The Diketone free tested vendors list

[Dizzo]

I think its time for us to make an official list. This list will be for juice that has been tested by a third party lab, and the results have been made public. I will consider this thread to be a work in progress until the day comes when all juice is tested. I will add vendors and links to the tests as they become available.
I ask for all of your help with this list. Im sure that I dont know them all, and I hope that more will be yet to come. Please bring my attention to any vendors that should be on this list. I may miss a post here, so please feel free to message me with vendors AND LINKS TO TESTS. We will not be adding any to the list that dont have public test results and are free of diketones. Some of these vendors have d and/or ap detected on some of their tests. this has been noted on them. you will have to check the tests to see which ones.
We have now put this in a spreadsheet. This way it can be edited later.


DAP Tested Vendors List - Google Sheets

 

[Mazinny]

Anyone know if MOV also tested for Acetoin? I see their results, which is awesome, but only DA/AP.

Also been reading some vendors are swapping to flavors with butyric acid?!? I know searching for the cleanest ejuice can be a ticking time bomb, but dang! worried some of these vendors are gonna swap one crap chemical for another, but say "hey, we tested. DA/AP Free like you guys wanted"

Angie,

As far as i know there is no current evidence acetoin and butyric acid may cause the type of cell damage diketones do, but if you are concerned about acetoin and butyric acid, i would recommend staying away from any custard, cream, yoghurt or milk based eliquids period, DA/AP testing or not. This is what Dr. Kurt Kistler ( a phd chemist and ECF'er ) said in response to a question from a member who implied butyric acid may not be any safer than DA/AP :

If you are referring to butyric acid, it is an irritant, which is largely person- and dose-dependent. Most sources talking about the problems it causes are referring to the pure compound. But as far as we know it is not TOXIC at the levels we use, nor does it kill lung tissue like diacetyl. It might cause irritation, mucus, depending on the person and amount present. I think that amount is generally very low in creams, however, since it takes very little to start tasting like vomit. But I am not aware of any studies that show it is damaging to the lungs at the levels we would be using it at. Chemically is it similar to acetic acid, vinegar, which is often used in liquids.

But our knowledge about AP is actually quite recent. People thought since it was not diacetyl, it must be much safer, like there is some evil incarnate to the diacetyl molecule. But it was found in recent rats studies that it is in fact as toxic as diacetyl, due to its similar chemical nature and structure.

Flavors are a big uncertainty, so blanket "this is perfectly safe" statements are not appropriate without more long term lung tissue studies with vapor. And we don't have a lot of long term data even anecdotally, other than some flavors causing mucus or irritation. So its a gamble, but I think the majority of flavor compounds out there are probably ok. That said, I do advocate using minimal flavors or vape unflavored, which I do most of the time. As we head into deeper and deeper lung penetration through very high wattage, we may start seeing more problems...which may not be toxicity problems, but irritation problems. If a flavor makes me cough a lot or causes a lot of mucus, I avoid it. Cinnamaldehyde (hot cinnamon) is a strong irritant, and has been known to cause throats to close up...but some have no issues at all with it. It does have a toxicity associated with it, but only in very high concentrations. SOMETHING in Capellas Milk Chocolate Toffee, maybe DA!, causes me to cough uncontrollably, so I avoid it.

Dr F has done some cytotoxicity studies on a limited number of flavored e-liquids, and most were not cytotoxic. Naturally extracted coffee did have low toxicity. None were even remotely as toxic as cigarette smoke.

And as I said, flavors have a range of thermal stabilities and some can easily decompose on a coil, which creates its own set of toxins, even if the flavor compound itself is benign. Any flavor that "gunks up" a coil is decomposing. So if a vape starts to taste "off", fix it, as it is probably decomposition starting from poor wicking to the coil. If a flavor causes any irritation problems for you, avoid it.

 

[Dizzo]

All right. changed to a link! now it should be easily accessible for everyone! Can this be confirmed please?
plume room added
Id like to say that this thread isnt for everyone. If its for you, you know it. You knew it before you clicked on it.
opinions on this are like vape devices. We all have at least one! Big thanks to everyone thats helped with the info. keep it coming. And a big thanks to all those who dont like this thread and keep posting in it to keep it near the top

 

[classwife]

Out of curiosity, what is the edit time ?

Also, in a different thread one of the moderators would update the first post as new and pertinent info came in. Is there a chance this could be done, if it's only done every once in a while and not too much of a burden for you guys ?

2 days is the edit time

Once the spreadsheet is made, send me a link to it and I will add it to the first post.

 

[Mazinny]

Johnson Creek just published their test results along with a letter from their CEO :

We now have 3rd party test results for our 36 flavors, and I am happy to post a statement from our CEO about diacetyl and acetyl propionyl. If you have any questions, I will try to grab the appropriate people today to answer them as soon as I can, but the letter from Christian is below. -SB

7 ½ years ago when I started Johnson Creek Vapor Company, it was because I couldn’t find an e-liquid manufacturer in the United States. Back then, everything was coming from China and I was concerned about the quality of the liquid I was vaping.

Today, the same principle holds true, quality is our number one priority. We make e-liquid for the sole purpose of our customers’ enjoyment.

Although, there is no defined standard for diacetyl or acetyl propionyl content in e-liquid, 5 μg/mL (or 5ppm) is a recommended detection level used within the e-liquid manufacturing industry when testing for the presence of these two compounds in the e-liquid itself. This detection limit is a recommendation from Dr. Farsalinos based on his research on diacetyl and acetyl propionyl content in e-liquid.

We decided that a stricter limit of detection was appropriate for our tests to provide our customers with the most comprehensive information on diacetyl and acetyl propionyl content.

After thorough 3rd party testing by Enthalpy Analytical, we found 15 of our 36 flavors contain diacetyl and or acetyl propionyl above a threshold of 1.13ppm.

The 15 flavors are Autumn Crisp, Birchwood Menthol, Birchwood Peach, Birchwood Tobacco, Birchwood Vanilla, Domestic, Gold Reserve, Island, JC Original, OSJ Tennessee Cured, Solstice, Red Oak Tennessee Cured, Tundra, Vanda, and Wisconsin Frost.

We are currently working on reformulating the 15 flavors for diacetyl and acetyl propionyl to have non-detectable levels of diacetyl or acetyl propionyl. Although we began posting test results of newly launched flavors on our website last month, the test results for the rest of our flavors will be uploaded to each product page on our website within the week and on our FAQ’s. In the meantime, I am posting the results here on reddit.

We took our time in reviewing the data, because we wanted to ensure accurate results for our customers and potential future customers. Feel free to reach out to us directly by commenting below or e-mailing us at comments@jcvc.com with any ideas, comments or to tell us how we’re doing. As always, I thank you for your continued support and business.

Christian Berkey

CEO & Founder


FULL PDF of Results

Edit, formatting

 

[Dizzo]

I'm thinking that we could add them to the list, and put a note that some contain ap. this way you can go and check for the ones that don't.
I would also like to say that I don't consider this my list. I consider this our list. I'm just giving it order. I would like this to be as helpful to as many people as possible. All feedback and opinions are highly appreciated.
Thanks everyone

 

[Sirius]

Being a NET lover I can only totally agree with you here about NETs lol. And you likely already know that Naturally Extracted Tobacco has started testing with a lot of results already posted, good for Clay!
Edit: Now the analogy doesn't hold, since some vendors have dikatone free liquids but they don't make this list since ALL their liquids aren't, yet they publish test results. You guys want to force vendors hand with this "exclusive" only list? That's where the baby FDA analogy comes in No? Then a list of those who test would be a fair list.

I have not seen anyone FORCING any supplier to do anything. Maybe some of them have seen the light so to speak since the Cloud9 tests and them pulling juices from their shelves.
Then our own Smokey Joe's fantastic blog about AP/DA that simplified it for us forum members that all that scientific lingo flies right over our heads.
That's not forcing that's just having a good business sense and shows their concern about Harm Reduction.

It was simplified to the point that it raised more than a few eyebrows just as doctor F's dyktone study did. You would think more suppliers would care about their customers concerns in that area.

I guess some of us are fooling ourselves if we are thinking all of our favorites are in the business for anything more than profit.

Sent from my XT1028 using Tapatalk

 

[I'mnotZak]

Makes no difference to me my friiiiiiend. I don't believe the reputable labs. I don't believe the results. I don't believe the documents spewed out on the interweebs. I don't believe the flavors that are tested. Nobody has any idea as to chain of custody or what is actually being tested or what is actually going into juice bottles.

Then it would appear that you will not utilize this thread as resource, and vape whatever flavors appeal to you in spite of these tests. So be it. IMO, that's one of the great things about this very "touchy" subject. Research if YOU choose, make decisions based on YOUR research if YOU choose, or do nothing and ignore test results based on skepticism if YOU choose. All viable options that are YOURS to make. All of the aforementioned are YOUR choice.

 

[Dizzo]

Wharfrat
I have had this cross my mind as well.
There will always be a set of unknowns. Even if the Feds get involved (which would result in further taxation) you still won't be sure. How do I know my multivitamin really has all my vitamin c? How do I know that the UL sticker guy checked that electrical connection? You could live off the grid, but then how do you know a sick deer didn't pee on your tomatoe?
I'm even skeptical of the skeptics, but at the end of the day, your best is all you can do

 

[DC2]

If you consider 50/50 high vg, you are really limiting yourself in the current market, and i'm afraid even more so in the future if and when some of the vendors who offer different pg/vg ratios, stop doing so after the deeming.

I agree that I am limiting myself.
Or at least my body is.

I wish the industry hadn't started turning more towards VG so CLOUDS BRO.

High VG makes me wheeze in bed at night, like when I was smoking.
Not nearly as bad, but yeah.

And it makes me sneeze every morning and blow my nose for hours.

I don't need no clouds.
I want PG.

Once again, I'm a dinosaur.
I've come to terms with that, but I won't stop asking for what I want

 

[LouisLeBeau]

Ahlusion LLC - Ingredients

This is what's on the Ahlusion site about their D/AP testing.
Maybe we should discuss whether or not to add Ahlusion to the spreadsheet?

The summer months are W&A's "downtime" from the business I think. Family to enjoy, finally the fruits of a successful operation. The call for results is relatively new, and I am a little surprised to see them coming behind the curve on ANYthing. I hope to see some reports coming sometime soon. Personally knowing the man, the page you reference is good enough for me. But at this point in the evolution of what is happening in the industry, I would be hard pressed to try to pass my confidence on to anyone else. I sure hope to see Ahlusion do what I have always seen from them, and set this bar higher and more transparent than anyone else.

A straight shooting, honorable veteran, and EVERY other manufacturer, now fall to their word not being worth much because of the unscrupulous actions of a couple manufacturers. Yet that is where we are at. I am unfortunately in agreement, you can no longer just make assurances of your purity, without the documentation to back it up. Sad times.

 

[DJLEC]

All of the Habu liquids are 30% PG/70% VG
Won't anyone think of DC2?

You are not alone since my preferred ratio is 70 PG/30 VG.

Over 50 VG and I also get a heavy chest.

My largest holdings are Ahlusion, Heather's Heavenly Vapes (NET's), and Halo. I also have a large number of NET's with some of them at 70 PG.

When Halo released their Testing Results I bought a ton of Torque56 & Tribeca. On Sale of course.

Does this make me a dinosaur also [emoji3]

I have discovered 3 Synthetic Tobacco's that I really like from Mountain Oak Vapors also. 50/50 ratios though.

I have full trust with Ahlusion & HHV, and I am hoping this trust proves to be valid.

I applaud all of you for starting, and contributing to this thread.

 

[Dizzo]

on the list I have notes next to each vendor. I believe any that have juices that didn't test clean have been noted. Let me know if I missed any.
As far as the "acceptable" testing, this has been kind of a hot topic. I feel that for now it's really a personal standard. We are still in the infancy of figuring this all out. As time goes on more will come to light. This list is just an attempt to get going in the right direction.

 

[Gauntlgrym]

I'm thinking I'd like to keep this an "nd" list. At least for now.
Opinions?

i'm fine either way. just wanted to check.
actually Sirius already posted the company i was referring to.... Charlie Noble. all of the liquids have tests, but some flavors they sell have small amounts of AP. and i think one flavor has like 75ug. but that is only 1, and it's the worst.

i disagree with the "sending results out through email" though. if it's not publicly posted, then i don't think it should go here.
seems fishy to me anyway. if you have good test results, then why would you not want to publicly post them?

 

[Mazinny]

When this topic here was orig. started, we were just trying to get ANY vendors who had diketone free eliquids. Even back in Jan there weren't "that" many, so it was sort of an instructive topic.

to me, there is a difference between diketone free and eliquids that have testing, since the latter, like some of the plume room or charlie noble do have some diketones if you look at tests.

It can be a process for a vaper to go thru all the tests......but it's great to know who tests!
However, a true diketone free ejuice database would be nice, since then you don't even have to look thru 50+ tests.

I guess that is why I jsut short-cut, and only use vendors now that have NO diketones in ANY of their ejuice, across the board. Just made it easier for me. However, I admit, I am not a new vaper, so I am not trying out new eliquids every week and shopping for them like I was my first year.

One option is to divide the listings into two parts ;

1- vendors that have a policy in place that won't allow them to offer any liquids that aren't nd and have gone through considerable trouble and expense to test and re-test and reformulate and remove the liquids they couldn't fix and

2- vendors that don't have this specific policy but have chosen to publish test results so that the consumer could make an informed choice.

- perhaps we could note in an addendum that Vaporshark has published test results on dozens of vendors whose juice they carry and note that the results are all over the place as far as the amount of diketones, but it's an additional resource for those who might be interested in a specific e-liquid and are wondering what the numbers are on those specifically.

p.s. if you read the Totally Wicked blog-post carefully the two flavor concentrates that had issues are not being sold and have been removed from their menu.

Thanks again Dizzo for getting this rolling, and i will help you as best as i am able as you need it.

 

[classwife]

Well folks...
It looks like this will be short lived. I was unaware that there is a limit to how long I can edit a thread for. I asked the mods, but they will not change this.
Sorry everyone. Looks like the list we have is the list we've got

To clear this up...It's not that we WON'T change the edit time for this thread...it is that it CAN NOT be done.

 

[Dizzo]

all of the vendors have juice that has tested clean. I have gone at this list with the intention of not letting a few bad apples spoil the bunch. all of the vendors that have juice tested not clean have been noted. if I have missed any, please let me know. its a work in progress

 

[Sirius]

I am not dissing this thread. I think it is a great idea. I am merely voicing my view on the matter. I am winding down into unflavored nic vapes anyway. Sirius, you carry the torch good buddy. Carry it well.

I carry no torch nor do I have animosity towards anyone but those that seek to destroy vaping. You could carry a gas spectrometer into the municipal court of any county that bans vaping in public places,..blow a huge cloud into it,..and when it didn't set it off from harmful gasses they still wouldn't lift their ban on vaping in public places.
Why? It's their attitude about smoking. Vaping looks like smoking so it must be just as bad for you right?
Wrong as you well know. So we are on the same side rat,.and more than ever need to stick together IMHO.

Sent from my XT1028 using Tapatalk

 

[Mazinny]

I can't find test results on Velvet Cloud ejuice advertised as "Natural & Organic."
Their website says no diacetyl here:FAQs – Velvet Cloud

No diacetyl doesn't mean much anymore. The vast majority of the flavor compounders ( TFA, Cappella etc ... ) have completely replaced diacetyl with AP. In fact, vendors need to go out of their way to find flavors with diacetyl ( and a couple have ! ). AP is the diketone of choice for flavor compounders these days.

 

[LittleBird]

Thank you! Ok, so if I vape 1 ml of TPR's Cinna Drizzle (AP: 21.5 ug/ml) then that's not considered high?

GLV's results seem to be formatted a little differently. Their results (for example) show Red Berry at 0.006 mg/ml Diacetyl and 0.089 mg/ml AP. Am I reading that right? Stuff like this makes my head spin

A "ug" is a microgram. There are 1000 micrograms in a milligram (mg). So, if you multiply 1000 X .089, you get 89. There are 89 ug/ml of AP in the juice you referenced (and 6 ug/ml of Diacetyl). Hope this helps!