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I didn't get a feeling of judgement. The only thing I could accuse you of would be "stirring the pot." Regardless, I thank you for bringing another perspective to the discussion. I suffer from a disease of perception, and need to be reminded that I'm not always "right."
Sent via the guys that made Star Trek low tech.
WAY TO GO Addicteduser!
I don't know much. But I do know this. All the Promises Do Come True.
Sometimes Quickly, Sometimes Slowly.
It kind of is relevant though in terms of use of the word "sober" in a broader societal context, rather than a clinical or legal one. Most of society uses it to describe the effects of harder drugs like ...... etc. It's one of those words that can carry different meanings based on the context.
Having said that, I'm lucky enough to have only ever had one bad addiction, nicotene. (and maybe caffeine too). The effects of harder drugs are so much more harsh than nic or caffeine I can't even imagine having a tougher addiction. I have nothing but the highest respect for people who have one of these harder addictions and manage to get clean and stay clean.
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I think that Context thing is Very Relevant in this Thread.
Someone who is in recovery, or is close to someone who is in recovery, is Very Likely going to view Sobriety very differently than someone who Isn't.
I also think that the OP Wasn't Really Looking for a Debate on the Technical Aspects of Dependency or the Symantec Definitions of being Sober.
I think he was just wanting to hear from Other People. And possible gain some Experience, Strength and Hope from them.
No doubt. I'd suggest that the term "the harder drugs" is misleading, though. Nicotine is pretty damn "hard." I think it's a real bad idea to think that nicotine is significantly different from any other drug people take.
I'd be really careful about jumping to conclusions. I've been very close to people in recovery over the years.
Context. No doubt. I'm not calling you "wrong," I'm just pointing out a practical reality. In a general sense sober applies to every drug, not just alcohol and illegal narcotics.
If you have been, then I find it Even More Confusing that you would Post Something like this.
BTW - My "Context" post Wasn't directed towards You or Any Individual Directly.
With the Exception that I Don't Think the OP was Looking for the Typical and Inevitable Outside "Debate" of the Meaning of Sobriety.
I suppose that is One way that an Individual could Define Sobriety.
Could there be More than One Way to use the Word Sobriety Surf?
Well, there's differences between almost all drugs in varying degrees. The difference between nic/caffiene and stuff like .... is that people don't rob, cheat, kill and steal to get nic/caffeine. Add to that how they affect your mental perceptions and I think there is some difference to talk about. I've had people close to me as well deal with stuff like ...... addiction. I may get jumpy and cranky if I don't get my nic, but I didn't break in and clean out a family member's entire house full of stuff to pawn it for a few hundred bucks to get my fix. People on ..... do do that kind of thing. And that's where the societal differentiation comes in and how the more common non technical use of the word sober is usually used.
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Yeah...
And I have Never heard of someone getting a DUI and Crashing there car while Being Under the Influence of Caffeine.
Or in a Drunken Rage Punching out Someone.
Or Loosing their Wife/Husband, Kids, Job and Self Worth because they Went to Starbucks too Much.
And I have Never heard of someone getting a DUI and Crashing there car while Being Under the Influence of Caffeine.
Or in a Drunken Rage Punching out Someone.
Or Loosing their Wife/Husband, Kids, Job and Self Worth because they Went to Starbucks too Much.
You're a lot sharper than that. Pav.
Here's how people would lie, cheat or steal for nicotine and caffeine: make them illegal. If you do they'll engender the EXACT same behavior as the other drugs.
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Pav could you please not reference specific names of substances in future posts. It can be a trigger for some, and I am attempting to keep those types of keywords out of the thread and out of search results here and on search engines.
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And again: you're trying to narrow definitions in order to let nicotine and caffeine off the hook. Attaching the consequences of alcohol use to the definition of "drug" is completely disinginuous. Lots of drugs don't cause you to black out or get a DUI or whatever, but they're still drugs.
Trying to make caffeine and nicotine into some kind of special case is nothing but rationalization. "We all LIKE these drugs, so they're not really drugs... at least not drugs like those big bad ones that I don't like."
Let's not feign innocence here. The definition of drug has nothing to do with whether or not it impaired you in such a way that you can no longer drive your car. The definition of a drug has to do with how it effects your brain chemistry. Period.
And that's why this thread is futile. We can't directly discuss the issue. That puts all of us at a serious disadvantage. No way to clarify our points without being more specific than the TOS allow.
Why don't we Just Leave it as Your Definition of what Sobriety Means to you is Different from what My Definition of Sobriety means to Me?
I'll even say that you are Right if that Makes you Feel Better.
BTW - Have you ever heard of Rule #62?
Thin skin today. Maybe the OUTSIDE isn't for you.
I'm not trying to redefine anything. I'm pointing out the actual definition of critical terms like "sober" and "intoxicated."
And yes, I know rule 62. I guess you forgot that debate is what we do here.
Your Right Surf.
You are Correct with Everything you have said and it Applies to ALL People, Places and Things.
And you are Right Also that this is what IS Done in the Outside. In just about Every OUTSIDE Thread I have seen Lately.
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