The "200w" questionare!

[Submarine123]

So as a Christmas gift to myself, I'm upgrading my sad, old Kanger GayBOX, Sub(par)tank Na-"NO", EFART battery, Chinese Surprise battery, and most likely my TurtleFire 2-bay charger.

Puns.

Anyway, I have a ton of questions as I am adamant about looking into the research and staying safe. I've already looked at all the blogs and threads you can find on here but still, there's nothing like good old final questions.

MOD:

It's a choice between the Koopor Plus and Wismec 200RX.

Because they're each like $40 roughly if you know where to look.

Question:

Say I used batteries of the exact same caliber for both mods, two in the Koopor and three in the RX200, would the battery life in the RX200 be extended enough to make a huge difference? Any thoughts?

MOD SAFETY:

Let's face it, the RX200 has a blow-up story, and several reports of the LCD getting very hot at around 120w+, and what some builders say is weak wiring. God knows, as this is really one of the first cheap, mass produced triple battery mods.

Question:

Is it really safe? Hoping to hear from the real Mr. Gadgets on this one.

MOD FEATURES:

Both mods are said to have safety features galore, but so do guns.

Question:

Which mod between the two specifically has the best safety features? Personally, I trust SMOK a little more, as not only has one of the Wismecs blown up, but the Wismec chip is by Joyetech, in which their mods are causing their SubOhm tanks to shoot out fire left and right appearantly, because of some sort of mystery chip issue.

BUT I need thoughts.

BATTERIES:

So I've gathered that simply put, ordering a Sony VCT5 from Illumination may just be the absolute only authentic 18650 battery on the planet and that everything else is a sheer gamble. Who knows but I can't find much else in terms of answers.

Question:

For both mods, which I'll be running the TFV4 Mini at 80-140w (I have no doubt the wattage will be going high with that new Octuple Fused Clapton Coil), are the VTC5's the best bet? Anything else?

BATTERY SAFETY:

So both mods do 200w, which is indeed puzzling as really, 2 batteries probably wouldn't manage to pack over 50amps best-case scenario, and 3... 75 at best?

Question:

For those that REALLY know batteries like an expert, is it really even safe to run 200w's on 3 batteries? Much less 2? How in the world does the Koopor do it? 100w per battery... my EFEST doesn't run anything over 35w most of the time. What gives?

CHARGER:

I can get a good deal on a Nitecore D4.

Question:

I've heard that the NiteCore D4 charges different bays based on what mood it's in, basically. Since marrying the batteries is key, wouldn't this divorce them?

Any chargers that are better suited and/or required?

tank:

TFV4 Mini.

Question:

Has anyone had any problems AT ALL with this version of the tank spitting, leaking, or getting scalding and/or o-rings melting?

Thanks for bearing with these questions! I think this will help a ton of folks stepping into this 200w arena!

 

[daviedog]

Guns are far 'safer' than the media would have you believe..

 

[Hans Wermhat]

I can't offer any advise on the mods or tank, but I can suggest VTC4's not VTC5's. They will handle the 100+W load better and be safer. They will need to be charged slightly more often, but the difference at those kinds of wattages will be less than a half hour of vape time. Orbtronic.com is another good source for authentic batteries, also illumin.com.

 

[Submarine123]

Smith & Wismec.

And neither Illumi or Orb have VCT4's in stock.. what's truly the next best thing?

 

[crxess]

Let's face it, the RX200 has a blow-up story, and several reports of the LCD getting very hot at around 120w+, and what some builders say is weak wiring. God knows, as this is really one of the first cheap, mass produced triple battery mods.

I will disagree with this on grounds of inexperienced user reports and typical assumption making.

Assembly and Comparisons at 32:30 Same heavy Gauge as DNA Version.



I would highly recommend using a Good External Charger to keep Batteries properly married.

We lived through the Claims of Mass Fires on Cloupor mini30w devices, all 50 or so that heat failed from an IC mix up.(batch 2 - 50 of 10,000). I'm sure we will get through this one.

Both of your Choices are decent for the price point. For better assurance - Spend More.
Remember there is always a % of defects in Mass produced product.

 

[papergoblin]

I have the rx200 and did get some heat from the screen in the 100w and above range but with the new update it has stopped. I am using LG HE2 batteries and works great, 2 of the batteries are brand new and one is about 2 months old and has been used singularly. I have measure SAG on all three and each is close to the other, I will after Christmas buy 3 batteries to make a truly married set just to be safe. I do however refuse to use the built in charging, I use a nitecore 2 bay and an efest single smart charger. I then put the one charged on the smart, on the nitecore to read the actual voltage. The only thing I really don't like on the rx is the built in charging, I just think that is a bad idea, too much heat and stress inside the mod. If people want to charge through the mod, at the very least, they should remove the cover for more ventilation, IMHO.

 

[Submarine123]

Buy Now - Pegasus Vapor Academy

I think I'm going to give these guys a shot. The reviewer in the video above seemed to test all these out and it seems like a company that's super honest and actually admit every single thing exactly as it seems to be, simply re-wrapping the way it should be done (why can't EFEST just do this!?!?)

Only question is for these mods, is what "Type" of battery to get. There's one rated for 100w-150w, one for around 150w-200w, and one even down in the 70w range.

When it comes to tanks like the TFV4, the coils range from needing 30w all the way to 160w. Will the more powerful types fire low watts just as safely? What in the world do I get?

And on the Koopor, there's what seems to be a delay (seems severe) and reports that the fire-up setting is insane, that even at the lowest setting it will blast a coil at 100w's or higher no matter what for the first bit - that'd ruin a coil for sure but I don't know if I'm understanding that right.

Oh and about the charger again it seems with the NiteCore that every other bay charges at a different rate? Any info on that and if it hurts anything?

 

[daviedog]

I have a nitecore & each bay charges independently.
Maybe your batteries are at different levels of charge?..

 

[Submarine123]

Well I just plunged down for the Koopor Plus and Smok TFV4 Mini.

I am so far not %100 confident in the purchase but... I got the set from ECIG-CITY, $62 total including shipping and shipped from US.

I could not pass it up.

BUT I am STILL on the fence about the batteries. I will flat out be using this mod on all the Smok coils which range from like 0.16ohms to 1.5ohm. The 0.16 is an octuple fused clapton. Requiring up the possibility of 180w's. Then some of their coils enjoy down to 40w's. What battery could handle all that? For sure?

And idk about Pegasus now, I'd like to trust em but appearantly they had a big ol bust about a mod they tried to make. Lots of angry customers. Maybe Illumi's still the best bet but what exact battery for such high power?

 

[IMFire3605]

I will answer this as far as batteries. Being both are in series stacked configuration to gain wattage through raw voltage instead of raw amps, the Kooper (8.4v full charge, 6.4v low charge), the RX200 (12.6v full charge, 9.6v low charge).

The Kooper dual battery
200watts/6.4v=31.25amps each battery has to be able to provide

Sony VTC3 - 1600mah, True 30amp CDR
LG HB6 - 1500mah, True 30amp CDR
"No Other batteries on the market surpass True 30amp CDR on the market at present, no matter what Efest and other re-wrap manufacturers say, 30amps is the top end"
Alternate to these 2 is the Sony VTC4 - 2100mah, 20 to 25amp CDR capable of sustaining 30amp CDR but you will cap out at about 180watts with them, 30amp CDR is not unreasonable with these, 31.25amps is asking to much from a battery already giving 120%

The RX200 triple battery
200watts/9.6v=20.8333amps all 3 batteries must be able to provide

Sony VTC3
LG HB6
Sony VTC4
Samsung 25R - 2500mah, 20amp CDR capable of sustaining 25amp CDR
LG HE2/HE4 - 2500mah, 20amp CDR capable of sustaining 25amp CDR
LG HG2 - 3000mah, 20amp CDR
Sony VTC5 - 2600mah, 20amp CDR capable of sustaining 25amp CDR
AW IMR 2200mah 20amp
AW IMR 3000mah 20amp

I understand your nervousness about a 200watt mod, "Ohm's Law" applies yes, but not the standard Amps=Voltage/Resistance you use with a mech, in a regulated mod you use the formula above, technically "Watts Law", regulated mods pull the most amps at lowest battery charge state, examples above are for a series config, which voltage is multiplied by #of batteries, CDR and mAh stay the same as a single battery, parallel is different, voltage of a single battery, but CDR and mAh is multiplied by #of batteries (iStick100watt for example here, 2x batteries in parallel, 4.2v full charge, 3.2v lowest charge, mAh X2, CDR X2, Sony VTC4 as example, would be x2 in the iStick, 4.2v/3.2v, 4200mAh (2100mAh X2), 40amp CDR (20amp CDR X2), so listed above are the max amps each mod can potentially pull, not actually pull.

Chargers
The Nitecore D4 is a nice trickle charger, the whimsical nature of it is in its firmware programming, starts off really low to detect battery type, once it gathers that it determines charge state of the battery, if charge state is low, gradually ramps up to about .75amp charge rate, once at 80% gradually decreases to 0.25amp trickle charge to finish the charge cycle, this is in the instance of 2 batteries charging at once on one of the channels, channel 1 = bay 1 and 3, channel 2 = bay 2 and 4. Protection feature that caps out max charge current is around 2amps, I am no expert but this is what I have witnessed with the Nitecore charger line compared to others.

Efest LUC line - These are similar to the Nitecore line in charging algorithms, but do have some over-ride ability, 0.5amp per bay, 1amp per bay, or 2amps in just bay 2 and 3 (LUC V4), LUC V2 2amp mode is both bays, LUC V6 I have not witnessed, but assume it operates similar to the LUC V4, max 4amps charge current.

Xtar Line - Xtar has 3 overrides like the Efest LUC, though with Xtar it is 0.25, 0.5, 1amp modes. They are pricier than Nitecore and Efest LUC's, excellent warranty, and great chargers. Personally I own a Nitecore i4 (predacessor to the D4), Efest LUC V4, an Xtar WP4 and just recently purchased a Xtar VC4. Out of all of them I prefer the LUC V4 when mobile and carry with me, the WP4 and VC4 when at home for most my charging needs throughout the day, and the Nitecore i4 at the end of the week I use to trickle charge all my batteries I've used throughout the week to trickle charge slowly and condition the batteries.

I'd recommend though either the VC4 first, LUC V4 second, D4 if money is an issue in that order.

The safety concerns of hot screens and the likes with the RX200, as posted above, with the firmware upgraded that issue has been addressed. Discounting Joyetech or their affiliates is a bit premature. 99.99% of all vaping accidents or incidents are 100% user error or "Stupidity", pushing the limits and redlining a drag racing car, eventually you are going to blow a motor and cause a fire, this has been my observations, though many cry foul on the manufacturer, I look at the user first and ask what were they doing to cause the incident. Grandfather imparted to me this piece of wisdom, don't blame the device as stupid, it is smarter than you are, being a machine, the person that designed and engineered it is way more smarter than you are, so that intelligence is translated into their creation. Joyetech has been in the vaping game longer than most, predating Innokin, Smok, and several other Chinese manufacturers, not to say they do not have their bad days from time to time, but they have more money and patience to try to get it right the first time. Any mod repeatedly pushed to its maximum limits, just like a drag car, will eventually fail, law and nature of the beast, 80w to 140w using a TFV4, either mod will work for you though I do not own either mod, I do own a TFV4 Mini I run on my Sigelei 150watt, spit back is just like any other tank, pull on it as hard as trying to pull chrome off a bumper you will get spit back, again nature of the beast, but I rarely get any spit back doing a normal draw I do with my Subtanks and Uwell Crown I get no spit back due to the great airflow it has. Heat production, after about 6 back to back hits using the quad coil head, base gets a little toasty, similar to an actual RDA top cap with a quad coil, no gaskets melting down to date (owned it a month now), taken it up toward 125watts, no issues, normal running between 65 to 75watts, great performing tank, though a full day of use, have to refill it about 6 times, thristy thirsty tank.

 

[Super Flex]

I have the RX 200 and I charge the batteries In a nitecore charger to keep them married and because I don't push fate, it's up to you I have had no problems from the rx200 and the tvf4 tank I have three tanks two set up as temp control ( nickel and titanium) and one as a three coil cloud chaser at 90 to 130 watts and I have no problems. It's up to you but get a charger.

 

[Submarine123]

I do see the HB6 on Illumn. Am I best off getting that if I'm looking to test things out up to probably 150w? Is there any harm in running it quite low watts too or can you only run high drain with high power?

Or if 150w may be around my max, am I better off just sticking with the standard stuff?

 

[LimJaheyyy]

Own both colors of full sized tfv4, no problems with either

 

[stylemessiah]

Happy Xtar battery charger owner - though i only have the VC2 its by far better than any other charger ive tried and will actually stop charging when the battery is full unlike others.. Plus the display is awesome

Got a TFV4 Mini almost 2 weeks ago, little bit of leaking right after filling (even if i pulled a vacuum as i reopened the airflow after filling) - seems to have been solved by screwing the rebuildable deck (or coil if you use them, i dont) into the chimney section first, then screwing the base onto the rebuildable/coil. Other than that its a great tank. since im using the RCA, im only hitting it at 30w, so no RX200 needed here, its warm enough at 30w, with the drip tip airflow open to cool things down a bit. once i get tired of the prefitted clapton, it will be gettign a stainless coil for temp control, and the heat madness will end.

Have a mix of Samsung 25R and LG HE2/HE4 batteries - since im only using a 60w (SX Mini M) mod and a 75w (Smok TreeBox) mod never saw the point of more expensive Sony batteries which people seem to be fascinated by. One of those things i think is more cache' than reality. <-theres a lot of that in vaping i personally think. All of these huge wattage devices are pushing current batteries to the edge, mind you, single battery 75w mods are the same. Im using temp control and hit about 26w for my 210c on stainless, so i dont have to worry, and anyways youre only going to get to the edge and get that 75w on a 75w single battery mod in vw mode and depending on your coil build.

 

[Submarine123]

Does the Koopor read out the exact battery voltage levels so that you can keep them married? If not, what is the absolute cheapest charger on Lumin that shows that info and truly shuts off when needed?

 

[Rabbit Slayer]

Don't get anything, every single mod out has a battery in it that has vented at least once before

 

[stylemessiah]

Does the Koopor read out the exact battery voltage levels so that you can keep them married? If not, what is the absolute cheapest charger on Lumin that shows that info and truly shuts off when needed?

Been answered twice - Xtar

 

[IMFire3605]

Does the Koopor read out the exact battery voltage levels so that you can keep them married? If not, what is the absolute cheapest charger on Lumin that shows that info and truly shuts off when needed?

The Xtar VC line and Efest LUC Line have digital displays and display battery charge level in numbers, ie 3.6v or 4.2v just like the Nitecore D2 and D4 models do.

/Edit
click the link in my Signature, it links to a blog post I have done breaking down a lot of the batteries for different wattage applications as well as chargers, and other reputable, authorized battery retailers that sell batteries and chargers, Illumn being one of the 5 I recommend.

 

[Liskrig]

I have the full-size TFv4, and when I chain-vape it with the clapton coils, it gets warm, never "woah that's hot" temps, but it will heat up. I can imagine a similar thing happens with the mini because they use the same coils, but an overall smaller size. I won one during the last ECF contest and have yet to receive it to confirm

 

[Submarine123]

So here's the purchase:

-Koopor Plus
-Smok TFV4 Mini
- 2x Samsung 25r
- Xtar VC2
- Xtar adapter (>.>)

I guess as a final question, does the VC2 marry batteries correctly and show battery voltage level well enough to keep an eye on the marrying? It is literally all I could afford in the XTAR range. Any reason I should cancel?