Specific question about proctected batteries

[paulberger]

Hello all,

I haven't been quite successful in finding reliable info on this, so please excuse me asking the experts on this.

I am considering getting a small epipe for the "vaping on the go without being stared at" problem. The smok one is fully mech, however.

I have so far been careful about mech mods because of the obvious reasons. Now if I use a sub-ohmed build with 18650s I easily recognise the voltage drop a few draws before my vision deus kicks in telling me to charge. However, I fear I wouldn't notice this on a build for cigarette style vaping (mouth draw, high nic, about 1.5 Ohm coil etc.). Subjective experience just varies way too much on this setup throughout the day.

Now my question is about the protection in batteries:
Is it a one time thing - like a fuse - or is it something reusable, i.e. one can just vape until the battery kicks out, recharge and repeat?
(I have some protected Efest gold 900mas that would do the job, but I don't want to have anything go boomboom in my face..)

Thanks for the reply, sorry again for the long question that one should be able to answer via google but I'd rather be safe than scarface.

Cheers
Paul

 

[KenD]

To my understanding the protection circuit sets a limit for the amp draw (if it works correctly), it doesn't protect against over drain. Furthermore, protected batteries are of a more volatile chemistry and have low discharge ratings. More of a risk of battery failure, even with the protection circuit, and potentially catastrophic failure. Don't use protected batteries, go for high discharge safer chemistry batteries.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[paulberger]

Thanks! So there basically is no way to have a battery self-shutoff when voltage gets low in a mech mod?

I also have some IMR 350s so I guess I could use those and switch them based on time vaped instead of anything noticeable.

 

[Kemosabe]

if the mod can fit it, you could use a Kick to help you notice when the battery gets weak (low voltage). i think youre confusing protection with low voltage. low voltage just means the battery is becoming depleted on its charge, and its a normal occurrence- as long as you dont deeply discharge it (which is below 3V, well below even). protection is what kicks in when the battery's load is exceeding its amperage ability (ie putting too low of a resistance atty on a non-high drain battery, like a protected battery for example), and it is Not a normal occurrence. drawing too much power at one time can trigger the protection circuit. depleting your battery at a normal/safe pace would not trigger the protection circuit (as long as there were no short circuits or other similar problems). voltage and amperage are totally different. studying ohms law might help you understand details.

but anyway, IMO, you would certainly notice when your voltage got low on a mech even without the use of a Kick. especially with a resistance over 1Ω. its very noticeable IMO, even moreso than it is with sub-ohm setups. with my style of vaping, i consider anything near or over 1Ω on a mech an extremely weak hit (unless the nic% is high). so with something that is already a weak hit, as the battery gets depleted, its getting even weaker and is very noticeable. IMO youd notice the weakness long before you discharged your battery to even the normal depleted range (3.2V - 3.7V), nevermind the deeply discharged range (<3V).

edit: these are also fuses on the market to protect your batteries. if you dont plan on going too high on your amp draw, which sounds like is the case, you could get a vape safe or a 2c fuse. once you get used to mechs, you might find the fuse to be unnecessary but some continue to use it just for that extra added level of protection.

 

[paulberger]

Thanks for the detailed and long answer!

My concern or theory was, based on Ohm's law, that reduced Voltage would mean higher Amp Draw in percent so a protection circuit could kick in, but steam-engine just showed me that I would basically have to go down to below 0.5 Volts to max out the headroom of a 700ma battery.

So basically, an IMR battery can't vent gases or go boom even when vaped down to 2V or so? (Hypothetically, to be safe..)

I have a very varied experience on a regulated Mod with the cigarette like setup, first few draws after a while have awesome throathit, but later in the day or evening it can feel weak to the point of nonexistence, hence my worrying...

 

[d4gger]

I think you'll find your vape gets worthless below 3.4V (resting voltage) or so, regardless of coil resistance.

Notably though, if you ever manage to discharge a battery below 2.5V, you have damaged it. It won't explode for putting out the energy under normal load, but it will lose capacity and therefore have a lower CDR.

 

[Kemosabe]

as voltage goes down, so does amp draw.

going down to 0.5V on any battery would render it practically useless. you dont want to go down below 2.5V. in fact you really dont want to go down below 3 or even 3.2v. smart chargers can reactivate deeply discharged cells, but its not safe to make a practice of it- and not cost effective either. the battery will never be the same after being deeply discharged.

IMR/INR battery chemistry does indeed vent if pushed too hard. they do not tend to explode however (like protected batts do). venting is not nearly as violent as explosion, obviously. but if you do vent a battery, its toast.

the weak TH/non-existent hit you reference is not cause for worry. its simply a reminder that you need to recharge. its always ok to charge, you wont harm a lithium battery by charging it normally. you can charge a lithium battery at 80% remaining voltage and be fine. in fact, lithium batteries prefer a shallow charge. 50% is the ideal depletion to charge a lithium batt, but anywhere higher than that is fine too. basically anywhere from 3.2V and up feel free to charge them up. back in the day, when nickel batts were the majority rechargeables, you wanted to deplete the battery before charging as to not harm its internal "memory" aka capacity. this is not the case with lithium. much the opposite, in fact.

one little device you might find useful (i have found mine to be invaluable) is the Cell Mate battery tester. marble valley vapes is the only place i know of that stocks them (i think they invented the device). its inexpensive. its basically a multi-meter that only reads voltage. but its so much handier than a multimeter. i use mine all the time and if it broke, i would buy a new one in a heartbeat. if youre nervous that youre discharging your battery to an unsafe level, just pop out the batt, give it a quick test on the tester, and boom you Know. and knowing is half the battle GI Joe american hero!

 

[Baditude]

"Protected" ICR batteries are considered to be obsolete for mod use. Use only "unprotected" IMR (lithium manganese) batteries. IMR batteries can still vent hot gas, but are unlikely to cause flames or explode like LiPo or ICR batteries can. The problem with any battery venting gas in a mod is: does it have adequate ventilation holes to allow the gas to escape? If not, that mod can become a pipe bomb.

Battery Basics for Mods

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries

Explain It To the Noob: Ohm's Law Calculations