Right. It's up to you to prove it wrong. Used to be, extraordinary claims required extraordinary proof. No more.
Teens being hospitalized with lung disease doctor's say it's vaping
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If you have the time and patience, you could do the same thing to her. But, it could backfire on you and destroy whatever positive relationship that you have with her.
Probably the best thing you can do is just to thank her for her concern and then ignore whatever she sends you. People like her have tunnel vision and no matter what counter evidence you present will be ignored. Been there. Done that.
I would recommend that the irate anti-vapist take a look at British thought on the matter. That is if I gave a fig what anyone thinks about what I choose to do.
The opinion on what kind of person she is may be over assumptive, but the advice itself isn’t that bad IMHO. Brother-sister relationships are often unusual and hard to quantify. They’re both a lot more precious and a lot easier to destroy as adults than they are as children though.
Think of it as an act of love. She wouldn’t have bestirred herself to send it if she didn’t care. Rightly or wrongly.
I educate my family, sharply and sternly. My mom was doing her "great children amends" tour (she was not very good at it, LOL I have told the tale before, though."
She sat down next to me on the sofa and like, I knew SOMETHING was coming. She started into "I have heard that maybe these things are not so healthy" and I got into a RAPID FIRE STREAM OF FACTS FROM HERE AND ABROAD."
I also told her that even TALKING this way made me want to start smoking again and did she want me to. She shut up. I don't know if she believed me, but she SHUT UP. That's really all I care about.
I have helped a TON of family members with questions about meds over the years. I give them the ACTUAL facts, the potential facts, the stuff I know, the stuff I do not know, the side effects to sweat over, the side effects to NOT sweat over, and the pros and cons of everything.
True excellence listens to true excellence. My sis always LISTENS because... She KNOWS I KNOW and what I KNOW is way more valuable than what her primary care doc can tell her (she is a very chill Bipolar II and only takes antidepressants.) She is grateful, and takes heed.
The members of my family who are NOT excellent, do not listen, do not ask, ask and don't listen, ask and then try it later claiming it was "Their" idea. I don't really care. When I get asked I offer.
I do not randomly approach my family members and tell them they are on the wrong medicine/doing things wrongly, HELL:
I was the only family member to NEVER make an attempt to get my mom to leave her now dead husband, who was a massive naturopath and "spiritual" guy, oh except when his borderline personality took over. EVER other child took a stab at it.
When my mom finally ASKED me if she thought she should leave (I was living in her basement at the time) I just told her very tranquily, "Mom, you are letting me live here and I appreciate it. What happens between you and your husband is your business, not mine. I will be here to help you whenever you need it."
I had just gotten out of my OWN first abusive marriage, I was like, when you know you are ready, you KNOW.
She did a fair amount of crying on my shoulder in that basement but I knew she was not ready. That was the best gift I could give her-- support. REGARDLESS of her choices.
I don't need family trashing vaping, society is BAD enough. I did send my mom my labwork though, because I'm FAIRLY sure her statements were out of concern.
I do what I can, but trying to FORCE anyone to stop, start or change anything? It's not really a loving act.
Just my opinion as ALWAYS.
Heh.
Anna
She sat down next to me on the sofa and like, I knew SOMETHING was coming. She started into "I have heard that maybe these things are not so healthy" and I got into a RAPID FIRE STREAM OF FACTS FROM HERE AND ABROAD."
I also told her that even TALKING this way made me want to start smoking again and did she want me to. She shut up. I don't know if she believed me, but she SHUT UP. That's really all I care about.
I have helped a TON of family members with questions about meds over the years. I give them the ACTUAL facts, the potential facts, the stuff I know, the stuff I do not know, the side effects to sweat over, the side effects to NOT sweat over, and the pros and cons of everything.
True excellence listens to true excellence. My sis always LISTENS because... She KNOWS I KNOW and what I KNOW is way more valuable than what her primary care doc can tell her (she is a very chill Bipolar II and only takes antidepressants.) She is grateful, and takes heed.
The members of my family who are NOT excellent, do not listen, do not ask, ask and don't listen, ask and then try it later claiming it was "Their" idea. I don't really care. When I get asked I offer.
I do not randomly approach my family members and tell them they are on the wrong medicine/doing things wrongly, HELL:
I was the only family member to NEVER make an attempt to get my mom to leave her now dead husband, who was a massive naturopath and "spiritual" guy, oh except when his borderline personality took over. EVER other child took a stab at it.
When my mom finally ASKED me if she thought she should leave (I was living in her basement at the time) I just told her very tranquily, "Mom, you are letting me live here and I appreciate it. What happens between you and your husband is your business, not mine. I will be here to help you whenever you need it."
I had just gotten out of my OWN first abusive marriage, I was like, when you know you are ready, you KNOW.
She did a fair amount of crying on my shoulder in that basement but I knew she was not ready. That was the best gift I could give her-- support. REGARDLESS of her choices.
I don't need family trashing vaping, society is BAD enough. I did send my mom my labwork though, because I'm FAIRLY sure her statements were out of concern.
I do what I can, but trying to FORCE anyone to stop, start or change anything? It's not really a loving act.
Just my opinion as ALWAYS.
Heh.
Anna
we in the middle east used hookah shisha for tens of years .. no one realy got lung disease form hookah shisha .. and i can assure you vape is 10 times safer then hookah shisha .. hookah shisha acually use vg and flavors in the ingredients but instead of vaping it .. it burns the whole thing .. but there is something trending now in vaping and i dont like it .. nicotine salts .. those are the evil because you can easly overdose them .. yeah its maybe irritate you in the beginning and force you to stop if you overdose it .. but it will eventually have a sedation affect masking the danger of increasing your blood pressure to a dangerous level .. this can kill a person even before he get nicotine overdose poisoning .. nicotine salts should be used with caution .. free base nicotine is harsh and very few people can tolerate the 18 or 24 mg stuff .. not to mention there are people who will put other shiit in the liqued and they will blame the vape if anything goes wrong .. they will not till everybody that they put some narcotic or other nasty ingredient in the liquid
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I think salts have a useful place in that there are a small percentage of former smokers for whom unprotonated nic does not work. The thing is though it is a small fraction of current smokers. It is ABSOLUTELY NOT 70% of the vaping market. Protonated nic is causing a much larger problem than the one it successfully solves. The trick is to stop the abuse without hurting the people the stuff actually helps. My best guess for a solution is to make protonated nic a class 1 prescribed medicine. This would allow people who actually need the stuff to stop them from smoking cigarettes to actually do it while keeping it out of the hands of the people it is hurting. I think, anyway. There may be problems with this idea that have not occurred to me.
Yes the doctor selling scripts crook syndrome.
Then, we would get, "WE CAN'T EVEN TRUST DOCTORS TO SAFELY PRESCRIBE THIS STUFF."
We are in no win territory here, I pretty much guarantee almost ANY vape "Scenario" you gave me, I could find a "viable" objection by non smokers. I'm so good at it.
I have dealt with so many
ed up families and patients.
If you are going to HARM yourself you are going to HARM yourself, has become my conclusion. The best I can do (sometimes) is to like, mitigate a bit of harm along the way, and hopefully for society, too.
I cannot TELL you the number of addicts who have had, "And tell no one of the way you OBTAINED your pill factory or we will immediately lock you up." The POs MEANT it, too. Because our medical system is so fragmented.
Once something is out of the bottle, stuffing it back in can be an annoying prospect. While the Genie was HOT and that may be one reason like she is/was as popular as she is/was ,she was ALSO a blithering IDIOT, always making a mess of stuff which her (military I believe? IDK he was boring I was watching the Genie for tips) husband always had to come home to fix.
I always assumed (much like people assume nic salts are) that the sex was great it was THE ONLY explanation I could come up with.
Anna
Then, we would get, "WE CAN'T EVEN TRUST DOCTORS TO SAFELY PRESCRIBE THIS STUFF."
We are in no win territory here, I pretty much guarantee almost ANY vape "Scenario" you gave me, I could find a "viable" objection by non smokers. I'm so good at it.
I have dealt with so many
ed up families and patients.If you are going to HARM yourself you are going to HARM yourself, has become my conclusion. The best I can do (sometimes) is to like, mitigate a bit of harm along the way, and hopefully for society, too.
I cannot TELL you the number of addicts who have had, "And tell no one of the way you OBTAINED your pill factory or we will immediately lock you up." The POs MEANT it, too. Because our medical system is so fragmented.
Once something is out of the bottle, stuffing it back in can be an annoying prospect. While the Genie was HOT and that may be one reason like she is/was as popular as she is/was ,she was ALSO a blithering IDIOT, always making a mess of stuff which her (military I believe? IDK he was boring I was watching the Genie for tips) husband always had to come home to fix.
I always assumed (much like people assume nic salts are) that the sex was great it was THE ONLY explanation I could come up with.
Anna
So you’re saying this wouldn’t work for the same reason that the whole opioid epidemic happened. I guess I am assuming a functioning system of prescription drugs where there is none.Yes the doctor selling scripts crook syndrome.
Then, we would get, "WE CAN'T EVEN TRUST DOCTORS TO SAFELY PRESCRIBE THIS STUFF."
We are in no win territory here, I pretty much guarantee almost ANY vape "Scenario" you gave me, I could find a "viable" objection by non smokers. I'm so good at it.
I have dealt with so many
If you are going to HARM yourself you are going to HARM yourself, has become my conclusion. The best I can do (sometimes) is to like, mitigate a bit of harm along the way, and hopefully for society, too.
I cannot TELL you the number of addicts who have had, "And tell no one of the way you OBTAINED your pill factory or we will immediately lock you up." The POs MEANT it, too. Because our medical system is so fragmented.
Once something is out of the bottle, stuffing it back in can be an annoying prospect. While the Genie was HOT and that may be one reason like she is/was as popular as she is/was ,she was ALSO a blithering IDIOT, always making a mess of stuff which her (military I believe? IDK he was boring I was watching the Genie for tips) husband always had to come home to fix.
I always assumed (much like people assume nic salts are) that the sex was great it was THE ONLY explanation I could come up with.
Anna
The basic problem then is that the whole system of prescription medication is broken, and in order to make it function the prescription medicine system needs to be fixed first.
I can get behind that. It’s a bit binary though. Is the system completely broken, mostly broken or partially broken? To what degree has the horror of the opioid epidemic caused the prescription system to tighten up? Is it enough? Will it ever be enough? IIRC one of the problems of the opioid epidemic were “pain management centers” run by organized crime. This I understand has to some degree been addressed. I don’t know how thoroughly.
No system is perfect. There are always holes. The question is not whether they work or don’t work, but do they work well enough. You say no. You may be right.
So what is a better response? We’ve seen a few so far.
1) Ban vaping entirely. IIRC this is being tried in a city in California at the moment. Seems to be a final win option for the cigarette industry.
2) Ban protonated nic entirely. We haven’t seen that one yet, but it may not be possible as it is so easy to turn unprotonated nic into protonated nic. It’s easier than making alcohol and that whole thing went very poorly in the 1920s.
3) Do nothing. This one seems really popular here. The danger here is that it seems likely to turn into option 1 as that appears to be already happening and there is money behind it.
Got an option 4 or 5? I’m open to them.
Oh also? Class I medications are like, things that CANNOT be prescribed, like straight up amphetamines, and the like.
Class two is like this weird class of stuff that most docs don't want to prescribe for, like IDK, Suboxone's in that class and you have to like, train to be that doc.
It would have to be class III for any PCP to prescribe it and I BET they would be loathe to do so in our current vaping environment.
I agree though, that like, all these nic salts are not GREAT. But I still don't know how to '"fix" it.
I'm not entirely sure it SHOULD be "Fixed" either.
Anna
Class two is like this weird class of stuff that most docs don't want to prescribe for, like IDK, Suboxone's in that class and you have to like, train to be that doc.
It would have to be class III for any PCP to prescribe it and I BET they would be loathe to do so in our current vaping environment.
I agree though, that like, all these nic salts are not GREAT. But I still don't know how to '"fix" it.
I'm not entirely sure it SHOULD be "Fixed" either.
Anna
I thought that was class 3. Perhaps I have it backwards. I was thinking of the least controlled level.
I believe the mainstream media is programmed by big pharma, big tobacco, and the governments that serve as their puppets, so I seriously do not know the answer to the OP's question.
I do believe, however, that flavors are the unknown factor in vaping. PG is used in inhalers for asthma and other lung disease. VG has internal medical uses such as ear drops and suppositories. Flavorings may be food grade, but that doesn't mean inhalant grade. Teens are still growing, and may have immature lungs. I can't dismiss the possibility that menthol, clove and other harsh flavorings could be harmful. Even kiddie flavors like bubblegum may be irritating. Also I remember reading relatively recently that some ejuice makers still use flavors that contain diacetyl.
Vape shops selling to teens really do need to be shut down.
And teens do use vape pens for things other than eliquids.
I do believe, however, that flavors are the unknown factor in vaping. PG is used in inhalers for asthma and other lung disease. VG has internal medical uses such as ear drops and suppositories. Flavorings may be food grade, but that doesn't mean inhalant grade. Teens are still growing, and may have immature lungs. I can't dismiss the possibility that menthol, clove and other harsh flavorings could be harmful. Even kiddie flavors like bubblegum may be irritating. Also I remember reading relatively recently that some ejuice makers still use flavors that contain diacetyl.
Vape shops selling to teens really do need to be shut down.
And teens do use vape pens for things other than eliquids.
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limits of truthfulness are placed on “mainstream media” but none are placed on the alternative stuff. The impression I have received myself is that while “mainstream media” is not BS free it actually contains far less BS than the alternative stuff which tends to be nearly pure propaganda. In searching for something more pure you may have found something vastly less pure.
As the old saying goes “don’t believe everything you read”
I had a roommate once who had a father who was an international diplomat and as a result grew up in many different places all over the world. He once told me that (this was during the Cold War) when living in the eastern bloc the eastern bloc news sounded reasonable but the western stuff sounded crazy, when living in the western bloc the western staff sounded reasonable but the eastern stuff sounded crazy, but when living in the third world they BOTH sounded crazy.
I search for new sources beneath notice. Outside of and unrelated to the situation. International world stuff where the country in question doesn’t care about the outcome and people don’t care enough to lie. It’s fragmentary, but it can be used to compare and contrast.
What doing that shows me though is that the nationally based alternative news stuff isn’t more true. It’s much much less true. Often nearly pure propaganda.
depends on the source. The older flavorings created back when there was still a functioning system of public protections were tested as food additives for baking. So they were safety tested and heat tested. Those requirements are now so easy to step around they nearly don’t matter for the modern stuff. Some flavoring companies still pay attention to them though.
the diacetyl scare turns out to be largely BS. The tipping point for damage from diacetyl turns out to be far far higher than those used in even pre-deeming juices.
it’s not the vape shops that are selling to teens. That was rather conclusively proven. It’s the gas stations.
I take it all in, Naked Capitalism, Townhall.com, Infowars, Health Nut News, WSWS.org, Truthdig, anything but the mainstream media, which my fake news detector shut out long ago. Even NPR is no longer palatable with its "Biotechnology Moment" and a Science Friday that was nothing more than a two hour infomercial for Prozac. More than believing any particular news, I always want to be alert to what I should consider on my own.
Infowars? Really? That’s the some of the most pure propaganda that exists you know. It pretty much defines national and unregulated. It’s also got the worst record for telling the truth of almost any outlet.
What might I trust infowars on? Stuff that has nothing at all to do with either politics or the USA.
o you found imperfections in some stuff and therefore went for the complete trash because it better fits what you like to think. Propaganda is good at that. Lies can be made more beautiful than truth. In the late stages of world war 2 German propaganda actually got a lot more entertaining as it had to do more lying. The Prozac thing is a great example. Psychiatric drugs always have problems, generally big ones. The question becomes are the problems the drug solves greater than the problems the drug creates in a given instance. You hate Prozac though and have defined it binarily as “all bad” so you see something that points out advantages and dump the whole thing.
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You just want to argue. I tried to describe how I read and listen to everything from left to right and in between, just to get all of the viewpoints, and you're cherry picking. The Washington Post came up with the whole "fake news" thing, and that turned out to be fake news itself. Enjoy your Prozac.
No. You didn’t. You named a bunch of pretty questionable national alt news sites. Most of them were right wing, though there were a few lefties in there. All of them were US based sites dealing with US based news though. Then you did the Prozac thing, which mostly said to me “I have some biases about Prozac and I don’t like them being challenged”
I don’t take Prozac BTW. Not many people do anymore. It’s considered to be a fairly primitive drug these days. So old in fact the name isn’t even used anymore. It’s called fluoxetine now. I do know a bit about SSRIs though. You clearly don’t. Have some data:
Fluoxetine - Wikipedia
I take the Prozac comment as “anyone who doesn’t think the way I do is crazy and you don’t so you’re clearly crazy”
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