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Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

Discussion in 'Coil Builds' started by super_X_drifter, Dec 14, 2014.

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  1. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Russ was the primary inspiration that caused me to consider quitting and whether the closed (contact) coil could be effectively used to create coherent baselines by beginners and everyone. He'll always be number one in my book.

    Good luck W. :)
     
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  2. Wayneo

    Wayneo Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 5, 2015
    Oh Canada
    Same here. I think he's the only person that I've watched every single one of his videos. Bought and still use my Beadalon for wrapping coils even. I always envied that custom rig he got later and wonder if he still uses it to this day. Great guy and personality.
    Now that I'm reminiscing, I notice 'Bill's Magic Vapor' isn't even listed at all any more :ohmy:
     
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  3. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Wow. I think there's something def wrong with this iteration of the forum W. His blog…Bill's Magic Vapor's blog - Page 2 | E-Cigarette Forum is still up and so is his profileBill's Magic Vapor | E-Cigarette Forum. I would be sorely disappointed if he magically disappeared.

    Good on you jiggin it. If you've evolved to refine your own techniques for curing the pan, i.e. oxidizing that t.m.c. rascal, then I know you're just dandy.

    Vape on! And good luck. :)
     
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  4. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Dropped several posts for @c4ppucino on managing coil distortion when installing here…

    Kanthal coil got skewed after dry firing

    Too many to cross-post so check the menu pull down/items…
    Thread Tools: Who Replied: MacTechVpr
    to catch them all.

    Good luck. :)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  5. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    For reference, from the thread…Replacing coils every other day. | E-Cigarette Forum

    Good morning all. Some great comebacks! I've read a few of these threads and I'm always curious what the spec of the coil is and what the heck does it look like. Still marvel after all these years why…the pic! the pic!…is rarely asked for. I mean really, are we that into reading?

    Good point. Complex pigments are not necessarily visible. Sugars are particularly pernicious where accretion is concerned. Problem is that makers' formulas vary and aren't usually the noted flavoring alone but a recipe perhaps containing additional flavorings and other ingredients. Don't find blueberry or vanilla to be particularly dirty (ex. madagascar, or a pure or partial extraction) vs. caramels or some custards. Again, the spec is important. Otherwise, testing is the only way to be sure. And to come back on point…before we get to having to diagnose a gunk problem. Why? because it could be the performance of the device. But it's hard to diagnose if the juice is suspect (why I love RDA's and rebuilding).
    Can I tell ya, I love the Kanger's for getting things right, for the simplicity. I build to a standard precisely so that assessing hardware and ultimately juices is ultimately simpler. That's really my point for answering here. Get rid of the easy stuff first…the wind itself, the mechanics used for installation and device parameters/setups…which we're going to do repeatedly anyway. Be certain of that and then the subtle differences which can make or break a juice's performance can be far, far easier to isolate. And all the above does become much easier with repetition. So a baseline approach is key. All we can do and know is controlled for. The big mystery, the great unknown, at the end of the day is what we're vaping. But you all know I was gonna say that, right?

    LV build a tensioned Kanthal microcoil to a metric, at least 7/64" for the KST and high power which I gather you're using (>25W). Rec's are good that you start from the lower side but I hesitate to suggest anything without seeing your wind/s. Takes seconds to make this, oxidize and space (if you insist later for contrast) either before are after burn-in. Point is to try to get to the most predictable thermal result as possible. On the ST I wouldn't space as the post-to-post spread is narrow. It will lengthen the coil minimizing turn count and surface area. This is kinda how you get into the over-powered gunking winds zone (smart move to ditch the multi-wire with the juice you're trying to nail down). That can come later.

    Few simple tools and some wire and you'll have baseline you can weigh any kind of build or coil product against. Why? You'll be able to replicate the exact flavor and performance on demand to use for comparison. Hope this makes some sense and is useful to you.

    Good luck LV. :)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  6. Wayneo

    Wayneo Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 5, 2015
    Oh Canada
    Same here. There was another thread I found extremely informative for many/newer users. This guy. Multi-strand twisted wire builds offer some great benefits and wonder if it's a carp build with a high heat capacity helping to cause the gunk as the coil slowly cools.
    Sometimes, even at my advanced age, I can get triggered by the pic. 1cm coil legs, trapped on the right side of the screw will do it to me everytime.
     
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  7. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    For reference…

    First I'd check…Home - Kanger World…for any still available spares. Then eBay, FT, 3F, GearBest, etc. if the search engines don't pan out for the specific part/s. Here's two handy search tools…

    PicClick • Search eBay Faster. Find it first!
    Vapecrawler

    Always search here on ECF first to check if members found a good deal or source.

    Good luck. :)
     
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  8. Letitia

    Letitia Therion/Nano Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Get lost?;)
     
  9. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Well mebe, LOL :D I do some periodic posting here for ref…keep this thread live for new vapers and an opportunity to help out.

    Good luck. :)
     
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  10. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    "The hardest thing in vaping is trying to explain to folks they could have a better vape because they are so damned pleased to get what they have and frankly petrified of going backwards to what they had." —MacTechVpr
     
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  11. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Thank you all truly, for the opportunity to be of service.

    Good luck. :)
     
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  12. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
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  13. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
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  14. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    An excellent strategy. Also, hold on to the orig OCC assemblies. They dismantle with a little effort. Then adjusted, i.e. shaved, trimmed, filed etc. to make disassembly easier. Advantage?


    The OCC can take more varied and robust winds that'll far outperform anything in the RBA. I like the deck for <30 tab builds. But the first replaceable can really stoke the KST. Kanger bad and did us wrong to lock 'em up.

    But if you happen to disagree y'all go ahead and send me your old OCC assemblies. I'll def put 'em to good use. Glad to have to help folks quit with rebuilding. And you can't get much easier than that. Just better.

    Cood luck. :)
     
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  15. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Lifted from the thread FIRE IN THE HOLE | Post #29 | Page 2 | E-Cigarette Forum for reference on the effects of lack of symmetry (of both elements and their segments) inc good tube on spontaneous ignition and discussion of glycerols and their properties…

    Good puff thx for the demo. Obvious ?, notice anything peculiar about the build? The apparent [unwicked] wire temp it got to?

    Symmetry is our friend. Of elements and segments.

    Good luck. :)
     
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  16. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    The Villages, FL
    Not my build, just grabbed the vid off YT...but yes very unbalanced build.
     
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  17. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Lifted from the thread…Need suggestions for a good MTL build on my Kayfun Prime - replicating my Nautilus 2 as a reminder. :)

    No better hidden secret on this forum…

    A fabulous vape in 30 seconds and no better method for an honest baseline. Vape memory is all too easily persuaded by shiny and me gots too.

    Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.
    Protank MicroCoil Discussion!

    Then there's always chuckin' horseshoes. ;)

    Good luck. :)

    p.s. Think mass to wetted surface area. What does it get ya?
     
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  18. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    For reference from the thread…KangerTech SUBTANK Mini | Page 187 | Post #3731.

    The chase for more production goes all the way back to the Aspire vert's and earlier micro vert experiments with clearo's notably the original and anemic Kanger Protank heads. It' always seemed to me counterintuitive to pack a coil from the outside so as to inhibit flow getting closest to the coil. The rapidly expanding vapor pushes outwardly against the juice supply. This must require higher power. Lots of flooding in those tests.

    View attachment 751721 View attachment 751729 View attachment 751733 View attachment 751735

    But for all who've come up on strictly externally wicked verticals it's a level of vapor density they're accustomed to. And reasonably more vapor should yield more flavor…except when you limit the supply source you tend to diffuse the vape reducing its density. So not really with verticals. They reach a density maximum more readily. And for cool MTL vapers there simply won't be enough there to begin with. The Holy Grail I think, the most natural geometry for a compact radiator, is the spiral. It's most favorable optimization, internal.

    There really isn't a need to compromise though, as I've spoken to often. Spirals can be made better.

    Good luck. :)
     
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  19. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Lifted from the thread TENSION WRAPPING | Post #5 for reference here…
    @muth, good question. The resistance changes very little from the slight amount of stretching. Wouldn't be saying much if that's all there were to it.

    Straining wire precisely on a mandrel though is just the means to an end. One similar in functional practice as curing a good cast iron pan. A slight strain multiplied by a good tool like a pin vise builds form into the wire as in a spring with very little effort. Coils then just want to stubbornly be one. Getting it just that tight and symmetrical aids tremendously in uniformly oxidizing the surface with electrical pulsing of the battery. Quickly, so less fiddly time getting to the vape. It's these two things, persistent form and the resulting wire surface insulation of alumina that take the final form much, much closer to the "theoretical" resistance of the wire. In other words, you make the most of the heat from the pan.

    So you can make good tight winds that outperform a larger heftier geometry by bettering even heating. Much as you might by concentrating the light of several magnifiers. Except it's not random or variable but consistently (focused) and so a lesser likelihood of scorching wick and flow. I'm sure you may appreciate what such a uniform effective surface can do in the kitchen if you enjoy cooking as I do.

    My reluctant surprise five years ago was just how well it worked. If interested, give us a shout. I'm here to help if need be in getting the wind and prep right. In the middle of a project but I'll do my best or someone should pipe in on the above thread.

    Good luck muth. :)

    p.s. For clarification, straining a wire stretches it if ever so slightly. But in so doing it's made thinner accounting for the small changes in linear resistance.
     
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  20. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    For reference from the thread …Rda | Page 1 | Post #14

    Drew, this should give you an idea…

    MacTechVpr's Tensioned Rebuild Central

    I would start on the higher side of green if you're unsure. Get a good wide bore drip tip for your RDA and learn how to slipstream some air as you draw. Something we did rather intuitively and asbsentmindedly with analogs. It helps to moderate the diffusion of vapor after it's been produced at the coil as well as the apparent temperature. These things will brighten your vape.

    Learn to rebuild an efficient coil and nirvana will happen.

    Good luck. :)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

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