The average smoker will not Vape

[milo hobo]

It really doesn't help that you have to actually look around and get information from several different places to get the whole picture. Think about it this way: if you wanted to find information about bicycles, you can go to a bicycle shop and they may be able to explain different models and types, mountain and recombent, etc. However, you go to a venders site, they might say if it is 510, 808, etc, but not always. Nor do they explain how to get the most out of your product and how to avoid problems. I have had to accumulate many questions and answers over the last 8 months, and have popped in here, youtube, and google searches to figure it mostly out. Months of research. It also helps that I have a cousin who is in the business and can help with questions on occassion. The only money I've made on my research is the money I have saved by not buying things on impulse.

And now I'm am getting nervous because I am in the market for my wife, who will be a newbie as well. All of the struggles I've had, I don't want her to give up. I don't want her to get overwhelmed, and I sure don't want her to keep smoking. So even when you are seasoned, making new purchases can be nerve racking.

 

[FRANKSTER]

It really doesn't help that you have to actually look around and get information from several different places to get the whole picture. Think about it this way: if you wanted to find information about bicycles, you can go to a bicycle shop and they may be able to explain different models and types, mountain and recombent, etc. However, you go to a venders site, they might say if it is 510, 808, etc, but not always. Nor do they explain how to get the most out of your product and how to avoid problems. I have had to accumulate many questions and answers over the last 8 months, and have popped in here, youtube, and google searches to figure it mostly out. Months of research. It also helps that I have a cousin who is in the business and can help with questions on occassion. The only money I've made on my research is the money I have saved by not buying things on impulse.

And now I'm am getting nervous because I am in the market for my wife, who will be a newbie as well. All of the struggles I've had, I don't want her to give up. I don't want her to get overwhelmed, and I sure don't want her to keep smoking. So even when you are seasoned, making new purchases can be nerve racking.

Hello there, Only one purchase did I make on sheer impulse and that was my first. The second, third and fourth were based on some research and mostly you tube recommendations. The batteries were defected on 2 of those three and there is no research in the world that would have made a difference. Now with my k-go and silver bullet I am pretty much ok. My biggest problem now is the juice. I cannot tolerate what I have and everything I have was done with a tremendous amount of research.

Let me back up a little, I started this thread with the argument that the average smoker would not vape and I think I have a valid argument. When the computer first appeared on the scene, it was new and it was complicated. Now, you have computers that are super powerful and (easy, that's the word) to use. On the other hand, The vaping industry just goes in the opposite direction, They make vaping more powerful and more enjoyable, but they have failed miserably in the easy to use category. In my opinion, they should look to the computer and take the same approach.

They should look at those first models that came out ( the ones that look like a real analog) and make them more powerful and make them go to 6 volts. Soon, no-one is even going to be selling those e-cigs (analog type) because the vaping community has moved on to all these complex mod and tanks and dual coil etc. etc. Wrong way to go in my opinion. The average smoker does not want to hear about voltage and watts and ohms. That is for sure.

Most post to this thread have not dealt with the opening argument...I am talking about the average smoker, not about the person who is into technology and likes to fiddle around with mods and such. If this industry wants the average smoker they must come to him, not move further away, and that is what is happening. Maybe the people in the vaping community are fine with the small community they have and that is fine with me. You are just not going to get the average smoker to deal with these complexities. I understand that it is really not that complicated once you are in it for a while, but there are many things in life that are simple, but are not obvious and this is one of such things.

By the way, if you are looking for something for your wife to get started on...you should go to crystal clear vaping, they have something called the e-power pv. I heard good thing about it.

The FRANKSTER needs cash to buy more juice...where is the juice baby!

 

[Vapeterry]

@thomasward85- i do not mean to hi-jack this thread, i think it is o.k. to say i am in the same boat, kinda. i am still trying to figure vaping out for me & found out that my brother-in-law needs to quit smoking for immediate health reasons- so, i am really trying to figure out what to suggest- i need to call him today. i promised my sister last nite when we were discussing my new vaping.They live in another state, so i will have to do my best. i do not want him to struggle the same as i have so far.

 

[Vapeterry]

FRANKSTER, I know what you mean, i did not even deal with flashlite or remote batts befor i was widowed, so it has been difficult- i am quite challenged with all including my 1st laptop!!!

 

[FRANKSTER]

FRANKSTER, I know what you mean, i did not even deal with flashlite or remote batts befor i was widowed, so it has been difficult- i am quite challenged with all including my 1st laptop!!!

You got it right...when you are vaping for a while you can tell people who you know how to get started, I wish that I had that. I hear good things about the e-power at crystal clear vaping. They also have a tobacco juice that is really good. I just cannot vape it for more than an hour. It's called Black n Mild...real good

 

[milo hobo]

You said it better than I can Frankster. Vaping moved away from what brought smokers to vaping. The further and further the industry moves, the harder it is to convert people away from what is killing them. Like I said, I've have spent alot of time researching this too, and it is still confusing and I agree. We need a first class analog-look-alike pv, or several. EGo has dominated the performance style, but even that isn't as fiddle free as I would want it to be. Cartomizers seem to be the way to go, but I don't want to use a cartomizer.

So yes, we agree, it is way too complicated especially for anyone just starting out. And if I've understood correctly, relying on online reviews isn't a sure bet either. ECF has been my primary source of solid reviews, and youtube is generally just to get a picture of something in action. However, I don't think that this is healthy for the industry. I would imagine that if the industry is to move forward, equipment would have to be standardized to be more compatible, the fear of FDA, ALA, AHA, ASH, BT, and BP backlash would have to be abated, and cartridges would finally go away. Darn, leaky cartridges ruined my vaping experiences for the first month.

When I was saying that I had to do and continue to do research on this, I don't mean it to sound like I'm bragging, or that everyone should do their research. What I mean it that an industry in its prime doesn't require its consumer to have to do tons of research just to make it work. I don't think that have to do months of research to make tobacco cigarettes work, zippos to work, televisions to work, ad etc. Vaping is in its infancy in America (its been around longer than we've seen it here) and I think that we will eventually get there, it just might take the right company to make it happen.

 

[simplyme82]

Sounds like there is a hole in the business where someone with the technological background could capitalize and kill in the market.

The question is, who's gonna be the one to make a good product that just works without changing, adding, removing, modding or whatever else we do to simulate the experience of smoking? Maybe it's not possible.

 

[alanselo]

Frankster just want to thank you for making me laugh so much and forgive me I am not laughing at you but the tenacity and unrelenting desire to make it work, not to mention how much you spent! My admiration. I would have given up as most folks would too. Good write up too. All around a great post.

I do hope you find what works for you. I got pretty discouraged at first too, though not right away so I had a glimmer of hope after things started going down hill for me after the thrid day.

I personally now use a variable voltage box mod, sometimes referred to as a garage door opener. It works great for me. The other thing I found that works great is a carto tank, regardless of whether it is a dc carto tank (cheap 11 bucks or so) or a DIY syringe tank (a couple of bucks). No dry burns and always at the ready.

I have a feeling you will get what works for you. Good job and thanks for posting.

I am sure this will be the motivation for many to keep at it. It is definitely worth it folks!

 

[dragonbone]

Most of us here have been through a variation of this. We were all determined to give up smoking. We may not have bunt so many, many cartomizers as you lol. Actually in my own case, every single ecig I ever bought was still working after several years (although I gave all my minis away a few months ago).

 

[Denise D]

I totally agree with Frankster! Thank goodness for ECF I found the beginner's info which said to buy a 510 Starter Kit. In less than one month I have ordered three different Starter Kits (Riva 510, a 901 to see if it was any better, and last week the Riva UNC with 1100 battery) plus a whole lot of liquids I don't like. I currently aspire to get a Reo Grand and hope that will be the end of basic equipment purchasing, although the REOs do not come with all the necessary parts!

It all makes me think of Cars. I want a Car I get in, turn the key, it starts, I drive where I want to go. I don't want to have to build it or work on it. I wash and wax mine every once in awhile and that is more than a lot of people do.
Some people really get into cars, they do all the maintenance, they modify, they rebuild and restore, etc. I'm glad they get pleasure from it, and I don't mind standing by to hand over a screwdriver or something, as long as I don't have to do the work.

It would be nice to find a simple & clean e-cig I can just turn the key and drive! I'd like to convert the few remaining smokers I know to the PV but I think they will have the same equipment issues I have plus they won't want to do the research, which at least I enjoy that part of it (usually).

I could care less what the PV looks like as long as it delivers nicotine the way my brain likes it with some nice vapor and a minimum of fuss and mess. I do not need it to look or taste like an analog, and maybe that is where development is getting hung up.

To add to your e-liquid woes, I realized even before my first order arrived in the mail I did not even want the tobacco flavors I ordered. Sometimes coffee, fruit or mint flavors are fun, but 90% of the time I use Unflavored. Also you may be having strength issues which is a whole 'nother thing my advice is get Unflavored in several different strengths and figure out what strength you prefer for the equipment you have.

Congratulations for hanging in there you are a ROCK!

 

[alanselo]

Sorry about my prior post not addressing your concern. I'll give it another try. From my perspective it is up to us to help promote vaping as a viable alternative to smoking. VIABLE DOABLE ALTERNATIVE! The more we work at it the better for all of us, smokers included.

Most new products go through the infancy stage where there is a big painful learning curve for both the user and producer. The more the product becomes visible and accessible and the more consumers then the more solutions will come our way. Some of the things that happen here, modding, requests, and ideas to improve the vaping experience do help the innovation and evolution of e-cigs. Some suppliers do take note.

At the moment, from what I see and hear, there are no brick and mortar places one can go and personally try things out. For the big majority it is done online by looking at pics and reading reviews. That in itself makes it difficult to feel what is right for oneself and get decent guidance.

As far as I am concerned the mall shops and other questionable suppliers only hurt our cause. We must demand better products and stop using those who would take advantage. The mall shops turned me right off and kept me from taking it seriously when I first started looking into it a year ago. A year later I just had to do something and thank goodness I found this site. I have faith that the more of us there are and the more of us who complain of faulty gear the better it will get.

As far as I am concerned there are simple, cheap and effective ways to vape. Part of the problem is that those alternatives do not look like a cigarette and most of us start with the idea that that is what we want and need. I did it too at the beginning. Nothing to be ashamed about.

My 2 cents... Hope it helps answer the intent of your post.

 

[rubin12]

I have been vaping about 7 weeks, and in that time I have come up against one road block after another. Vaping has to be made less complex than what I have seen thus far. It is way out of hand and the average smoker(unless he has friends that vape) will never get involved in something that seems to be incredibly complicated. Let me present what has happened to me thus far...if it were not for the fact that I am a neurotic, I would have stopped the first day out of the box.

My first experience was to go online to buy tobacco and saw for 15$ an e-cig. I purchased it to give it a try. It came with very little instructions but I put the three pieces together. I took a few drags on it...there was little vapor and absolutely no th. I went to waste basket and tossed it. Right at this point, the average smoker would end it right there.

I being me was interested even though this first try failed. My second go at it was a a online vendor from china. I spent about a 100 dollars. I purchased 2 batteries not having any idea what to expect. I also purchased pre-filled cartomizers(having no idea what ohms they were) and why would I know such a thing. The came with the usual stuff and I also purchased some juice. The batteries died in 2 weeks, the pe-filled cartos made me sick and the juice was worse. This was the end, I said to myself.

I went on the internet and saw a vapor4life video...I spent another 150 dollars on 2 more batteries(510 batteries) with juice and cartos(again pre-filled and blanks) Again, the 2 batteries die on me in 2 weeks. The pre-filled cartos tasted like vomit(I am serious) and the juice had no taste, and no th. I said this is definitly the end of my vaping experience, but it was not.

I went back online and found GRIMMGREENE...I watch almost every video he had. I said this time I got it. I went out and purchased the volt. I got lucky, one battery worked and the other was very weak. The good one was not giving me any power. Long story short, I sent it back...Also the I watched a few videos by the Grimm on juices. Most made me sick except the Dulsis...First primer puff and I said to myself this is the real deal. I think I was right b/c I have not tasted anything that even comes close.

Now, I need a new e-cig...I see the Grimm do the k-go and I go out and spend another 60 dollars for that plus I spent about 150 on juices, I only liked the dulcis and the rest went in the trash. I purchase blank cartos, ccv 1.7. I put about 15 drops in one, and it was burnt, I tried another and it was burnt...long story short 3 out of 5 are burnt. Send e-mail, talk on the phone with Brent. He sends me 3 cartos, I put about 15 drops in all burnt that is 6 out of 8. I did not realize that I was supposed to put 30 or so drops in. Why should I know that if I am not told. No smoker will go half this far.

The k-go was and is still working great. Now I see all these mods and start hearing about volts and amps and ohms and wattage, (please you are killing me) I say to myself this is so out of hand, noone would go through this.

I want now to do 6volts...thinking I am shortchanging myself out of something better. I spend over a 100 dollars and I purchase the silver bullet. I buy the 18650 battery with the charger, but as you know that is only vaping at 3.7. I purchased this to voly at 6volts(why else would I purchase this) I go out and but the rcr123a protected batteries, then I hear The Grimm mention that they blew up in someone's face(that's nice). I say the hell with it...I stack it and vape, not realizing I am using lr 510 cartos. They all fried.

Meanwhile almost every juice that I am trying seems to get worse and worse...I smoked the most horrible tobacco in the world and never got sick. This juice was literally making me sick. Now I purchase more juice going for more money and I purchase the ressurector from ccv. I dry burn 9 out of 10 cartos, then I find out through Andrew(great guy) that I should put about 70 drops LMAO. how was I supposed to know that...He sent me more and they work great. There is no way in hell that the average smoker is going to go through this. You could take it to the bank...not happening.

I did not finish yet. I go out and buy dual-coil cartos to use on the sb at 6v they are 1.5-1.7 ohms...I put them on the silver bullet at 6volts and nothing...I put a couple of boge 510's it fires up and of course they are burnt and go to the trash. Now, I am being asked to find out what class of batteries these are( people are you getting this) I am not a scientist and nor should I have to be to vape. I go online and see what class batteries are...I'm looking at words like amperes per hour or something like that. I just start laughing...you must be kidding me!

This is where I stand right now...I have no all day vape juice. What I do have, I cannot vape for more than an hour so I go from one carto to another vaping juice I do not really like.( the DULSIS will be ready in 2 weeks) LMAO. I will be smoking again in 2 weeks. Someone somewhere must come into this and simplify this or the millions of smokers out there will never, and I mean never be involved in this. I'm involved because I love the idea and it seems to be alot fun even I am not having a great experience with juices. If you do not have the right juice, it does not how many mods you have, they are all useless without the juice.

This is my opinion and I think it is pretty close to the truth. I have friends that smoke and you tell them about a few details and it's over. They will never get involved. One more thing I purchased 4 attys for about 30 dollars and then realized. Am I going to be in the street and taking a bottle out of my pocket and start dripping. I do not think so. I agree that you get more vapor, th and flavor...I mind as well smoke hash if I am going to do that and I will probably get locked up in New York("wait officer, I am dripping into my atty,) come on people.

Someone, please simplify this stuff! I am tired of writing...good day to one and all.

If only you'd started out with C-E2's!

 

[Denise D]

It also occurs to me Big Tobacco has probably spent BILLIONS on research to create the penultimate experience and keep you hooked for life.

The PV requires you to do your own research (with help from your ECF friends!) and you are the Test Subject. But it is all so worth it to get off those analogs!!

 

[Baldr]

However, you go to a venders site, they might say if it is 510, 808, etc, but not always.

That used to bug me. Then I decided that any vendor who doesn't explain that kind of thing should simply be avoided. It's one of the ways you can tell the good vendors from the bad ones.

 

[charmed412]

I feel your pain. I am 13 months into vaping actually today. I know I am one of those vapers who likes fiddle free vaping, but I was one of those people who had to try every new thing that came out and I am on an extremely limited budget. But I was determined to make this work and though it has been a roller coaster ride, it did work and I can't see myself going back ever. The key is to do your research and find what works for YOU. Vaping is subjective. What works for me may not work for you. My future husband's vaping styles and tastes are completely opposite of mine.

I also am one of those who enjoys the hobby aspect of vaping. It is fun to try new things and see what everyone else has and likes. I am a recovering juice junkie and a diehard mod ..... and tank ......

What keeps me vaping though is this community. I have never been a part of a better community. They helped me get started and they keep me going on a daily basis. All of my best friends are part of my vapey family on the other side of the screen. I met my future husband in the vaping twitterverse. My vapey family have been with me through every stumble and triumph I have had this past year. They supported me when I slipped back to analogs when during my second round of chemo/radiation my go-to mods all broke at the same time and I could only vape banana flavored juices without getting sick.
I have brain cancer, currently in remission, and I have chemo brain which means I suffer from memory lapses. It does affect my daily life and my vaping. Anything I have a problem with, this community helps me out. My boyfriend bought me cartos in different ohms, Standard in black and low res in SS so I could remember what goes on what mod. What other community can you tweet you forgot what black goes on and have 10 answers in less than a minute? I know that anything I need to know I can find out quickly here on ECF, on twitter, or by popping into the chat on VapeTV.

I have finally settled into what works for me. I love my silver bullet, my mini reo, my prodigy, my glv2, and my triple V. I have my go-to juice vendors, Parkes and Rawr. And I have found I am a tank girl and I love my lava tanks. And it only took 13 months, 32 mods, a gazillion cartos and attys, and probably 300 or so bottles of juice.....and I wouldn't change a thing.

Yes, vaping is not as easy as smoking analogs. But you get out of it what you put in it. It isn't as easy as running to the corner store and buying a pack and a lighter. But the rewards of vaping are so much more than not smoking analogs too, if you want them to be. No, the average smoker probably won't vape. You may be right about that but the extraordinary ones becomes vapers....like us

*blows a kiss to her vapey family, hops off her soap box and goes back into hiding*

 

[washvap]

Thanks for sharing your experience charmed. I hope that everything gets better for you soon and you continue to stay strong.

 

[Trilly]

Charmed, what a moving post, certainly puts a lot of things in perspective. ((((((Big Hugs)))))

I wish you all the best and that you stay strong.

As for the OP, if a person wants to quit analogues then they will take the time into researching and finding what works for them. I agree with others saying that B&M stores would be useful but since they are few and far between we do what we have too, research, ask questions and accept that what works for one person may not work for me. It's a learning curve just the same as anything you do in life and once you get there, it becomes automatic like. Compared to analogues, vaping is still quite new, as it becomes more accepted there may be B&M shops where someone can go and try a range of PVs before purchasing, have someone physically show someone what everything is and how to do something. The more people that vape and do so proudly will help but now and always it is forums like ECF that contribute so much to the success of each person that makes the switch, I know I owe everyone on here a big thank you but ultimately what decides if a person will switch and stick with it through the hard times is the person themselves.

 

[Philx123]

I'm with you, Frankster. I started vaping about 6 months ago, and am reaching frustration point right now. I really loved smoking, but realised it would kill me (it killed my father). I had numerous failed attempts at quitting - some lasting years, some just a few weeks, but would always drift back in. Vaping worked for me in that respect, as I still don't have any desire to smoke real cigarettes. In truth, I much prefer vaping (luckily for me, I have no issues with PG or VG), but I'm sick of buying stuff that is either not what it purports to be (tobacco flavour, long lasting etc) or is simply defective. The amount of cartos and attys and batteries I've bought that have either not worked in the first place or worked for a short time them failed.
I've just had two batteries go down and am resorting to a useless old mini-ecig and some over priced disposables (which boast 25 to 30 real cig life, but are closer to ten), until I dump yet another load of money to an e-site and wait to see how long the delivery is, not knowing whether the product will be as good as the research I've done it suggests it should be.

It's just a pain. And it's also not that cheap.

I calculated how much I've spent in those six months - £450 (I buy most stuff from Liberty Flights). I Also calculated that if I'd just smoked cigarettes, I would have spent about £600. I know it's about a third less, and it won't kill you (well, so we're told now, but who knows what they'll find in the future) but still, and going back to your original point - given the hassle and the failure rate and the messing about with internet purchases and waiting for delivery and all the trial and error and research, I don't think your average smoker will stick at it.

 

[pyro13g]

Doesn't sound like the typical experience to me. I started on Blu and have handed that kit down which has been handed down many times. I think we are on the 12th person getting off analogs from my original blu kit. I moved on to ego and 510 batteries. the ego are over a year old. My cartos(Boge) last for weeks. My 510 atty's for dripping and tasting last a long time as well. My Smokymizers are awesome and the small annoyances of them are worth it. They have an awesome atty in them. The only horrible tasting juice I've experience was prefilled cartridge. Was like smoking a piece of a tire.

My high power pass-through is da bomb! So i bought two more. to leave around different parts of the house.

 

[dudex]

I personally had very little hiccups when starting vaping. The only snag I hit was because I bought a 901 kit and the batteries didnt last long enough and I got caught away from my extra batteries a couple times my first week out. Once I got an eGo kit things went fairly smooth.

I see one of the biggest problems on this site is when a new user comes on here asking for recommendations and people start talking about advanced techniques and equipment i.e. dripping, box mods, tanks ect. Stuff like that should never be recommended unless a user is already established.

With that said I think things are slowly changing. More brick and mortar stores are popping up around the country. And that's what the industry needs (Not mall kiosks). Somewhere to go where they can see first hand what the different items are and how they are used. Knowledgeable people that can answer questions face to face. If my current profession was more flexible I would be starting a small business.