State ecig legislation that is NOT progressing well.

[sofarsogood]

It's not all bad news. Apparently State legislation against e-cigs is having tough going in a lot of places. This should cheer you up a little.

Extras on Excise: E-Cigarettes Play Roadrunner to State Tax Bills

"Though 2015 started with a bang with several state legislators filing e-cigarette tax bills, the sound being made so far is “Meep! Meep!” as e-cigarettes evade the Acme anvil of legislation."

 

[caramel]

" FDA itself is genuinely struggling over how treat the products. "

Anyone here buying that?

 

[this is my name]

" FDA itself is genuinely struggling over how treat the products. "

Anyone here buying that?

Nope. I feel certain their minds are made up. I won't pretend to know to what end but I don't think any of us are going to like it.

 

[stevegmu]

The taxes and 'bans' never pass and the FDA still hasn't done anything, and won't for years. What's new?

 

[Alto101]

The taxes and 'bans' never pass and the FDA still hasn't done anything, and won't for years. What's new?

Steve, you really need to keep current. All kinds of awful things are on the verge of passing in Indiana. Perhaps you were not aware?...

 

[stevegmu]

Maybe some of these proposals will pass one day; but it seems they never do, or aren't as bad as made out to be by the vendors...

 

[Alto101]

Maybe some of these proposals will pass one day; but it seems they never do, or aren't as bad as made out to be by the vendors...

Steve is allowed to his/her own opinion but I am glad there are a lot of people that fight these crap bills and get the bills either watered down or sometimes not passed. The sole reason that there aren't more bills actually being passed is the hard work of so many people who give up their time and money to fight them.

 

[sofarsogood]

I suspect the FDA is struggling and there are fierce ideological debates inside the walls and not much debate about the science. As we know ecigs are potentially the biggest advance in public health since polio vacine or anti biotics. They know that too. They also know they could start another drug war and a lot of other trouble with the wrong measures.

I also think that vapers turning out for committee meetings and being active in social media is making a difference on state and local stuff. In theory the FDA is supposed to be science based, not driven by the mob. We know that, they know that. Time will tell.

 

[philoshop]

Citizens speaking out loudly against what they consider to be oppressive government. It's the very foundation of the US of A.
If the government can't handle the pressure from it's citizens they need to look elsewhere to set up shop.

 

[DrMA]

CA and WA are still and play and the progressive nannies are gaining ground. They are also relentless and all these bills (and more) will resurface next year, quite possibly with a vengeance. Now is the time to step up the fight, and actually bring the fight to them.

I'm hoping between now and the next legislative session we can expose the TC lies and malpractice and bring down the entire cabal. We can do it, we have the numbers and the evidence. If only more of the 4.3 million vapers in the US (25 million worldwide) would advocate, we could have the sanctimonious parasites tried and prosecuted by Christmas.

 

[Jman8]

I'm hoping between now and the next legislative session we can expose the TC lies and malpractice and bring down the entire cabal. We can do it, we have the numbers and the evidence. If only more of the 4.3 million vapers in the US (25 million worldwide) would advocate, we could have the sanctimonious parasites tried and prosecuted by Christmas.

A Festivus for the rest of us.

 

[DC2]

CA and WA are still and play and the progressive nannies are gaining ground. They are also relentless and all these bills (and more) will resurface next year, quite possibly with a vengeance. Now is the time to step up the fight, and actually bring the fight to them.

That's really the point that some (one) fails to recognize...

Whether these bills pass or not, they keep on coming back every year.
They WILL keep on trying, and bills will keep getting worse.

You'd have to be blind not to see that happening.

They just need a little more propaganda to push things over the edge.
Which is why there is more and more propaganda every day.

Welcome to the new world, same as the old world...
Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger

 

[Jman8]

We clearly have the evidence, and the numbers, but I don't see how that will work in our favor when other side has lots of money and ability to have lies seem like truth.

How is this different than the smoking fight? People here might wish to argue that smoking is worse for you, horrible for you, blah blah blah. If really up for that debate, I'm glad to enter into it, to show anyone what we are up against. I'll be coming from side as 'not as bad as you have been lead to believe,' and you get to come from side of, 'only so much propaganda I will share with you before I tire of your reluctance to accept "facts" and are therefore not worth discussing this with.' For, if I call you out on ANY of your so called facts, you'll resort to what CDC or AHA or some other anti-tobacco propaganda entity has lead you to believe is 100% accurate, and EVEN THEN, I will want to continue the debate / discussion. For EVEN THEN, I see the methodology and actual science as highly debatable.

To not see this as very relevant to eCig fight is IMO, to not be seeing the eCig fight accurately. To the degree there are (significant) differences, depends only on who one is interacting with at a given time, but not on the principles at work. If a lie can be told and then not defended easily by science, but instead is deemed, "not worthy of debate," then how is the side opposing that supposed to overcome the issue in say the next 3 to 12 months?

I truly believe our side needs to engage in deceptive tactics. Hopefully in a strategic way, but once lying is on the table, it will confuse a whole bunch of people that would otherwise have been supporters. I get that. I don't like to lie at all, even a little bit, but when it comes to a propaganda war and where lying is clearly on the table (and has been for 50 or so years), then it seems like the truth teller has 2 choices: engage in same tactic in hopes that reasonable people that wish to hang around for the long battle will stop/pause on such tactics; or not engage in the battle at all, which to some fellow vapers may show up as apathetic. But thus far the good doers of vaping (glad to name names if need be) are delivering a political vaping community that is constantly under attack and by THEIR OWN ACCOUNT it is getting worse. And we are to be the side that only plays by rules of fairness and honesty.

How's that working out for us?

 

[KattMamma]

I understand what you're saying jman, it's hard to continue on fighting fairly when they keep cheating and lying.

But if we try to fight lies with lies, then any credibility we have goes out the window.

Our best hope is to expose their lies and show that we have the truth on our side.

 

[Jman8]

I understand what you're saying jman, it's hard to continue on fighting fairly when they keep cheating and lying.

But if we try to fight lies with lies, then any credibility we have goes out the window.

Our best hope is to expose their lies and show that we have the truth on our side.

I like this hope, it will not work in politics. In science, it can and I think will work.

This means that we will get railroaded. I think everyone already knows this, but not everyone accepts this and thinks in the next 3 to 12 months if certain things go our way, we will win. IMO, we could have everyone in the entire country, but 1% (of whom are ANTZ) be vapers, and in the political reality that seeks to keep it legally open and available (like what we have now), will lose.

I'll note that because I'm not so prone to lying, I'm not sure what I even mean by that, but I don't mean to lie about vaping. Except, I do think that if lying is on table from our side, then it won't matter what I think is within bounds or out of bounds. Some will lie about vaping. I would say lie about smoking (or really tell the truth about it, but to antis and most people it will come across as lying). Example: smoking hasn't killed anyone. If that strikes "you" as completely untrue, then well, consider yourself as having a little ANTZ philosophy well ingrained into your belief system. Or lie about CDC and AHA and the like. These lies are meant to be of the malicious variety. But our credibility is only, so far, working for us, for I'm fairly certain none of my non-vaping friends have any idea, at all, who the major players are on the vaping side of the equation, but do know (and trust everything that is said by) the CDC.

If I spout off about CDC, it isn't likely to amount to much. But if vapers collectively and strategically spouted off about CDC in a way that is malicious, is deceptive and is meant to work in our favor, it could make some people think about what the CDC is really up to. Just as the truth ought to, but thus far is not working to our advantage. Thus, I see a well placed lie getting more attention.

And is exactly how I see our opposition working and has been doing so for 50+ years. It's not like they have been up to this just since vaping has been around. And because they have convinced overwhelming majority of vapers about their smoking stuff, then it just adds fuel to the fire of what they can say and never be questioned about it.

 

[KattMamma]

I understand. And yes, I know how they demonized smoking using manipulation and lies, and I know it's not nearly as bad for you as most people think it is, because they've been brainwashed.

But I still refuse to lie. The smoking thing happened when we didn't have the internet on our side. Now it should be much easier to spread the truth and expose them for what they are. I think this may be one of the main reasons many of the state bans and regulations are getting shelved til next year - They can't figure out how to do this and not look like the complete money-grubbing power hungry liars that they are.

Maybe some media stunts or protests are in order, to get more attention to what's happening.

 

[choochoogranny]

Maybe some posters declaring this organization funded by big pharma.....or in another case by big tobacco. How about "Chantix Killed 550 people"......."California needs smokers' tax money"..........We need "visuals"......We need short and sweet......We need people on the street making a big noise protesting!!!!

We need to put in dollar amount how much states want to tax each 15 ml or 30 ml juice. So many don't or won't multiply the cents per ml amount to get the bottle amount cost. Big posters up in shops showing what the proposed tax would cost per bottle and having xerox sheets to hand out to customers with Reps. and Sens. addresses, phone numbers and web sites. Govenors included.

I'm beginning to think that the younger generation uses the internet merely for the social aspect and not for info gathering and aren't as aware as they could be about what's going on.

 

[philoshop]

As vaping advocates we don't have much, if anything, to lie about. Pointing out the lies and general tactics of deception being used by the anti's should be enough.
That a huge number of people still believe in the beneficence of the government is the biggest hurdle to overcome.

 

[stevegmu]

People who vote for the wrong candidates is the biggest issue to overcome. They are the ones who helped create this society. Most people on here who vote voted for those who would push such legislation and will vote for them again...

 

[DC2]

That a huge number of people still believe in the beneficence of the government is the biggest hurdle to overcome.

Well, that, and the belief in the veracity of the mainstream media.