Sore throat when switching to e salt nic?

[Mrez]

Has anyone experienced this when making the swifch from freebase nicotine to esalts? I've been vaping free base for years, usually on drippers in deeper subohm territory and fused or alien coils. Always found the vape to be smooth but very thick. After a bout of chest congestion and a minor sore throat and ear ache I decided to try switching to esalts juice. I got a small squonk, built some high resistance coils (1.2 and up) and got some strawberry cream type juices.

My sore throat was cleared up but it's come roaring back, along with some chest irritation. This is on top of lack of flavor I'm getting from the juices and harsh hit. I'm vaping at 3.9-4.2 volts with varying airflow. More restrictive then I'm used to. I'm using 25mg or 35mg juices. Lowest I can get.

Any thoughts as to what might be going on? My freebase nic levels were much lower. Is there somewhere that makes lower nic esalt based juice?

 

[ExtremeDooty]

I'm pretty sure that trying to sub-ohm 35mg juices is the cause of your sore throat along with coughing and some dizziness. I was not previously aware of this problem with buying salt nic juice. I checked several stores that I previously bought juice from and they were all selling 25 or 50 mg salt nic juice exclusively. These juices are meant for pod refills not sub-ohming. You could contact your current supplier and ask them to make a salt nic juice at a greatly reduced nicotine level. It's not a matter of "can they?" because they can. It's a matter of "will they?"
If you have a Brick and Mortar store they could make a salt nic juice at 3 or 6mg which would be suitable for sub-ohm vaping easily. But your best bet would be to DIY your own juice. I'm no chemist but I whip up 60mls of 6mg juice in just minutes. And I couldn't vape 6mg free base juice without choking. The salt nic cured that problem for me.
You should read through our DIY section for basic setup, juice components, recipes, and juice calculators. You'll be glad you did once you produce your first really tasty juice at whatever nicotine level you decide on.

 

[Mrez]

I'm not subohming the Esalts juice though. I have coils in the 1.2-1.4 range, and I'm using a very small squonker that hits at 3.9-4.2 volts...so very low wattages.

I'm starting to wonder if the concentration is just to high.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

I'm not subohming the Esalts juice though. I have coils in the 1.2-1.4 range, and I'm using a very small squonker that hits at 3.9-4.2 volts...so very low wattages.

I'm starting to wonder if the concentration is just to high.

Yes. too high mg/ml.

There is no reason to increase nic mg/ml going from free base to 'nic salts' unless your goal is to increase nicotine intake and effects.
Nic salt / protonated nicotine is smoother, less harsh, decreases throat hit, which makes vaping higher nic mg/ml liquids possible without the throat hit / harshness of free base nic at the same mg/ml.

 

[Mrez]

Yes. too high mg/ml.

There is no reason to increase nic mg/ml going from free base to 'nic salts' unless your goal is to increase nicotine intake and effects.
Nic salt / protonated nicotine is smoother, less harsh, decreases throat hit, which makes vaping higher nic mg/ml liquids possible without the throat hit / harshness of free base nic at the same mg/ml.

Damn, so basically unless I can find a vendor to make a lower concentration of nic salt..I'm kinda boned until i make my own? I like the form factor and low profile of the pods and my small EX squonker...but I don't think it will work well with freebase nic juice.

 

[bombastinator]

Another thought is possibly your medical issues don’t have anything to do with vaping one way or the other. Might be something else entirely.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Damn, so basically unless I can find a vendor to make a lower concentration of nic salt..I'm kinda boned until i make my own? I like the form factor and low profile of the pods and my small EX squonker...but I don't think it will work well with freebase nic juice.

Not necessarily, first a trip to the doctor to ensure whatever you had is fully over with or isn't returning / on going.

There isn't anything different between free base nic and nic salts that would prevent using either in any type of delivery device interchangeably at the same mg/ml.

Has anyone experienced this when making the swifch from freebase nicotine to esalts? I've been vaping free base for years, usually on drippers in deeper subohm territory and fused or alien coils. Always found the vape to be smooth but very thick. After a bout of chest congestion and a minor sore throat and ear ache I decided to try switching to esalts juice. I got a small squonk, built some high resistance coils (1.2 and up) and got some strawberry cream type juices.

My sore throat was cleared up but it's come roaring back, along with some chest irritation. This is on top of lack of flavor I'm getting from the juices and harsh hit. I'm vaping at 3.9-4.2 volts with varying airflow. More restrictive then I'm used to. I'm using 25mg or 35mg juices. Lowest I can get.

Any thoughts as to what might be going on? My freebase nic levels were much lower. Is there somewhere that makes lower nic esalt based juice?

From the above in bold.
Seems what changed was a new power device, using a new delivery device, using different resistance and new coil type, and airflow combined with a new e liquid.
All new / different from what you previously used. A completely different method of vaping.
There will be a learning curve when you change methods of vaping.

Most likely culprit other than medical is the something to do with a learning curve or some part(s) or build of the new stuff, could also be the new e liquid.

Low flavor & harsh hits no matter the the equipment used can be caused by dozens of different things that have little to nothing to do with the e liquid used.
Coil to wicking material surface area, wicking technique or material itself, coil or wire type, coil metal type, resistance, hotspots in coil, arcing, power range used, the list goes on and on...

Vaping a 1.2Ω coil in a squonker between 3.9v / 12.6w and 4.2 / 14.7w should be every bit as smooth & flavorful maybe not so thick most likely cooler / less harsh than when you were using your previous setup, if everything about your build in the squonker is set up to deliver what you want.

The Pg/Vg ratio, sweeteners & flavoring can cause reactions, throat & lung irritation and other issues.

I don't understand why you feel 'boned', there are hundreds of suppliers of e liquids in this country that offer all sorts of Pg/Vg combos, nic salts or free base in all sorts of mg/ml.

 

[ExtremeDooty]

With a little research, I found different juices at Directvapor.com that have options for 0-12mg salt nic. Take a look and see if you can find something you might like.

 

[Mrez]

I only felt "boned" because I wasn't aware that salt juices we're sold in lower doses then 25mg. I thought it was fairly standardized like the freebase where you got nic levels in only multiples three. I'm pretty positive given what kmI seeing, thst it's not my builds or device (since Ive never had an issue with my builds before) but it's going from 3mg-25/35mg. That and maybe my vaping technique (mouth through nose). I'm mostly interested in keeping a low power/low profile device that can give me a nic fix without burning my throat. I'll see about tracking down a lower nic level esalt. Maybe 6-10 or something like that.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

For all practical & functional purposes nic salt/protonated nic and free base are no different.
3 mg/ml is the same standardized unit of measure containing the same 3 milligrams of nicotine per milliliter.

The difference is salt nic is ph modified which reduces harshness/throat hit and in higher concentrations eliminates or reduces the peppery taste some free base nic can have.

If you normally vape 3mg/ml free base and are satisfied with the vape quality, the difference if any you may notice when using 3mg/ml nic salt is slightly less throat hit.
If what you're after is the same TH as the 3mg/ml free base you might have to go up to 6 maybe 8mg/ml.

 

[Mrez]

For all practical & functional purposes nic salt/protonated nic and free base are no different.
3 mg/ml is the same standardized unit of measure containing the same 3 milligrams of nicotine per milliliter.

The difference is salt nic is ph modified which reduces harshness/throat hit and in higher concentrations eliminates or reduces the peppery taste some free base nic can have.

If you normally vape 3mg/ml free base and are satisfied with the vape quality, the difference if any you may notice when using 3mg/ml nic salt is slightly less throat hit.
If what you're after is the same TH as the 3mg/ml free base you might have to go up to 6 maybe 8mg/ml.

If I'm understanding this correctly then, if the two types of nicotine are equivalent, then the side effects I'm feeling are very likely due to going from 3mg to 35mg nicotine.

As to what effect I'm looking for, I wanted to change to a more subdued vape in terms of clouds, and rig size, while still getting a satisfying smooth vape. I specifically avoided going with the all in one systems because the thought of having to purchase unreliable stock coils bugged the hell out of me when I already know how to make my own. I specifically wanted small form factor, more of a stealth vape, but still satisfying enough to quell the nic urges. Various articles I read suggested switching to Esalts, and several others suggested the Vandy Vape Ex and some of the smaller air restricted Squonk atomizers. I currently have an Ammit on it, but when I try it with my 3mg thick freebase juice, I dont really get anything from it. The nic salt at 25-35 is to much. I wonder if I should go to my regular juice company, order their juice in 25, then cut it in half with the same flavor in 0 mg.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Yes going from 3mg/ml to 35 mg/ml is an enormous jump in nicotine and most likely the cause of harshness & sore throat.
It could also be a lingering or reoccurrence of the illness you spoke of.

Going from 3 mg/ml to 25 or 35mg/ml is 8 to 10.5 times more nicotine, of course there will be side effects.
That's like if you normally eat 1 slice of pizza, then one day you started eating 8 to 10.5 slices, you're going to notice a difference and there will be side effects.

It is surprising you're not having other symptoms of nic OD / nic sick.

I'm really lost when you mention all in one & stock coils, no one is knocking or blaming the new setup, there is nothing wrong with or inadequate about your new setup.

Like I said previously, you changed your entire method of vaping - your new setup is entirely different including the e liquid. .

Lower power, higher resistance, different coil type, different liquid = different results than your previous setup until you experiment with & figure out all the tweaks & tunes to make it work the way you want it to.

Is the Pg/Vg ratio of the new nic salt liquid the same as your free base?
More Pg more throat hit / harshness

 

[Vapntime]

The ECF myth is in good stead here. Freebase and salt nic are not equivalent lol. Also could be allergic to one of the salt acids like benzoic acid
NicSalt Nicotine Salt; 1kg | CHEMNOVATIC

New! Nicotine malate salt. - CHEMNOVATIC

Someone really needs to contact a manufacturer here at ECF so there is a 'credible source' lol. You are putting this into your lungs and body and seem to have no idea that it is a different chemical to freebase nicotine.

 

[Vape1048]

I had same issue when I went to high nic salts (mine was only 25 mg but it was too much for how often i vape). I went exclusively back to Stay Salty liquids, which has nic salts in 3 and 6 mg. All the perks of nic salt without the harsh throat hits, dizziness, and feeling of malaise while subohming it.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

The point being milligram per milliliter is an accurate standardized unit of measure.
The number of milligrams represents the amount of nicotine in milligrams present in 1 milliliter of base.

milligram = a unit of mass equal to one thousandth of a gram.
milliliter = a unit of liquid volume equal to one thousandth of a liter.

You are correct, acids are used, to chemically alter freebase nicotine using the process of protonation to lower pH.
The lowered pH is the cause of the different physical characteristics - decreased throat hit, mild to unnoticeable taste.
The claims of ' longer stronger effects & more bio available' are not quantifiable without the consumer having base line cotinine tests when using freebase nic to compare with the cotinine level in their individual system after using nic salts.

In raw unusable form for vaping (concentrate), nic salts does contain less nic and more other compounds than freebase per equal measure. mass.
In raw unusable form for vaping (concentrate), freebase contains more nicotine than nic salts per equal measure.mass.

When diluting in base to produce a useable form for vaping, more nic salt concentrate (depending on lab results) must be used in solution due to other compounds it contains ( compounded into its mass )to arrive at the 1mg/ml measure.

If you're concerned about the 'chemicals' used to protonate nicotine to make Nic Salt and how they react with or effect your system,,, you have a legitimate point.

In finished ready to vape e liquids 1mg/ml of nicotine is 1mg/ml of nicotine, meaning each milliliter of liquid contains 1 milligram of nicotine.

To state otherwise is to claim e liquid manufactures are knowingly, possibly dangerously, falsely labeling and advertising the nicotine mg/ml content of their liquids.

 

[Vapntime]

Sorry mate it represents the nicotine salt strength 100mg/ml nicotine benzoate for example. Call a manufacturer not a supplier and have a chat to a professional.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

No need to.
One of my sister in laws is a forensic chemist that also vapes, with a masters, and 35+ years of experience, I'll take her word based on her knowledge & experience over interweb chatter, marketing hype and rumor.

I agree, in raw concentrated form, nic salts & free base are chemically different.

I could be misunderstanding what you're saying, but, it seems as if you're saying standardized units of measure accepted world wide used to accurately express mass & volume don't apply to nicotine concentrations.

When the nicotine units are expressed to describe finished ready to vape e liquids, the nicotine mg/ml identifies the nicotine itself, not other / added compounds found in nic salts, because those are not nicotine. Lab results would show various base acids and nicotine in nic salts, and show nicotine free of base in freebase nic.

This topic is just something else to argue about, I've said my piece.

Have a good day.

 

[Shadav]

there are a lot of places that sell nic salts in low levels, I vaped 3mg nic salts from verdict vapor
find a better vendor
the higher nic salts are really more for pod devices where you are going to vape less but still get enough nic in your system.

 

[Mrez]

Yes going from 3mg/ml to 35 mg/ml is an enormous jump in nicotine and most likely the cause of harshness & sore throat.
It could also be a lingering or reoccurrence of the illness you spoke of.

Going from 3 mg/ml to 25 or 35mg/ml is 8 to 10.5 times more nicotine, of course there will be side effects.

It is surprising you're not having other symptoms of nic OD / nic sick.

Like I said previously, you changed your entire method of vaping - your new setup is entirely different including the e liquid.

Is the Pg/Vg ratio of the new nic salt liquid the same as your free base?
More Pg more throat hit / harshness

Actually come to think of it I was having some other noticable side effects from the nic. Mostly some anxiety or restlessness at night the first couple days and some weight loss. As for the pg/VG ratios, my free base juice is probably in the 70-80 VG range. I remember back when I first started vaping I had felt harshness from the higher pg juices. I believe my esalt juices are higher in pg to be able to move through a tank easier. I completely forgot about that when I bought everything.

 

[Mrez]

I had same issue when I went to high nic salts (mine was only 25 mg but it was too much for how often i vape). I went exclusively back to Stay Salty liquids, which has nic salts in 3 and 6 mg. All the perks of nic salt without the harsh throat hits, dizziness, and feeling of malaise while subohming it.

How do you find the lower nic esalts compare to the free base? I'm specifically not looking to subohm as I'd like something a little more subdued. Did you try them at higher resistance coil levels?