The conversion of an anti vaping/anti smoking activist to pro vaping.

[United States]

Debating on social media is a waste of time.

Debating in person can be more fruitful so long as each side listens to the other.
9 outta 10 times I enter debates result in both sides learning, albeit maybe no minds change. But both sides agree it was a worthwhile experience.

When one expects the other side to agree, that typically gets nowhere.

 

[ScottP]

Not a bad video but someone should edit it and cut out all of the unrelated garbage filler that artificially makes this twice as long as it should be. It serves no purpose and makes it harder to watch.

 

[Katya]

This is worth a look....our American friends could do with diffusing this over there to try and spark some logical debate. Hope it's helpful although it covers specific user groups.

To be honest this is fairly typical of the common sense that prevails around issues that arise in the UK and Europe.

What a sweet lady. There are people like this in this country, but their voices are usually drowned by the mass hysteria of the media and the ruling class and their "nicotine is poison" and "save the children" mantras...

 

[Katya]

Hopefully the Enlightenment will occur a bit faster this time than the last time we were mired in a dark age governed not by reason but by dogma.

It's been said that "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

 

[muth]

it's a classic divide and conquer with us as the losers.

Yup. No one knows that strategy better than Putin, too. That old Cossack. He's a fan of Alexander the Great. No surprise.

They should be judged by the idea, not who brought it to the table.

Well, when you have two major parties there's always going to be competition. I think the founders had healthy competition in mind, though. Maybe it's time for a completely new governing system. This one isn't working anymore. Maybe do away with parties and have one big think tank. One big tank for the good of all

 

[muth]

It's been said that "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

I certainly hope so.

 

[Eskie]

Well, when you have two major parties there's always going to be competition. I think the founders had healthy competition in mind, though. Maybe it's time for a completely new governing system. This one isn't working anymore. Maybe do away with parties and have one big think tank. One big tank for the good of all

Nah, then you end up with a beaurocracy that answers to no one. Reminds me of the EU in Brussels. They think they're doing the right thing, but there's no one to tell them they're not.

I agree, healthy competition is good, providing people listen and not act like sheep following the party line. There have been other times that's occurred in the US, and it always turned out bad. The difference is some were willing to stand and listen to the other side and negotiate for the good of the country. Now they negotiate on how to divide the pile of money they can manage to stash away believing no one is looking, or if they are, don't seem willing or even bothered to do anything about it.

What we need are new partys. Partys that listen to the voters and who listen to reason and are willing to work the hard problems through even if the solutions don't necessarily represent some preconceived notion of what the party wants, but what the country needs. Hey, I went from Republican to Independent some time ago. Neither party now represents any of my views of what's needed. Neither party is willing to make pragmatic decisions that might not play well in polls, but are the right thing to do. Neither party represents the what this country was formed for or the values it represents. The American people are a helluva lot better than anyone sitting in congress and this drive towards polarization isn't what this country was founded for. Me, I'm willing to fight for that and not just throw my hands up and say forget it, just divvy the country up and let everyone fight it out for the crumbs still left on the table. If we do we're no better than any tin pot dictatorship that keeps falling apart every few years while the people suffer. That I'll fight to prevent.

 

[muth]

That I'll fight to prevent.

Me too. Btw, I'm not very good at politics and become uneasy when people start discussing it. I have no answers on how to fix things from a political POV. I believe in good leadership but my definition of a leader isn't what we see in our government or many others for that matter. I'd love to see a change in our politics but I'd like to see a change of heart even more. I fear a dictatorship, I fear a society that has lost its respect for the sanctity of life. All life.

 

[ScottP]

Well, when you have two major parties there's always going to be competition. I think the founders had healthy competition in mind, though.

The founding fathers did NOT want a two party system and in fact warned against them. We failed to heed their warning and now see their fears come to fruition.

John Adams:

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.​

George Washington:

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty


Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.


It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.
​

Reading the above quotes it is easy to see that everything they said would happen under the party system, has in fact not only happened, but is actually getting worse. The jealousies, false alarms, animosity, corruption, and foreign influence Washington warned about is indeed happening as we speak. One can see all of this manifested in nearly any news article. We the people should see that it is indeed the great "political evil" Adams said it was.

 

[Vapedog]

I think there also needs to be non participation trophies so those who didn't participate don't feel left out. My house if full of them. I gave them to myself. I have an I Didn't Run a Marathon trophy, an I Refused to Jump in The Pool From the High board trophy, an I'm too Scared to Play Grid Iron trophy, and my proudest, I Can't Fight My Way Out of a Wet Paper Bag Mixed Martial Arts non Participation trophy.

 

[Jebbn]

I think there also needs to be non participation trophies so those who didn't participate don't feel left out. My house if full of them. I gave them to myself. I have an I Didn't Run a Marathon trophy, an I Refused to Jump in The Pool From the High board trophy, an I'm too Scared to Play Grid Iron trophy, and my proudest, I Can't Fight My Way Out of a Wet Paper Bag Mixed Martial Arts non Participation trophy.

Hell yeah. I would be up for some of those non participation trophies! I would rack them up.
No schytz given! Have a trophy @Jebbn

 

[stols001]

The way the news media treats the "other parties" is disgusting. You should have seen the libertarian "debate" or open house or whatever. I don't think they even had the "magic plastic" CNN dude, Anderson Cooper, asking the questions. He was probably being oiled/charged or something.

I had high hopes for that ticket. Not the muppet, Gary Johnson, but the VP. I'm blanking on his name but he was the bomb. Like, so sane, calm and reasonable!

It probably got a 1% market share on the TV that night. That "you have to get so many votes to be in the primaries" thing SUCKS. It's almost impossible to do as an "alternative" party, because you get no coverage, or negative coverage. It's a self reinforcing cycle of SUCK alright.

I hate the two parties a LOT almost EQUALLY at times. Not quite. Almost.

Anna

 

[vimagreg]

It's truly sad that common sense has become a thing of the past.

If that’s make you less sad, consider this. In the country do I live - Brazil - the International Affairs minister says almost every day, for who wants to listen/read, that Nazi movement was a left one. And, if you disagree, that’s because you’re a communist. I swear, that’s not a joke...

And that’s only one of the Bolsonaro’s government members. There is, too, the Human Rights minister who swear she saw Jesus climbing a tree, and that all boys in this country should wear blue, and all girls should wear only pink. Again, I swear that’s not a joke. Could write about others, but I’ll stop here because shame don’t let me continue.

What did you said about “common sense”, after all?


Enviado do meu iPad usando Tapatalk

 

[Zazie]

You have my sympathies, @vimagreg. I am no fan of our prez, but yours is a real doozy. I read about his rise with horror.

 

[muth]

The founding fathers did NOT want a two party system and in fact warned against them. We failed to heed their warning and now see their fears come to fruition.

John Adams:

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.​

George Washington:

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty


Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.


It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.
​

Reading the above quotes it is easy to see that everything they said would happen under the party system, has in fact not only happened, but is actually getting worse. The jealousies, false alarms, animosity, corruption, and foreign influence Washington warned about is indeed happening as we speak. One can see all of this manifested in nearly any news article. We the people should see that it is indeed the great "political evil" Adams said it was.

Thank you, and that's why I asserted the idea of maybe a council, a think tank, or Idk, something better than what we have now. I'm not a politically savvy person and discussing politics makes me a bit nervous. I do appreciate the quotes from our founders and always had an interest in the beginnings of our nation. Especially after reading the biography of George Washington.

 

[Don29palms]

You have my sympathies, @vimagreg. I am no fan of our prez, but yours is a real doozy. I read about his rise with horror.

Would you rather have had Clinton as President?

 

[Don29palms]

Thank you, and that's why I asserted the idea of maybe a council, a think tank, or Idk, something better than what we have now. I'm not a politically savvy person and discussing politics makes me a bit nervous. I do appreciate the quotes from our founders and always had an interest in the beginnings of our nation. Especially after reading the biography of George Washington.

Read the Constitution. It's very enlightening.

 

[scott58]

We will always need witches to hunt.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

I like the mention of the Muppets. Yeah, vote for the Muppets!

 

[charlie1465]

Not a bad video but someone should edit it and cut out all of the unrelated garbage filler that artificially makes this twice as long as it should be. It serves no purpose and makes it harder to watch.

It's part of the back ground story...got to take the rough with the smooth. But anyway this is exactly the sort of thing that will escape bias and convert an attitude...by its very nature it is not just about vaping