Tell us your experience with WTA

[Majestic]

Higher nic is actually the answer to chain vaping. If you don't believe me get some 36 mg and see if you chain vape that

The people who chain vape tend to be the people who use the lower nic strengths, 18 and under. Yours is super low so that doesn't surprise me

So I definitely would suggest going with the higher nic strength WTA, if you aren't getting enough nic, then the WTA can only help you so much

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately I can chain 24mg until I got a good buzz and still continue to vape away. 36mg would probably put me in the ground. 8-o I was hoping the WTA satisfaction would break the chain habit without increasing my nicotine dependence level.

 

[radiokaos]

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately I can chain 24mg until I got a good buzz and still continue to vape away. 36mg would probably put me in the ground. 8-o I was hoping the WTA satisfaction would break the chain habit without increasing my nicotine dependence level.

Are you chain vaping 24 MG with WTA or without?

You might be surprised with 24 MG with WTA and its performance.

 

[kingcobra]

Yes, 24 mg with WTA satisfies me when 30 mg without didn't. WTA jacks things up for sure. I cut 24 mg with 36, result 30, this is way too much of something for me, not sure what I'm going to do with it now actually So the WTA makes a huge difference and you can't compare nic to nic.

 

[Majestic]

Are you chain vaping 24 MG with WTA or without?

You might be surprised with 24 MG with WTA and its performance.

I'm using straight 24mg without WTA. I'll have to give WTA another try at the 24mg and see if there is a difference.

 

[juicejunky]

Was there ever any correlation found between the nicotine strength and the strength of WTA as Chewie inquired previously? I had placed an order a while back in the low nic strength and really didn't notice any WTA effect. I had hope WTA was the answer to chain vaping, but chained those as well. If a higher nic strength would have better results I would definitely try again.

Radiokaos -

ITPython posed this question to you back on page 2 of this discussion, but you never answered him. It sort of got buried in all of the discussion about accusations the reviews were being created by you, and not actual purchasers of the WTA juices. I'm sure you just didn't see it, but I have been wondering the same thing ITPython asked myself. (NOT the validity of the reviews, I believe all of the reviews are valid, and not created by you.)

In fact, I left a message on your Contact Us page on Aroma Ejuice website about the mg of nicotine, and whether the amount of WTA in the juice varied depending on the nicotine level.

Has this question been answered yet? Is the amount of WTA relative to the level of nicotine in the ejuice? 24mg has more (twice as much?) than 12mg ejuice.

 

[Stubby]

Has this question been answered yet? Is the amount of WTA relative to the level of nicotine in the ejuice? 24mg has more (twice as much?) than 12mg ejuice.

That is my understanding. I believe Jerry has been through this in the past as there where questions as to if the minor alkaloids were a constant and just the nicotine was increased, but that is not the case. There is a ratio of minor alkaloids to nicotine that stays the same. As you increase the nicotine you also increase the minor alkaloids.

 

[radiokaos]

That is my understanding. I believe Jerry has been through this in the past as there where questions as to if the minor alkaloids were a constant and just the nicotine was increased, but that is not the case. There is a ratio of minor alkaloids to nicotine that stays the same. As you increase the nicotine you also increase the minor alkaloids.

THANK YOU STUBBY.....you nailed it.

There is a specific way to have higher values on the "minor alkaloids." However, you will need to play and understand the PKA' values on each of the alkaloids in the spectrum and isolate each one while omitting nicotine. Its a pain but it can be done.

Stubby thanks for your input....I'm going to take a nap now.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Yes, 24 mg with WTA satisfies me when 30 mg without didn't. WTA jacks things up for sure. I cut 24 mg with 36, result 30, this is way too much of something for me, not sure what I'm going to do with it now actually So the WTA makes a huge difference and you can't compare nic to nic.

In the long run I think this is more advisable. We all love to vape, but I don't think consuming high doses of any stimulant is a good thing. WTA has made it possible for me, and apparently others, to not have to vape as much or at least as high of nicotine doses. So, more satisfaction results in less of a nicotine chase which never really can be caught anyway...or if you do mange to consume a high enough dosage, then you may regret the "effects"! Nic sick is not pleasurable at all. Nicotine satisfaction, is the goal (at least is it for me)!

 

[kingcobra]

Ok, so with that said, then we can expect the 12 mg nic to have less other alkaloids, perhaps half, then the 24 mg WTA. So if you bought a bottle of 10 ml 24 mg and cut it 20/50 with PG then nic and other alkaloids wise this should be the same as the 12 mg stock juice. So in other words, 2 for the price of 1 if you don't mind muting the flavor. Or, you can mix it with a 24 mg juice and end up with 24 mg and the same minor alkaloids as a stock 12 mg bottle would have. Now I don't ever plan on ordering 12 mg but some others may be interested in this, and in fact, may be disappointed with the effects of the minor alkaloids of the 12 mg WTA juice but may become satisfied with the 24 mg because presumably there are twice as many alkaloids per ml of juice (?).

Also, it would be good to know how the 18 mg concentrate compares to the 24 mg juice in terms of the minor alkaloids. Since this is called "concentrate" we would presume there is more minor alkaloids per ml, especially given this is 4 ml versus 12 ml of the regular juice. So three times the cost, three times as much? I was thinking perhaps assuming five times, so I'd put 2 ml of that to 8 ml of regular juice. Someone else said they put 1.5 to 8.5 so I want to make sure I am erring on the side of getting enough WTA. Does this seem right?

 

[Mr.Mann]

Ok, so with that said, then we can expect the 12 mg nic to have less other alkaloids, perhaps half, then the 24 mg WTA. So if you bought a bottle of 10 ml 24 mg and cut it 20/50 with PG then nic and other alkaloids wise this should be the same as the 12 mg stock juice. So in other words, 2 for the price of 1 if you don't mind muting the flavor. Or, you can mix it with a 24 mg juice and end up with 24 mg and the same minor alkaloids as a stock 12 mg bottle would have. Now I don't ever plan on ordering 12 mg but some others may be interested in this, and in fact, may be disappointed with the effects of the minor alkaloids of the 12 mg WTA juice but may become satisfied with the 24 mg because presumably there are twice as many alkaloids per ml of juice (?).

Also, it would be good to know how the 18 mg concentrate compares to the 24 mg juice in terms of the minor alkaloids. Since this is called "concentrate" we would presume there is more minor alkaloids per ml, especially given this is 4 ml versus 12 ml of the regular juice. So three times the cost, three times as much? I was thinking perhaps assuming five times, so I'd put 2 ml of that to 8 ml of regular juice. Someone else said they put 1.5 to 8.5 so I want to make sure I am erring on the side of getting enough WTA. Does this seem right?

I don't know if this is right, but it does seem like a good question!

 

[radiokaos]

I don't know if this is right, but it does seem like a good question!

There is a lot of confusion on this. Give me some time to work up a good answer.


People are a little off in their assumptions with "minor alkaloid" content.

I'm not eloquent so give me a several hours to work up a fair and clear reply.

I strongly recommend that you stick with what you are currently vaping at the same dosages and not to cut it. If you are vaping 12MG then get 12 MG's. The same goes for higher 24 MG as well.

I need to catch up on a few things today so I will be offline for several hours but will get back to you soon.

 

[Mr.Mann]

No worries, Jerry!

 

[Brobdingnagian]

I don't know if this is right, but it does seem like a good question!

To the best of my knowledge, minor alkaloid content will only equal a certain percentage of actual nicotine content.

Let me explain this as I understand it.

For example: if you have WTA juice at 24mg nicotine and, assuming the minor alkaloid content is 2.5-5%- let's suppose you dilute the juice by 1:1 with just nicotine/pg/vg; what you end up with is the same nicotine content, and half of the alkaloids the base liquid contained.

WTA as a whole can be indicated in proportions one of two ways-

1.separate from the base concentration of nicotine.

Example: let's say you know exactly how much WTA you want per bottle and use a fixed ratio, you put the known amount of WTA concentrate in, then add your liquids and titrate nicotine upwards to adjust the total nicotine content to where you want it. You can use simple math for this, since your WTA base will only contain so much nicotine at a given amount. Simply put, you add WTA and then nicotine to get the strength desired.

2.the WTA will be directly proportionate to nicotine content (nicotine being the indicator for strength of the alkaloids instead of a separate value)- where WTA (which would include nicotine in the spectrum of alkaloids) is concentrated to a point that the nicotine is indicative of total minor alkaloid content. In this instance, higher nicotine would equal higher amounts of minor alkaloids, and the entire process would be much simpler but require larger amounts of WTA to equal the same concentration of nicotine.

Example: Your WTA is where you derive your total nicotine in a given liquid, so when the nicotine is just right, so is the WTA. Only addition of full-spectrum WTA is used in order to adjust the strength of the liquid, no titration of nicotine is needed.

In either case, additional nicotine could be added, but depending on how the concentrate was formed and how concentrated the minor alkaloids were, the amount to dilute by would vary greatly to achieve the desired results. This is why making WTA juice isn't a walk in the park.

 

[kingcobra]

Sounds good, what I'm looking for once again is to figure out how I get my old non WTA juice up to specs with the WTA juice. Now mixing won't do this, maybe not even adding concentrate would. However, if it's possible, what ratio of concentrate would I need?

 

[kingcobra]

To the best of my knowledge, minor alkaloid content will only equal a certain percentage of actual nicotine content.

Let me explain this as I understand it.

For example: if you have WTA juice at 24mg nicotine and, assuming the minor alkaloid content is 2.5-5%- let's suppose you dilute the juice by 1:1 with just nicotine/pg/vg; what you end up with is the same nicotine content, and half of the alkaloids the base liquid contained.

WTA as a whole can be indicated in proportions one of two ways-

1.separate from the base concentration of nicotine.

Example: let's say you know exactly how much WTA you want per bottle and use a fixed ratio, you put the known amount of WTA concentrate in, then add your liquids and titrate nicotine upwards to adjust the total nicotine content to where you want it. You can use simple math for this, since your WTA base will only contain so much nicotine at a given amount. Simply put, you add WTA and then nicotine to get the strength desired.

2.the WTA will be directly proportionate to nicotine content (nicotine being the indicator for strength of the alkaloids instead of a separate value)- where WTA (which would include nicotine in the spectrum of alkaloids) is concentrated to a point that the nicotine is indicative of total minor alkaloid content. In this instance, higher nicotine would equal higher amounts of minor alkaloids, and the entire process would be much simpler but require larger amounts of WTA to equal the same concentration of nicotine.

Example: Your WTA is where you derive your total nicotine in a given liquid, so when the nicotine is just right, so is the WTA. Only addition of full-spectrum WTA is used in order to adjust the strength of the liquid, no titration of nicotine is needed.

In either case, additional nicotine could be added, but depending on how the concentrate was formed and how concentrated the minor alkaloids were, the amount to dilute by would vary greatly to achieve the desired results. This is why making WTA juice isn't a walk in the park.

Well it comes down to what is meant by concentrate, and for this to work for us concentrate would need to contain a much higher percentage of minor alkaloids. So if it's 18 mg of nic and the same percentage of minor alkaloids as regular WTA juice then we're paying for 4 ml when we could get 10 for the same price. So if that is the case I wonder why anyone would ever want to buy it.

However, to take non WTA juice and make it WTA juice you need to add something to it, WTA nic for instance. So this nic juice or whatever is going to be much higher than the 18 or 24 obviously. So we know that it is possible to have a nic concentrate, perhaps that could be offered for sale at some point, at whatever the heck they use, 60, 100 nic juice, whatever.

So I do get it at least generally when it comes to WTA, as far as it being proportionate to the nicotine content, but in order for the 18 mg concentrate to truly be a concentrate, once again the ratio of nic to minor alkaloids would have to be much higher. So perhaps this is why it costs $3 a ml. So what we need to know is the ratio of minor alkaloids in the concentrate to the regular juice. For instance if it is 5:1 then buying the concentrate makes sense.

 

[Brobdingnagian]

Exactly. a 5% ratio would only be 1/20th of 1 ml, while 5:1 is higher, probably around 20% or 1/5th of a ml.

We would see a hypothetical 4.8mg trace alkaloids to every 24mg nic in that instance. But these are just hypothetical conjecture. Those using the concentrate have a more subjective, hands-on experience and know what works for them, however.

I don't doubt it's cost-effective, since you can adjust your WTA intake and also make a strong nightcap blend based on your preferences. Titrating WTA amounts will prove to be more challenging than nicotine, but also reduce nicotine consumption.

Either way, it's a step forward.

 

[radiokaos]

Exactly. a 5% ratio would only be 1/20th of 1 ml, while 5:1 is higher, probably around 20% or 1/5th of a ml.

We would see a hypothetical 4.8mg trace alkaloids to every 24mg nic in that instance. But these are just hypothetical conjecture. Those using the concentrate have a more subjective, hands-on experience and know what works for them, however.

I don't doubt it's cost-effective, since you can adjust your WTA intake and also make a strong nightcap blend based on your preferences. Titrating WTA amounts will prove to be more challenging than nicotine, but also reduce nicotine consumption.

Either way, it's a step forward.

I'm not sure what you are saying.... are you saying its not cost effect for concentrate or for flavored WTA?

Just a quick FYI, we are able to selectively extract specific alkaloids by looking at certain values during our extraction process.

 

[chewie]

Has this question been answered yet? Is the amount of WTA relative to the level of nicotine in the ejuice? 24mg has more (twice as much?) than 12mg ejuice.

That is my understanding. I believe Jerry has been through this in the past as there where questions as to if the minor alkaloids were a constant and just the nicotine was increased, but that is not the case. There is a ratio of minor alkaloids to nicotine that stays the same. As you increase the nicotine you also increase the minor alkaloids.

Thank you! Stubby I was trying to get this explained to me for awhile, but I guess I was not posing the question properly. This was exactly what I wanted to know.

It's adding to the confusion, because another vendor that I found on a juice review blog (a fair blog I think, where the writer samples juices from several vendors, WTA and non-WTA), before other vendors website crashed from a daily changing merry-go-round of reasons, was selling "WTA" in such a way that you could order a specific amount of nicotine, and then order WTA in various levels, as if it were a separate ingredient added separately, that could be added at any level the purchaser desired. (For instance: low, medium, high, and very high, not specific values, but vague "strengths".) I was never able to place an order, so I never sampled his product.

Maybe the other vendor uses a different extraction method, and extracts his alkaloids from the nicotine in an extra and separate process? I am not here to really compare competitors e-liquid since I haven't tried them both, or how they make their product, but here at Aroma E-juice (where I am now a 3 times customer in just over a month's time), the answer to my question is: the ratio of alkaloids to nicotine is constant as they don't use a separate process to separate the nicotine from the alkaloids, it's added to the juice in the same ratios it's extracted from the tobacco, at from what already sounds like difficult enough, multi-step processes and filtrations.

Oh yeah, and I finally just got to hear a cool radio blog called Click Bang! on blogtalkradio, and there was a phone call with Jerry very early on in the recent history of WTA, just before or exactly when WTA was first released to the public, and WTA could only be purchased in 4ml bottles, for $3 a ml I think was mentioned, but don't quote me on that. Not a whole lot was said about the extraction process itself obviously, it's a proprietary process for Jerry, no business for profit is going to teach this difficult process for all competing e-liquid manufacturers to dabble in.

Again, thanks for clearing that up.

A verified tobacco addict. (Notice I left out the word "nicotine" specifically, as nicotine (e-liquid, gum, patch) alone did not satisfy my addiction and cravings like WTA is doing now.)

Thank you Jerry and Aroma Ejuice.

Nathan

 

[Brobdingnagian]

I'm not sure what you are saying.... are you saying its not cost effect for concentrate or for flavored WTA?

Just a quick FYI, we are able to selectively extract specific alkaloids by looking at certain values during our extraction process.

Jerry, not at all. The concentrate is more cost effective, because the vaper can adjust to exactly how much WTA they need- as an example, if I like a strong tobacco in the evening but a little bit of a weaker one in the morning and afternoon, I can apportion two bottles separately and mark one of them "strong" and the other "lite" to remind me of which has more of the concentrate.

If you're selectively extracting them, then that explains why your WTA is as effective as it is.

chewie:

I believe that the minor alkaloids will be a fixed percentage of the blend itself, not necessarily of nicotine content. This is to say that if you order a blend with 24mg it will have the same amount of minor alkaloids as a blend with 18mg.

Extractions and equipment will always differ for different producers.

As an example, if you vape 18mg and you try to use less nicotine because there's WTA, say 12mg for instance, you might not be as satisfied with it as if you had ordered 18mg with WTA.

The concentrate is an entirely different beast, and one that I know very little about other than to say this:

Nicotine does not indicate total alkaloid content, because different strains of tobacco have different levels of minor alkaloids. It would be very possible for the minor alkaloids in the concentrate to be exponentially higher than in a standard blend.

One of the main reasons not everyone is doing it, is because it's neither safe nor simple for just anyone to do it. You need know-how, and you need equipment. If it's made incorrectly, it could be a very dangerous mistake- it really is one of those "don't try this at home" things.

You do it in a lab. There is no try.

 

[chewie]

I started the above post a couple days ago, and I have about 40 tabs open in Google Chrome, and forgot all about it. I finished it Sunday afternoon when I realized it was sitting here incomplete. I hit [Submit Reply] button, and find out that the discussion has continued for several posts while I have been distracted on other internet business.

Everybody's posts have been very mentally stimulating. Thank you. WTA is very fascinating, it really has been a safer alternative, I haven't wanted to pick up an analogue since I started vaping it. I am shut in much of the time, and watch a lot of cable TV movies. It used to make me crazy when the film characters lit up cigarettes, something that happens a lot in Hollywood films, but thankfully not on network television. Every time someone lit up a cigarette, my cravings would go into overdrive, and I still have my last pack of analogues hidden in my desk drawer.

I have given the only cigarettes missing from the pack (except for 2 I smoked in March) away to my friend who needs them for his irritable bowel, when he needs help getting them to move. I used to have a 97 year old physician in Virginia, who wrote prescriptions for 2-3 cigarettes a day to treat irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) symptoms. He never wrote me one, because I was a 2 pack a day smoker at the time. Tobacco is a known treatment for IBS, it is taught in medical school, but not practiced for obvious reasons.

This old country doctor was a non cigarette smoker, who smoked one bowl of pipe tobacco at bedtime to help him fall asleep, but he never developed a chain smoking addiction to tobacco like cigarette smokers do. He brewed his own Apricot liquor in his basement from the Apricots that grew on his land. He offered me a taste, but I had to remind him the meds he prescribed me said not to take alcohol with them, so I declined. Normally I would have eagerly had many sips. I was taking Bipolar meds and fighting self-medicating issues in those difficult young days of my life. This doctor was a one of a kind, they don't make them like that anymore. When I had migraines he insisted I come to his clinic after hours, where he gave me medication most people could only get in a hospital. He kept a fully stocked pharmacy in his clinic, which he gave freely to any of his patients, if they were short money to fill the prescription in a local pharmacy at retail prices. I heard a rumor that part of the collections taken at the church he and his wife attended, where he told me he taught Sunday school, were donated to his clinic for his patients when they couldn't pay full fees for his services, he could implement a sliding fee scale. His clinic was on the same land as his home, it was covered with trees, almost forested, but had small crops and fruit trees he and wife cultivated. His wife was a nurse who worked in the clinic also. He used to play around and say he liked his job, because he could flirt with his nurses, and he would give his wife a pat on the bottom. Sometimes he would do this before patients knew she was his wife, just to have a little fun with them. His sense of humor always caught me off-guard, he was a bit of a prankster.