Stacked 18350 in Vamo - Voltage Regulation Method? Provari-like Vape?

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c00lkatz

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To start off, I am no electronics engineer, just someone asking a question. If any of this sounds dumb, then please correct me or lead me in the right direction.

Okay, so I've been doing some research as to what makes the Provari's power regulation so great compared to cheaper regulated mods. I do not own a Provari, but I do own a Vamo and eVic. Please note, this has nothing to do with build quality, but with the voltage regulation circuitry and how it affects vape quality.

I've read the Provari on an Oscope thread, and how the Provari regulates voltage versus a Vamo. The Vamo shoots up to 6V and then varies the duration of the pulse to achieve a particular voltage, whereas the Provari boosts voltage and then regulates it at a much finer rate resulting in a much flatter line.

According to this post here on another forum, you can achieve a similar effect by stacking two 3.7V batteries and then regulating down to the desired voltage. According to that poster, there would be no difference between this and a Provari.

Which got me wondering, how DOES the Vamo regulate voltage with stacked batteries in series totaling 7.4/8.4V (off full charge) versus its normal method with a single 3.7/4.2V battery? Does it simply take that higher voltage and then regulate it down? Does it have a separate circuit that it switches to when it senses the increase in voltage?

I know that according to Pbusardo's review of the Vamo, it can not put out more than 11 or 12W using only a single battery, it simply doesn't have enough power to work with. To get the full 15W, you must stack batteries. Same power output as an eVic with a single battery, except the eVic doesn't accept stacked batteries and can not achieve a higher power output (probably due to the same thing). A little off-topic, but as far as eVic vs Vamo, without stacked batteries they should be about the same, especially considering the Vamo's resistance measurement usually reads higher than it should, resulting in more voltage and more power than what you asked for, whereas when compared to the eVic's more accurate measurement, would make the Vamo seem more powerful or the eVic seem weaker given the same power setting..but if you bump the power on the eVic so that it's the same voltage that the Vamo is giving the atty/carto, they taste the same. But I digress...

Other posters on this forum, including myself, DO notice a difference between stacked versus single batteries in a Vamo. I don't think this is placebo. There is a clear difference between the two. Me personally I notice a less harsh but fuller, richer vape, and of course the power is there when I crank it up, easily. The flavor is better, the vapor production goes up, and it is a much more satisfying vape, all at the same power setting, using the same atomizer, even if the power setting is below the 11/12W limit of a single battery. Stacked batteries just work better.

Now I have never had the chance to vape a Provari, so I do not have that to compare to, but from what I've read the differences in vape quality are similar on a Provari and single vs stacked batteries on a Vamo.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?
 

vietstuh

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2 stacked 350s works wayyyyy better than a single 650. I always use 350s stacked except whenever they die then I use the 650s. honestly i'm not sure how accurate the regulator chip in the vamo is because one time i tried stacking 3 batteries because I was just curious. I had it at 3v on rms vaping a 3ohm carto and it felt like I was vaping it 7v.
 

Thrasher

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it is much easier to maintain the power output when stacking then always regulating the power DOWN to the 4 v range.
whereas the regulation PLUS a booster circuit has to come into play when trying to get more from a standard 3.7v battery and if its not efficient or boosting the battery with some amount of precision the resulting vape will show the difference.

on top of this the provari has a self calibrating regulation circuit, meaning it always checks to make sure the voltage dialed in is the actual voltage being sent to the atty no matter the resistance or voltage setting and will adjust itself. not all regulation circuits are created equal.
 

Rader2146

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The VAMO in 2x18350 mode produces the same PWM signal as in 1x 18xxx mode. The vape is going to be the same (except for slightly hotter in 2x mode due to calibration error). The regulator just skips the boost stage and goes into the buck stage.

The frequency of the Provari is irrelevant. For all practical purposes, it has no frequency. It's DC voltage with a bit of ripple.

There is some relevance to the frequency argument though, but I dont think it's completely relevant to this thread. I'm going to post my thought in the Provari on an Oscope thread if you care to read them.

Last thing...the "self calibrating regulation circuit" of the Provari is nothing special. It's called a feedback circuit, and it's what makes a voltage regulator a "regulator". All regulators must know what the output is, otherwise it's just a converter. It is very true that some do this better than others, but a rose by any other name is just good marketing.
 

UncleChuck

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coolkats,

Rader summed it up great. The Provari and cheaper mods use the same method to regulate output, the difference is how well they achieved it.

As he said, the Provari has a basically flat output signal. The Vamo, Zmax, SVD, etc don't have a flat output signal, but it has nothing to do with the batteries, it's simply down to how the output is regulated.

With a frequency low enough (such as the 33hz chip) you can hear the coil cycling through the voltage spikes, and just like many other people I can detect this in the quality of the vapor. The higher the frequency the more similar the PWM gets to behaving like straight battery output.

3.7v on a 33hz chip is NEVER going to be like 3.7v on an unregulated device, or on a high-frequency device such as the Provari.

Using stacked batteries simply eliminates the need for the control unit to boost the voltage, it only has to pulse it to provide a lower overall voltage to the coil. This doesn't do anything to fix the issue with the low frequency pulses, though, which is what I think you are getting at.
 

c00lkatz

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Thank you for the feedback everyone, I think I understand a bit better now. So the stacked batteries allow the regulator to skip the boost portion and just concentrate on regulating, which it still does the same way, and is still inferior to the Provari's flatter "DC-like" output and greater accuracy. This probably helps with the efficiency of the regulator, which would account for the increase in performance, but it's still at a much lower frequency and accuracy than the Provari. I do still notice the "rattlesnake" sound that the Vamo produces even with stacked batteries, so this makes sense.

Now the eVic I do not notice any "rattlesnake" sound at all, it's a pretty steady hiss, but from what I've seen it's still not a very accurate regulator either and can't handle higher current draw as well. Set to the same voltage though, it's very similar to the Vamo without the rattlesnake effect, until you stack batteries in the Vamo. Then the Vamo wins in the performance department, from my own side by side testing and in my own opinion.

I guess I just need to get my hands on a Provari and try it out. A few local B&M stores carry them, hopefully they'll let me try it, don't know anyone who has one.
 

c00lkatz

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If I didn't loathe Dallas traffic, I would get up there and check out those B&M's myself.

Lol I know what you mean. Luckily more and more vapor shops are starting to stay open late. I think Vaporescence is the only one now that closes at 6pm M-F and isn't open on Sunday (but about all they have are mech mods and cartos/carto tanks). Dragonfly in Vista Ridge Mall in Lewisville is open until 9PM, I think DFW Vapor is 7PM and Posh Vapor is 8PM, all open on Sunday as well. Dragonfly has Provari's (starting at $250 :shock:) and DFW Vapors I believe has them as well (but they like to sell knock-off gear soooo...). I know there are a few others I haven't hit up yet, they may have them as well.
 

tc1

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Rader2146:8951875 said:
The VAMO in 2x18350 mode produces the same PWM signal as in 1x 18xxx mode. The vape is going to be the same (except for slightly hotter in 2x mode due to calibration error). The regulator just skips the boost stage and goes into the buck stage.

The frequency of the Provari is irrelevant. For all practical purposes, it has no frequency. It's DC voltage with a bit of ripple.

There is some relevance to the frequency argument though, but I dont think it's completely relevant to this thread. I'm going to post my thought in the Provari on an Oscope thread if you care to read them.

Last thing...the "self calibrating regulation circuit" of the Provari is nothing special. It's called a feedback circuit, and it's what makes a voltage regulator a "regulator". All regulators must know what the output is, otherwise it's just a converter. It is very true that some do this better than others, but a rose by any other name is just good marketing.

Great post.
 

c00lkatz

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ok rader, i have a question then. does the vamo regulate down accurately when I stack 3 18350s? i stacked 3 and it was putting out an extreme amount of power..

Can't answer your question specifically, but I would be careful stacking 3 batteries. In series that's a potential 12.6V coming off a full charge, and the components on the Vamo may not be able to take it. Who knows what they're rated for, and 12.6V could do some damage, if not immediately then certainly over time...how long would depend on what they're rated for.

Judging by rader's original response, it seems the Vamo becomes even less accurate with 8.4V, which is what causes the extra power in the first place. With 12.6V that accuracy is going to depreciate even more.
 

kscoggins

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Lol I know what you mean. Luckily more and more vapor shops are starting to stay open late. I think Vaporescence is the only one now that closes at 6pm M-F and isn't open on Sunday (but about all they have are mech mods and cartos/carto tanks). Dragonfly in Vista Ridge Mall in Lewisville is open until 9PM, I think DFW Vapor is 7PM and Posh Vapor is 8PM, all open on Sunday as well. Dragonfly has Provari's (starting at $250 :shock:) and DFW Vapors I believe has them as well (but they like to sell knock-off gear soooo...). I know there are a few others I haven't hit up yet, they may have them as well.

I bought my Provari at Dragonfly because they were the only local shop that carried them then... My wife wanted one so we went to look at them. I wasn't intending on buying one for myself but they let me try one and I was sold.
 
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