Temperature Control Testing Results: DNA 75C LostVape Paranormal Using Steam Engine SS316L Profile

[AussieGeek]

Temperature Control Testing results for the dna 75C board (Lostvape Paranormal) using the Steam Engine SS316L profile are available here:

Temperature Control Testing Results: DNA 75C LostVape Paranormal Using Steam Engine SS316L Profile : Vaping

OR imgur.com/a/EOL9hRE

TLDR: You might expect that the DNA75C results would be better than the DNA75 (original) results, and while the results are largely comparable in most states, there is some overheating and more volatility compared to the classic dna 75 under the same conditions, shown here imgur.com/a/7Pe3Gad. However, under the "new" test using a dual coil high mass low to mid resistance build, the result was one of the best I have ever seen for any state on any mod in terms of accuracy and flatness (but I have no prior results for this test to comapare to). Using the stock SS316L profile or DJAquith 3.5 did not produce better results. You can see the results using the DjAquith 3.5 results, here: imgur.com/a/Abf57Fi. The Steam Engine 316L profile was still the most accurate according to this rig/analysis and as best as I could tell from my thermocouple.

 

[Mordacai]

@AussieGeek I've been enjoying reading your work.

But I wonder what impact optimising the internal resistance on an Evolv chipset mod would have on TC accuracy, as I'm not that sure that manufacturers actually do this process during manufacturing.

I think that they may just use a basic stock setting instead.

 

[AussieGeek]

This very much depends on what resistance coils you are building, at 1.8 ohm it will have pretty much no impact, but at 0.12 ohm it may. I have a plug and use escribe to test internal restistance across a range of DNA mods so I can provide some insight on this: in my experience most of the mods come out around 0.005 ohm. This is not far off the kind of variability you often get when re-reading a stainless steel coil as the ambient temperature changes and the accuracy of your profile/TCR curve and the quality of the SS wire used and any difference between ambient temperature and assumed temperature are all likely to introduce error of equal or greater magnitude i.e. unless its a really bad mod with an internal resistance over 0.01 ohm its not likely to make much difference. From what I can tell, the profile you use (stock DNA SS vs Steam Engine vs DJLSB vs DJaquith) will have a much bigger impact (unless its a badly made mod).

 

[Mordacai]

True, the TFR assures higher accuracy. But with SS Alloys there's also a lot of minor variatons in the composition and forming processes that have an impact as well on what the TFR should be, it's a shame that manufacturers don't release them.

I was looking around recently and found out that Stealth Vape did upload a TFR file for SS316L, but it's no longer available for some unknown reason. I just wonder if it's out in the wild somewhere or I may have to contact Stealth Vape to chase it up.

 

[BillW50]

Curiously AussieGeek, have you done thermo calibrations before you ran the TC tests? And I'll agree that the mod's internal resistance shouldn't matter much, but it only takes seconds to do anyway.

Here is one video you might want to check out. It is one of Daniel of DJLsb Vapes videos did with John Bellinger of Evolv. I can tell Daniel isn't following along very well, but John was doing a very good job of explaining TC and Replay. Here are my notes I wrote down from the video.

00:50 Daniel speaks about Replay
01:42 Paranormal is one of Daniel's favorite mods
02:25 Use the DNA250C as a power bank
09:20 Scoped output of Replay
11:02 Replay reduces spitback
12:40 Drone video of Evolv
13:10 Quick shot of Brandon
13:40 Start of John's lesson (with his Dave Jones EEVBlog T-shirt)
14:00 How Evolv got started
15:12 Tinfoil hat drones
15:50 9 watts... umm ok... 9 watts
16:28 Darwin was born
17:43 TC was born
18:28 TC can work well or can be finicky
21:00 How TC works
22:20 Virtually everything is made with a press fit
23:55 TCR explained
28:00 Replay explained
28:45 Can run Replay and TC at the same time
29:15 Temperature dominate vs power dominate
29:25 TC doesn't really care about wire type?
30:25 Flavors at different temperatures
33:00 Thermal mass
33:45 Favorite puff
40:15 Kanthal and Replay
47:16 It's more of a party trick
50:00 Replay for pods?
52:10 John's Replay pod
54:47 Fancier processors aren't bigger
57:05 Everything that has been invented...
57:30 There are still smokers
58:50 The market is moving towards pods
59:40 Evolv's Darwin
59:38 Evolv Kicks
1:00:26 Two steps forward and two steps back
1:02:25 John's secret lab
1:04:10 Evolv's manufacturing plant

 

[BillW50]

Oh yeah, I'm glad to see you here too on ECF AussieGeek.

 

[AussieGeek]

True, the TFR assures higher accuracy. But with SS Alloys there's also a lot of minor variatons in the composition and forming processes that have an impact as well on what the TFR should be, it's a shame that manufacturers don't release them.

I was looking around recently and found out that Stealth Vape did upload a TFR file for SS316L, but it's no longer available for some unknown reason. I just wonder if it's out in the wild somewhere or I may have to contact Stealth Vape to chase it up.

I have used a range of wire brands in testing for precisely this reason, and if you can see an indication that the wire has any consistent impact on the outcome, compared to the variation we see in outcomes due to the mod itself, you have a sharper eye than me ; p
It may be there in the noise, and I was hoping to see a consistent trend of under or over temp for certain wires due to variation in composition, but I am not seeing it yet (I dont think, cant be 100%)...maybe when temperature control reaches another order of accuracy we can worry about this nuance more.
By the way, if you think you are seeing a wire brand effect in my testing, please let me know! I fully expected it to be more obvious.

 

[AussieGeek]

Curiously AussieGeek, have you done thermo calibrations before you ran the TC tests? And I'll agree that the mod's internal resistance shouldn't matter much, but it only takes seconds to do anyway.

Hi Bill! Yes I remember this video which is what got me super hyped about DNA mods again. I should revisit it knowing what I know now. I am really curious about the differences we are seeing between DNA 75 vs 75C and 167 vs 250C...if you have a chance to compare my results so far I think it reveals that not everything is better about the new boards in terms of precision and flatness, there seems to be a bit of noise and drift in the new boards by comparison.

So as part of setting up the testing rig vapeymcguyver who built if for me did a bunch of calibration, and then when I got it I ran a Fluke IR sensor, a FLIR camera and a thermocouple to check it. I keep a thermocouple on my desk to check any surprising results....but I find all those methods involve quite a lot of uncertainty and variability, especially thermocouple testing (Good thermal conduction is hard to achieve with a probe unless you use thermal paste that isnt electrically conductive, which wrap of a coil do you test). I have found no material discrepency between the testing rig, DNA boards running steam engine, and my thermocouple, on multiple devices, and I take that to be good enough to assess certainly the shapre and quality of termperature outcomes, and ive put error estimates of around +/-7C around the accuracy, based on the above testing.

In fact I was really surprised how closely the RIG and live temp display DNA mods agree...in fact even the dicodes live temperature largely agreed.

I will obviously need to re-calibrate again soon, and if I find any drift I will make that clear. I am thinking about the best way to do that and will take suggestions. My current thinking is that I shouldnt be running coils for calibration, instead straight, thick wire I can press hard onto. The problem is the resistance is low for that which is where you get noise in the data. Methodological critique and suggestions are always welcome!