Sucralose vs. Stevia: is it time for a new sweetener, Geoff?

[Steamin' E.]

I must preface this post with the admission that I have never vaped a liquid containing either Sucralose or liquid Stevia extract. Those who have tried one or the other -- or both -- are obviously encouraged to weigh in with their opinion.

I think my first concern about Sucralose is what it is composed of. It is an organochlorine (I believe that's the correct term) that is basically a molecule of standard table sugar (sucrose) chemically bonded to three chlorine molecules. This is not at all to suggest that inhaling it would be anything akin to inhaling chlorine gas as I sincerely doubt the chemical bond would be broken by the tepid temps associated with vaping. Indeed, my primary concern stems not from Sucralose's potential side-effects but from the fact that Sucralose's "sugar skeleton" may be gumming up our cartos and atties.

I would like to suggest that TV experiment with some different vendors of pure liquid stevia extract. Stevia, for the uninitiated, is an herb that has been used as a sweetener by people in South America for the past 1,500 years. It is also a traditional Amazonian diabetes treatment. According to what I've read, some companies have managed to completely eliminate Stevia's characteristic aftertaste in their liquid extract preparations.

A 2 oz. bottle of liquid Stevia can be expensive (anywhere from 13 to 50 dollars) , but since it's hundreds of times sweeter than sugar, very little (perhaps between 1/2 drop - 2 drops) would need to be added to a 30mL bottle of e-liquid. It would cost at most 1 penny per drop. Here are some links to stores that sell liquid stevia extract:

https://www.healthyshopping.com/stores/ProductCategory.asp?CId=190

NOW Foods - Stevia Liquid Extract - 2 oz.

Stevia Liquid

https://nunaturals.com/product/98

There are many more, and they're growing in number as more and more health-conscious people discover this unique alternative to caloric and artificial sweeteners.

One great web source for further information on Sucralose and Stevia is Natural Health Information Articles and Health Newsletter by Dr. Joseph Mercola

 

[hairball]

When I diy'd, I only used stevia to sweeten some of my juices. I didn't care for the sucralose. I never had any problems with stevia and sometimes add it to vendor's juices that I like a tad sweeter. Please use sparingly as it is really sweet. 4 drops in a glass of ice tea and it's almost too intense for me. Thank you for the information on both.

 

[markimar]

I have used stevia before but it can be bitter. There is also agave nectar but it has its own flavor you'd have to find something that is flavorless

 

[Steamin' E.]

Marki: May I ask how many different brands of Stevia you've tried?
Do you remember what the brand names were?
How many months/years ago did you buy it?
Was it a 90% extract/10% water preparation?
Was there any alcohol, glycerin, or any other ingredient beside the extract and the water?
Was it the "plain" variety, or was it a flavored (English toffee, chocolate, etc.) variety?
Was it bitter in all the e-liquids you tried it in, or just some?
Did it gunk up your cartos/atties more quickly than usual?

Thanks for any light you can shed on these (quite numerous) questions.

 

[Steamin' E.]

Okay, Geoff and TV aficionados, I found some really interesting and important information here: Stevia Supreme Concentrate 400g Bulk - HerbCare

Here is an exerpt from the page:

400g package of Premium Quality Pure Stevia Concentrate min 95% steviol glycosides with a min of 80% Reb A content...no aftertaste.
This is pure stevia powder..no additives...no fillers...not a blend. The highest quality available with a steviol glycoside content of 95% and a Reb A min content of 80%...

1/4 tsp equals the approx sweetness of 1 cup sugar ...

Stevioside vs Rebaudiosides: Clearing Up the Confusion:Many stevia consumers complain about an aftertaste caused by their stevia concentrate products. This unfortunate experience can be eliminated with a little knowledge learned regarding stevia There are large differences between stevia products. First in the variety of product, Stevia spoonable (white in color)...a blend of stevia concentrate and a bulking agent...quality depends on the ingredients used by the manufacturer...try to avoid those with more than two or three ingredients....HerbCare Supreme Spoonable has only two...high quality stevia concentrate and inulin derived from chicory.

There is also natural stevia powder (green) This is the whole stevia leaf ground up and has a strong aftertaste which cannot be removed...it is the most natural form of stevia with the most nutrient value however most people do not like the strong taste...it can also be acquired un-ground in a "tea" cut which is good for adding to herbal tea mixtures...

There is liquid stevia, a blend of stevia concentrate and water ...some manufacturers will add other ingredients be sure to check labels...you can make your own liquid at a fraction the cost of the pre-made by simply blending concentrate with warm purified water and adding to a dropper bottle...

...and then there is the pure Stevia Concentrate itself (white) ...the quality can vary hugely and this is where it becomes a little tricky...

Without getting to technical the basic reason is that within a stevia leaf there are four major sweetening components...one which is well known is stevioside...you will see some people boasting 80% stevioside in their product and may think this is a high quality powder but that is misleading...what you want to look for is a high content of Rebaudioside A...preferably 80% minimum...Of the four sweet components within the stevia leaf studies have proved Rebaudioside A has the sweetest , purest taste. It only makes up about 3-4% of the leaf...stevioside is approx 17% ...

Unfortunately stevioside is the most widely used in N. America because it is less expensive and more readily available. In Japan where stevia is consumed widely they use almost exclusively the Rebaudioside A leaving the more bitter stevioside to be used in pet food where the consumer (Fluffy, Fido, Spot etc) is not as concerned with aftertaste.


HerbCare Stevia Supreme Concentrate has a minimum Rebaudioside A content of 80%
...making it a clean, pure and incredibly sweet taste, (approx 300x the sweetness of sugar) .

When purchasing a stevia concentrate do not be fooled by claims of 80% or 90 % stevioside...to avoid disappointment in this wonderful, healthy and natural herb ask what the Rebaudioside A content is!

We offer only the highest Reb A content stevia...no aftertaste pure sweetness!

Be sure to check our Stevia Recipes on the HerbCare website and also send in your own recipes for others to enjoy!

Details

Shipping Weight 498.00 grams
Our Special Price: CAD $95.00

 

[Poeia]

I've tried both SweetLeaf's liquid stevia a couple of times -- both the plain and the English Toffee. The ingredients are stevia, purified water and natural flavors. While they tasted good initially, there was a strong hint of pine needles when it was time to drip some more liquid in. But it did not, as far as I can tell, hurt my atomizer.

I think one of the brands in PG rather than water (such as NOW's) might work better for use in e-liquid. There's some info in the DYI section. I linked to it the last time the subject came up over here.

ETA: Powdered stevia is, in my opinion, very bitter.

ETA2: Here's where we were discussing it before:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tasty-vapor/132708-make-sour-2.html#post2703071

 

[Steamin' E.]

Poeia, I just scoured Sweetleaf''s website, and they appear to resemble a typical American Stevia company in that they don't even specifiy the stevioside/rebaudioside ratio. They don't even mention why that ratio is so important, either. They, like almost every other Stevia company in the US, are including certain elements of the stevia extract that, in Japan (a country with decades more experience with stevia production), are only put in dog (or other pet) food. Not only are they including this Japanese dog food element in their product, it likely comprises the majority of the stevia extract content in their sweetener.

No wonder you tasted pine needles.

However, after researching and learning even more about stevia, and after searching for companies that really know what they're doing, I think it will soon be possible to avoid the carto gumming-up and potential side-effects of Sucralose without having to endure the taste of pine needles.

As you can read in post #5 above, in order to avoid aftertaste/bitterness issues with stevia, you need to find a product that is at least 80% Rebaudioside. The great news is that I've found an American company that offers a liquid stevia product that is 97% Rebaudioside-A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here's the link to the product description Rebaudiana Natural Sweetener | Sweet Green Fields Logically enough, this savvy American company happens to be located in Hawai'i -- an archipelago with strong socio-cultural ties to Japan.

Geoff, this company, if you contact them through this page Natural Stevia Sweetner | Sweet Green Fields , will send you a free sample of their product. Tasty Vapor's innovation on this point could change the e-liquid world permanently and for the better, and Tasty Vapor would be recognized as the pioneering company that started it all.

Everyday, more and more people are finding out that Sucralose isn't something they should be putting in their body. Also, judging by comments I've read on this forum, people are opting out of the add sweetener option solely because of what Sucralose does to their cartos and atties. A TV customer shouldn't have to make that compromise between flavor and carto life span when there is a potentially perfect third option out there.

 

[Poeia]

Grrrr. It just threw away my reply.

Stevita is 96% steviosides. And it's cheap. It's also water-based, not PG. My biggest complaint was the bottle. It's too narrow so it falls over often and, about halfway through, it stopped dripping and started spritzing. But if there's one thing this community is expert at, it's transferring liquids between dropper bottles.

Home - stevitastevia.com
Stevita Clear Liquid Stevia Extract - 3.3 oz.

 

[Mr. Tasty Vapor]

From what I've heard, read and considered, we won't be using Stevia. Anything that would alter the flavor of our liquids when they should just be sweetening the liquid, is out of the question.

 

[markimar]

I was going to mention agave nectar, but it is inert flavor wise. It would definitely change the juice flavor. I never vaped stevia but used it for sweetner in my drinks but always got bitter. Agave nectar is so much better as a natural low glycemic sweetner. Wish you could use plain ole sugar but the damn stuff carmalizes.

 

[ames001]

as the bitter aftertaste (and any other flavor found in stevia) comes solely from the manufacturers leaving in the stems when they process the plant, if you could find a vendor that was extremely vigilant in keeping stems out there would be no aftertaste. if you put one small leaf (grown organically like we do) in a glass of boiling water it is pure sweetness. but if you grind up the entire leaf(as we have tried) it tastes nasty. my mums pure stevia liquid has no aftertaste, and what i pulled out of the syrupy bottle with a toothpick sweetened my juice

 

[Mr. Tasty Vapor]

I guess I'm finding more eloquent ways of saying "if it isn't broken, there's no need to fix it". The sucralose blend we're using works great, apparently not with some electronics, but with the electronics changing every other month, making liquid compatible with changing electronics would be a pure hair pulling mess, if it's not broken, we're not going to fix this.

If you insist on having Stevia, then my suggestion would be, purchase your liquids without the sweetener added and use your OWN preferred sweetener. This is why we have the option to sweeten or not.

 

[jcamacho]

In other words he's already successful, don't need no stinking Stevia!

 

[Pamdane]

For those DIYers: how to make your own Stevia sweetener!
Stevia starters can be found at most garden stores that sell herbs. You can also order it online.
Once your plants take and start to grow, cut your own leaves.

You will need sterile water. Make sterile water by boiling tap water, WITH THE LID ON. Every 5 minutes take the lid off and drip the lid water into a clean coffee cup until you have a full cup ( or buy sterile water at a pharmacy). Put stevia leaves into the cup, place in microwave and boil. Let sit til cool. You will need to experiment with ratios of water to leaves. Some plants ARE sweeter than others.

Ps: you've also just learned how to make your own sterile water without the additives in tap water.

 

[Geoscouter]

What you are calling sterile water most people call distilled water. Available at the grocery store for about a buck per gallon. A lot easier than trying to make your own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jacatro]

Leave it alone! I have thrown over all my other juices (considerable amount) for TastyVapor- Thank God you have a weekly specials list! I suggest if one wants to try Stevia, to order your own juice unsweetened and go at it...but leave that recipe alone- especially Geoff's Blend!

 

[Mr. Tasty Vapor]

We model a business a certain way so that we can promote an even flow, get things done in an orderly fashion, as a manufacturer would do, except that we have a human staff and not machines that churn out liquid. The more modifications that we allow for our end products, the more increasingly difficult it becomes to get things done in a streamlined fashion, so we have to set certain standards so that we can accommodate a good amount of your modification requests and still get things done.

Where sweetener is concerned, there is a plethora of sweeteners out there, some that will work fine and some that will trash your equipment for good. We use one sweetener that works well for our products and we have an option for you to leave your liquid unsweetened, so that whatever number of sweeteners you decide you want to dabble with, you can do so on your time, and we can still get things done.

We've grown to a customer base of around 12,000 people now, a good deal of which are returning customers. We can't go flip flopping sweeteners on those people who are perfectly content with that product the way we make it, because a couple of people prefer a sweetener like Stevia.

If you want a particular sweetener in your liquid, we don't want to keep a large row of various sweeteners that we've spent money testing to see if they work or don't work with electronics, so we can add another confusing feature on our website as to which sweetener you want with your liquid.

Sweetened or Unsweetened, while this still confuses some people, is the most simplest solution that we have. The sweetener we use is a sucralose blend. If you don't like sucralose, choose Unsweetened and add your own.

 

[mcl5000]

Don't change anything.

Stevia is terrible. I've tried quite a few kinds (my fiancee is trying to take us on a "healthier" route), and they're all just bad. I can't stand my morning coffee tasting "diet", and I certainly don't want my Tasty Vapor juices tasting "diet".

Even the leaves straight off the plant are bad.