Something doesn't make sense to me

[sasa99]

Hello everyone

I'm new to all of this. For many years, I've been smokng Red Rothman's cigarettes, about a pack a day. On every box of Red Rothman's it says it "contains 0.6 mg of nicotine". I assume they're talking per cigarette, which means that every day I'm getting about 20 * 0.6 mg of nicotine in my body. This comes to 12 mg.

Now I've switched to ecigs (the Joye 510). I counted how many drops I'm putting in each time I fill up the CART the first time, and the number of drops comes to 24. Since 1 CC = 20 drops, that means filling up my 510 is putting into it 1.2 CC of juice.

Now, since I'm using a bottle (from Healthcabin) that says on it "11 mg", it means each fill up of my CART is putting in 1.2 * 11 mg of nicotine, or about 13 mg.

13 mg divided by 0.6 comes to 21.7 cigarettes, i.e. over a pack. That means that each time I fill it up from scratch, if I just use it when I want to curb my addiction, it should last for more than a day.

But something doesn't make sense, because 2 hrs of my using it randomly (using it when I feel the need to smoke) is enough to use up all of the oil in it, and there is no way I feel I smoked the equivalent of 22 Red Rothman cigarettes in those 2 hrs.

I don't understand this, but I can make a few guesses:

* some oil is staying in the polyfill or the atty (i.e. not all of the 24 drops are getting to my body)
* the drops coming out of the bottle are smaller than the drops they talk about when they say 20 drops is 1 CC.
* I'm smoking it too freely, i.e. even when my craving is not that strong
* I miss the other chemicals that were in my Red Rothman cigarettes, and I'm seeking extra nicotine as a way of compensating for it.

Would someone please help me with this?
Thank you

 

[mistinthewoods]

Another thing is absorption. I have read a study that said that vapor delivers about 1/10 the amount of nic to the blood stream as smoking. Burning the tobacco and inhaling the smoke is a much more effective nicotine delivery system.

 

[CaptJay]

If you are worried youre vaping too freely then put yourself on a timer (I dont think its necessary but I'm not worried lol). Give yourself a 5 min vape session so you have an 'actual end' time. Do this as often as you would have smoked.

Personally I don't think you can compare nic juce to cigarettes.
You're right they dont have all the extra chemicals - some people, especially heavy or long long time smokers, miss those more than nicotine. They work on the brain the same way anti-depressants do - so the people that TEND to miss them the most are ones who had an undiagnosed depression which they unkowingly self-medicated with cigarettes. That doesn't sound like you though, from your post.

Mist is right that PV dont deliver nicotine as 'efficiently' as cigarettes do. Millions of dollars went into cig research and they found a good system that enables nic to hit the brain in seconds of taking a smoke. PV don't do that - its more a steady drip of nicotine tht builds up and should eventually equal the amount you got on one or 2 cigs. To avoid vaping more than you want many people increase their nic level and smoke only a few times; others keep it low (or lowER) and vape a lot more because they enjoy the experience of smoking rather than craving nic.
Its also right that ejuice AS WITH CIGS doesn't give you the amount as stated as far as nic per mg goes. Cigs lose a lot of nic thorugh combustion and the lungs and kidneys filter a lot out. ejuice is the same but through vaporization instead of setting it on fire.

 

[ab357]

Personally I don't think you can compare nic juce to cigarettes.
You're right they dont have all the extra chemicals - some people, especially heavy or long long time smokers, miss those more than nicotine. They work on the brain the same way anti-depressants do - so the people that TEND to miss them the most are ones who had an undiagnosed depression which they unkowingly self-medicated with cigarettes. That doesn't sound like you though, from your post.

CaptJ,
I wonder if some of those chemicals may also cause depression or at least depression like symptoms? On one hand they include chemicals that can lead to depression, on the other they include chemicals that act as anti depressants. The combination playing havoc with your brain when you attempt to quit.

I know for me personally; whenever I attempted to quit before and this time when I went cold turkey a month or so before discovering e-cigs I would get depressed wondering how much longer could I go without a cig.

The only thing that may cause me a bit of depression now would be if it looked like e-cigs would be banned.

 

[mistinthewoods]

CaptJ,
The only thing that may cause me a bit of depression now would be if it looked like e-cigs would be banned.

That only bothers me in principal. There's ways around unjust laws.
Besides, ab, you don't even use nicotine. That's the only part of vaping that they could really put the screws to.

 

[ab357]

That only bothers me in principal. There's ways around unjust laws.
Besides, ab, you don't even use nicotine. That's the only part of vaping that they could really put the screws to.

You're right. The worst thing that could possibly happen is I would have to learn how to DIY mods and mix my own juices.

But of course, I would never break a law.

 

[mistinthewoods]

You're right. The worst thing that could possibly happen is I would have to learn how to DIY mods and mix my own juices.

But of course, I would never break a law.

If it comes down to it just PM me. I'll break THAT law for you. Gladly.

 

[ab357]

If it comes down to it just PM me. I'll break THAT law for you. Gladly.

I hope you don't get flamers since I've posted I'm a member of the Thin Blue Line social Group. Or my thread about box mods in public. LOL

 

[booker]

I don't understand this, but I can make a few guesses:

* some oil is staying in the polyfill or the atty (i.e. not all of the 24 drops are getting to my body)
* the drops coming out of the bottle are smaller than the drops they talk about when they say 20 drops is 1 CC.
* I'm smoking it too freely, i.e. even when my craving is not that strong
* I miss the other chemicals that were in my Red Rothman cigarettes, and I'm seeking extra nicotine as a way of compensating for it.

That's a 'yes' for all your questions, Sasa. Well, besides the first point - you don't vape oil, everything in e-liquid is water-dilutable, and actually any oil is a killer to the atomizer. But yes, typical poly-wadding does not wick totally, and about 1/3 of the liquid stays unused. That's why vapers are on endless search for the ideal cartridge filler some succeeded with Blue Foam or various cartridge-modification aka "mods", cartmods

And yes - the smoker is much addicted to effect of the tar and rest of nasty chemicals (my favs are arsenic and hydrogen cyanide aka Cyclone B). Since e-cigarette liquid doesn't have those, it doesn't provide the same satisfaction. Personally, during my first day of vaping I literally felt the abstinence effects, actually the same I always felt when dropping the cigarettes - even though I was vaping 24mg e-liquid! He he. That made me thinking as to what was I really addicted as a smoker - to the nicotine per-se, or to the rest of 4000-something toxines that comes with the cigarette smoke.

To my surprise, I had enough "smoking" satisfaction with 0mg liquid too. The trick was in the taste - it was extremely tasty to me

As to e-liquid strength. Whenever I vape stronger e-liquid for a whole day (ie 18mg) every time in the morning I fell the nicotine-hungover, a bit similar to the hungover one gets after smoking a lot of ciggys troughout a day.

 

[sasa99]

Another thing is absorption. I have read a study that said that vapor delivers about 1/10 the amount of nic to the blood stream as smoking. Burning the tobacco and inhaling the smoke is a much more effective nicotine delivery system.

Thanks, mistinthewoods. I didn't think of that. You've solved my problem.

And I also want to thank Booker. I had no idea that a third of the juice remains in the poly-wadding unused.

 

[The Fool]

Hi sasa99 and Welcome. I remember doing some similar math when I first started. I was a little worried that I might be getting too much nicotine. But, I've found that my body will tell me pretty quickly when I am vaping too much. I get dizzy, or nauseous or sometimes I get a slight headache, so I'll back off or reduce my nic level.

I smoked for 40 years, 2 1/2 packs a day. I now go through about 3ml of juice a day. I use the 901 3 part system.

I don't think I KNOW that there is a connection between smoking and depression. The longest period that I went not smoking was ended BY MY DOCTOR when I became so clinically depressed that they were talking about hospitalization. It was very scary. So for me, smoking was a quality of life issue (as large a contradiction as that sounds) and e-cigarettes has finally provided me with an alternative. YAAAAAAA!

 

[sasa99]

Thanks, that was very helpful. I never heard of the depression issue before.

Tell me, please, about the 3 ml you go thru per day - what strength is it?

 

[sasa99]

Also- About the 2 and a half packs you were smoking, how much nic was in each cigarette (or, which cig were you smoking)?

That way I can see how many regular cigarettes are covered by 3 cc of e-juice.

Thanks again

 

[Drozd]

so far the research has kind of indicated that the nic absorption rate is much slower with vaping and is about a tenth of what it would be in a regular cigarette..

so...someone going through 2ml of 24mg strength juice per day would likely be absorbing something like 4.8mg total for the day...

of course absorption rates could vary slightly person to person..

 

[sasa99]

Thanks, Drodz. I get it now.

 

[Al Vapone]

Hi Sasa99,

Yes, as others have noted, the nic absorption with vaping is much less, and after I have reviewed a recent scientific article, suprisingly low! So much so that vaping is barely giving a measurable amount of nic in the bloodstream. Here is the odd thing. My wife smoked Merit Ultralights, and she claims that 12 mg/ml ejuice is too strong for her. Me on the other hand smoked Djarum Light clove cigs. I never really felt much at all when vaping. In comparison, I told me wife that when I smoked cloves, even 5 drags would give me a buzz (and this is after 25 years of smoking them), while she said that she never got a buzz from smoking Merits. Weird is all I can say. Anyway, I'm breathing better, and that is a good thing, and I enjoy vaping.

 

[Hellen A. Handbasket]

Sasa - DVap's blog (and his posts) are the best thing I ever read for info. on what you did smoke and what strength of nicotine will probably work best for you when vaping.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/359-getting-mg-right-model.html

And for those of you who wonder (like I did) what is missing from vaping compared to smoking, check out:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/643-madame-psychosis-summary-pt-2.html I don't know why the link reads that... it is really Madame Psychosis Summary (Part 2) in DVap's blog. Weird! Link is right though.

Part 1 and Part 3 are there also (look for the links on the lower left of the page under Recent Entries).

 

[Bryce]

Thanks for posting the "whats missing from cigarettes" link Hellen! Amazing article.

 

[sasa99]

Hellen and Al – Hi, and thanks for your input.

Hellen, I'm pretty sure Dvap's 0.4 figure is wrong. Yesterday was my first day of not smoking. I only vaped. Over the course of the day, I inhaled e-juice that had 52 mg of NIC in it. My breathing got better and, more importantly, my appetite shot up, and an increased appetite can only mean I'm having a NIC withdrawal.

Yet Dvap says in the link you gave me that someone like me will not have a NIC withdrawal unless he inhales less than 25 mg of NIC a day, and I had 52 mg yesterday.

That's why I think the 0.4 figure he uses is wrong. It's more like 0.1, as mistinthewoods mentioned.

I admit there's a possibility that my increased appetite is coming from a withdrawal from the other things that are in a cigarette and not the NIC. That's possible. But until I see a link between those chemicals and the symptom of increased appetite, I'm assuming I'm in a NIC withdrawal state, and the 0.1 figure is correct. Especially since I feel my breathing is better and I'm vey nervous all the time.

 

[Al Vapone]

Hi Sasa99,

It is quite possible that vaping isn't keeping you satisfied for one reason or another. I think the most important thing to keep in mind is health. Do I like to smoke clove cigs (kreteks)? Sure. However, I definitely FEEL better in every other way vaping than I did with smoking, with the exception of that "feeling" after a few drags on an analog. The health issue alone has kept me going.

You may need a few analogs along with vaping to transition into a manageable state. If you do go this route, I would suggest starting at the lowest number of analogs possible - like 1 a day, maybe stretched out over a couple of sessions. Of course, trying out different juices to find one that gives you flavor/sensation satisfaction would also be a good way to help. Hang in there - it does get better!