The ANTZ have stooped to new lows

[Oberon75]

I came across this video the other day from the Truth Initiative about teens and vaping. Not only is it total BS but they went as far as to steal social media content from adult vapers and pass them off as teens. I know some of these people, they are in their 20's and even early 30's and one even owns a fairly successful juice company. If you read the comment section, you will even see them get called out by some of the content owners. Is this even legal?

Truth Initiative

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[Rossum]

"Truth Initiative: Inspiring tobacco-free lives"

Then tell the truth: vaping is tobacco-free.

Bah. Taking a quick look at their website, there'e not much truth to be found. For example, they take credit for youth use if cigarettes being at an all-time low of under 6%. Does anyone here really believe this would have happened without vaping being available as a substitute?

 

[Rossum]

Is this even legal?

Possibly. The clips are short enough that the "fair use" doctrine/defense might be applicable.

Of course that doesn't address the ethical question of misrepresentation.

 

[QcVaper]

Not their first video and they lie on each and every single one of em,they don't even seem to know what's a pod mod and call every other a "clone" where'as i think anything is better than a Juul imho since i'd much more prefer a refilable one.

 

[smacuser]

one even owns a fairly successful juice company.

Zophie?

 

[zoiDman]

... For example, they take credit for youth use if cigarettes being at an all-time low of under 6%. Does anyone here really believe this would have happened without vaping being available as a substitute?

This is what must be the Stick in the Craw for many ANTZ (and Government/Health Agencies).

Because they did Everything Possible and beat Youth smoking down to a Flat Baseline. But they Couldn't get the Numbers Lower.

Then e-Cigarettes come along and they see Significant Drops in Youth (as well as Adult) Smoking Rates.

So they have to come up with a New Spin. Instead of Giving Caesar what Caesar is Due.

 

[Izan]

I came across this video the other day from the Truth Initiative about teens and vaping. Not only is it total BS but they went as far as to steal social media content from adult vapers and pass them off as teens. I know some of these people, they are in their 20's and even early 30's and one even owns a fairly successful juice company. If you read the comment section, you will even see them get called out by some of the content owners. Is this even legal?

Truth Initiative

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

The CEO (Robin Koval) is a professional liar, Oh sorry, "A leader in the world of advertising and marketing,"
What more can be expected?

Cheers
I

 

[Surf Monkey]

Then tell the truth: Vaping is tobacco-free.

You’ve been here long enough to know that’s not accurate, Rossum. The vast majority of nicotine used in e-liquid comes from tobacco plants. That doesn’t make them tobacco products, but it also doesn’t make them tobacco free. You’d have to derive the nicotine from some other source for that to be the case.

 

[Rossum]

You’ve been here long enough to know that’s not accurate, Rossum. The vast majority of nicotine used in e-liquid comes from tobacco plants. That doesn’t make them tobacco products, but it also doesn’t make them tobacco free. You’d have to derive the nicotine from some other source for that to be the case.

The vast majority of the caffeine used in caffeinated beverages (sodas, energy drinks, etc) is derived from coffee or tea. Yet nobody contends that they such beverages are coffee or tea.

Then there's the fact that tobacco contains an entire cocktail of psychoactive compounds, several of which have been shown in animal studies to act synergistically with nicotine, greatly increasing nicotine's addictive potential.

 

[NGAHaze]

The vast majority of the caffeine used in caffeinated beverages (sodas, energy drinks, etc) is derived from coffee or tea. Yet nobody contends that they such beverages are coffee or tea.

While I'm reluctant to support Surf's point, I don't think that is true, at least not anymore. I believe most caffeine used today in beverages ( where it does not naturally occur ) is chemically synthesized and obtained primarily from China. There was a situation a while back where the EU banned the import of caffeine from China because Chinese officials would not let them inspect the plant where it was being produced. I remember this because I was disappointed that our own FDA did not require the same. Instead, they (FDA) felt self reporting was an adequate measure despite previous instances that proved otherwise. Go figure ...

That said, I agree with you. I don't consider nicotine by itself to be 'Tobacco' despite it's origin. It can be extracted from other sources, it's just not cost effective to do so.

 

[Surf Monkey]

The vast majority of the caffeine used in caffeinated beverages (sodas, energy drinks, etc) is derived from coffee or tea. Yet nobody contends that they such beverages are coffee or tea.

They’re caffeine products.

Then there's the fact that tobacco contains an entire cocktail of psychoactive compounds, several of which have been shown in animal studies to act synergistically with nicotine, greatly increasing nicotine's addictive potential.

That doesn’t support your previous attempt to distance nicotine from tobacco. It does the opposite by drawing nicotine and related substances derived from the plant CLOSER together.

 

[Vapefiend]

What blows my mind is the Juul challenge I heard in the video. Everything’s a challenge these days.

 

[Oberon75]

Zophie? [emoji38]

The Last Machine which is an affiliate of Independent Vapor Company

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[dustmite]

What blows my mind is the Juul challenge I heard in the video. Everything’s a challenge these days.

And no one tried to outlaw laundry during the Tide pod fiasco...

 

[zoiDman]

Not to Propagate a big Is it a "Tobacco Product" or Not discussion. Because I think that Ship has Sailed. Just something to consider...

Is this item Statutorily defined as "Tobacco Product"?

I Don't believe it is. I believe it is Statutorily defined as a Drug Delivery Device.

Because of the Intended Use. ie: Cessation of Smoking verses Recreational Use

We had to go down the Recreational Use route in Court back in 2009/2010. The Alternative was Unacceptable.

So from a Statutory standpoint, if the e-Liquids we use contain Nicotine which is Derived from Tobacco, then the e-Liquid is a "Tobacco Product".

Like it or Not. That is what we Successfully Argued for in Court. And that is what we Got.

 

[Baditude]

There was a situation a while back where the EU banned the import of caffeine from China because Chinese officials would not let them inspect the plant where it was being produced. I remember this because I was disappointed that our own FDA did not require the same. Instead, they (FDA) felt self reporting was an adequate measure despite previous instances that proved otherwise. Go figure ...

We are in the middle of a really serious opioids crisis in the US, with hundreds of opioid addicts dying every day. Yet I saw on the news last night that the FDA just approved a new opioid pill that is 10 times stronger than fentanyl and 100 times stronger than morphine. Now please tell me, what is the logic of that? Big Pharma wins again. Go figure...

FDA approves powerful new opioid in controversial move

 

[zoiDman]

Not to Propagate a big Is it a "Tobacco Product" or Not discussion. Because I think that Ship has Sailed. Just something to consider...

Is this item Statutorily defined as "Tobacco Product"?

I Don't believe it is. I believe it is Statutorily defined as a Drug Delivery Device.

Because of the Intended Use. ie: Cessation of Smoking verses Recreational Use

We had to go down the Recreational Use route in Court back in 2009/2010. The Alternative was Unacceptable.

So from a Statutory standpoint, if the e-Liquids we use contain Nicotine which is Derived from Tobacco, then the e-Liquid is a "Tobacco Product".

Like it or Not. That is what we Successfully Argued in Court. And that is what we Got.

ETA:

I Don't see a Problem with an e-Liquid that contains Nicotine which was Derived from Tobacco being defined as a Tobacco Product. That Isn't where the Problem Lies.

The Problem Lies when an Antiquated and Draconian FDA pounded the Round Peg of e-Cigarettes into the Square, One Size Fits All, Hole of Combustible Tobacco Regulations.

 

[untar]

The Last Machine which is an affiliate of Independent Vapor Company

TLM, IVC and some other trademarks (Motown Sweets and Nillionaire) all belong to (and were registered by) Flat Iron LLC. TLM was founded by Ryan Wagner and Andrew Byrd (and afaik is still run by them). So without evidence I'm not inclined to believe that Zophie owns any of those.

Disclaimer:
I'm not a Zophie fanboyee, I just want to know if what you said is verifyable

 

[Uncle Willie]

Not their first video and they lie on each and every single one of em,they don't even seem to know what's a pod mod and call every other a "clone" where'as i think anything is better than a Juul imho since i'd much more prefer a refilable one.

JUUL is refillable .. it's easy ..

 

[Anise]

Wow @Uncle Willie! I don't think I've ever seen you on the rest of the board!