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The FDA Is Considering a Ban on Online E-Cig Sales

Discussion in 'FDA Regulations' started by capthook, Sep 26, 2018.

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  1. capthook

    capthook Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 3, 2015
    North Carolina
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  2. capthook

    capthook Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 3, 2015
    North Carolina
    Food and Drug Administrator Scott Gottlieb is an advocate of ecigs for current smokers as harm reduction.
    But is adamantly against creating a new generation of nicotine dependence with kids.
    To the point where he is considering the current environment to be that the risks of underage users outweigh the benefits to current smokers.
    Especially after decades of declining cigarette use.
    But to ban online sales?
    I mean it IS the internet...would be hard to do.
    And this IS the USA, not China.
    Thus my thought it is more bark than bite, for the moment.
     
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  3. MorelyMagicMist

    MorelyMagicMist Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 28, 2014
    WV, USA
    Consumer advocacy got vendors to card for purchases, 18 years of age or older, with fines the same as for tobacco or alcohol. It also brought childproof packaging, warning labels. There are online vendors that as per the FDA regulations now require age verification prior to sells. What more can the product manufactures do in regards to not permit sales to minors? What more can vendors do? What more can online vendors do?

    Just an odd thought here and if it reads as sarcastic or snide so be it. Maybe the parents ought to parent?

    Children will be children and the more folks attempt keeping them from something, the more they'll find ways to get it. This isn't merely in regards to vaping either and it isn't anything new at all. It happens with every passing generation of children. I have no human children but even I can see that as a universal truth. Am I saying we do nothing? No. I am saying there is only so much that can be done. There is nothing ever going to be 100%, it just doesn't happen.

    I agree it sounds like a lot of saber rattling, yet at the same time ... who knows?
     
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  4. bombastinator

    bombastinator Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    The thing mr gotleib doesn’t get is that the drop in teen smokers did NOT coincide with anti smoking marketing, but DID coincide with the introduction of ecigs. Meanwhile, if vaping and smoking are lumped together the numbers remain in line with historical trends. If he regulates ecigs out of the hands of everyone all he will do is create teen smokers
     
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  5. NicotineRush

    NicotineRush Linux Mint/Mate Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Imagine that? Parents actually parenting! What a novel thought.
     
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  6. marianna

    marianna Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 30, 2012
    Netherlands
    So, every e-cig contains nicotine per definition ?
     
  7. papergoblin

    papergoblin Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 16, 2013
    alabama
    Nope, everything E-cig related contains nicotine, lol. They are putting nic warning labels on everything including mods and atomizers. It was weird the first time I got an RDA in with a nic warning, I looked and looked for the nic but never did find it, lol.
     
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  8. marianna

    marianna Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 30, 2012
    Netherlands
    Same in Europe... I could never find any nicotine in my mods nor atomizers. :grr:
     
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  9. MorelyMagicMist

    MorelyMagicMist Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 28, 2014
    WV, USA
    Thought about that a little. What you're suggesting might be what they are aiming to do. It would prove a good apology to big tobacco, bring in a whole new generation of smokers.

    "We're sorry that vaping has cost you to lose so much revenue. Please accept our gift of new smokers."

    I would not put it past some of the crooks, erm politicians. They seem to think like that. Who of us would want to know that? Oh right, the people that vote will want to know.
     
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  10. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    There is this thing that happens. This object emerges out of your vagina. At first you like worry all the time about the little thing, only to realize the older that kid gets, the larger its locus of control is going to get. You will think fondly back to the day and age where you only had to worry about it dismantling the kitchen furniture while your back was turned when you purchased it it's true desire, an electric screwdriver. You will fondly remember that day when you handed it peanut butter and celery sticks and it painted the couch and what it took to get that cleaned up.

    You will realize that it is going to start doing experimental stuff, like having sex, driving, going to concerts. You will view the plethora of poor possible choices it has before it, and you will also realize that, much like you may have lied to your parents, it is going to lie to you. You will catch it in some of its lies, and you will state, wistfully, "Gosh, I wish I had not wasted all that worry when it was two, I could REALLY use that NOW," and you will do your best in catching the monster as it acts out, all the while citing your own bad decisions to yourself (if you aren't a hypocrite) while desperately attempting to help it learn from its mistakes, and working hard to instill values, be fair when you are at the end of your rope, and, if you are religious you are gonna have it harder, because you and all your associates are going to have to desperately lie to EACH OTHER about how well your child is doing, instead of having other parents around WHO KNOW and also don't model "we are the Brady bunch too" (I really feel for THOSE parents) and the whole time, you are also trying to put food on the table, sometimes alone, if you are very unlucky, buy it the things it needs, and do the best you can.

    All non parents are excluded from this, but I would like every parent to raise their hand if their kid never made a bad decision. Okay, now raise your hand if your kid LEARNED something from it even if a little bit down the road.

    Congratulations, you are a good parent. You are doing a great job. I don't care if it's ecigs that were the issue, because ecigs are largely irrelevant when it comes to the type of Sweeping Bad Decisions kids can make, like driving drunk, getting pregnant at 14, or smoking cigarettes.

    Parents parenting is not a novel concept.
    Parents being blamed for teen ecig use (and teens) is quite novel. It's as old as the hills and also has only been in use for a few years w/r/t ecigs.

    "Blame the kids and parents. Every last irritated adult ecig user will follow. Who can resist, "blame the kids?"

    I'm not signing on that dotted line, and I think there is no "solution" needed, because the problem is imaginary and wasting time on an IMAGINARY problem ONLY speeds the rate of the ecig's decline.

    Anna

    Hint: Looking at the wrong "group" of folks here, the ones with all the power and the money and who want to tell you it's "the family's" fault, while they are lining their own pockets with the blood sweat and tears of said families. Yeah, let's do that, that's really positive and upbeat for everyone. Spectacularly intelligent misdirection as well.

    Who do you trust more? Your kid, or your elected official. I am just SAYING
     
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  11. marianna

    marianna Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 30, 2012
    Netherlands
    Strange.... cause in Europe we had those regulations 11 years ago. So, those who were too young, just posted a copy of brother's or sister's passport... or just let an older person make the order.
    Now those verification nonsens are long gone.
     
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  12. MorelyMagicMist

    MorelyMagicMist Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 28, 2014
    WV, USA
    Yeah, I think the regs here started about the same time. But there was no government involvement to the regulation, it was done due to consumer pressure to do it. And yes age verification was used via credit cards, money orders, checks/cheques. I wasn''t meaning to imply the FDA alone caused the age verification. They though are now are demanding it and insisting it be law. Apologies, misstated that did I.

    For the FDA here to then suddenly get on a high horse is just beyond silly & to a good degree we can see that their involvement ties right back to Big Tobacco. Big Tobacco wants to stop vaping any way it can despite the seeming insurgence of some of their "products" into the vaping market. Vaping takes away from the profit of Big Tobacco. Plus a lot of vapers choose to not use the products Big Tobacco puts into the vaping market.

    I have one or two Mark 10 kits I got for a buck on a coupon. Tried one kit out and the nicotine level in it was dastardly high for what was presented. The capsule that holds the juice is 1.5 ml and they added 24% nicotine to that. I vape at 18 mg per ml & got choked on their crap product, that's how I figured the nicotine was too high. I think the purpose was to discourage smokers from trying vaping & it would have done that effectively. This is what (the product type) Big Tobacco wants the FDA to push as the "regulated" device and process of vaping.

    And yeah, I see what you did in Europe. "Bad law", circumvent it and it goes away. Thomas Jefferson reminds us Yanks of the same."When laws become morally unjust it is your duty to disobey those laws." I'm paraphrasing him but that's the gist of his quote. And I can lay money down that more than a few are indeed outlaws over here as well, and not merely the wealthy cream of the crop types either. Still that is not a badge of pride for such a thing ought naught come to pass.
     
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  13. baddog99

    baddog99 New Member

    Mar 12, 2012
    Denver
    I know a B&M owner who has been pushing this for years yet he sells to teens all the time in his store. He always posts on Facebook how online sales are to blame for teen use and always post stories about turning teens down (which of course he doesn't) and everyone touts him as some kind of hero. It's sickening.
     
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  14. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    A consumer ingoring vaping laws is the moral equilivent of jay walking or not putting money in the parking meter. The noise about kids is truely sad. I wish ecigs had been around when I was a kid. It does not appear to me that parents or school administrators are the people concerned about vaping. But it's simpler than that. Nobody should give anything to any kid if their parents might not approve. That's been the universal common sense common law since the Stone Age. Access to cigarettes is far more consequential. Why not crack down harder on that? In the mean time the most important health issue for kids is obesity. I bet most of the schools with kid vapers have vending machines full of sugar sweetened drinks and the schools get a cut and that's why the machines are in the schools and THAT'S just plain evil.
     
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  15. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    The Villages, FL
     
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  16. marianna

    marianna Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 30, 2012
    Netherlands
    When I was a kid, I would not have had enough money to buy mods, RTA's, RDA's, coils, wicks, tools, batteries, chargers, liquids...
    and computers nor internet did exist.
     
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  17. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    Now FDA says they are considering banning vaping products from being sold in convenience stores because they don't check ID's enough. If they do that they must also ban tobacco sales and for the same reason.

    The vape companies could threaten to pull accounts from stores found to be selling to minors but the problem is the convenience stores buy from wholesalers that the vape companies can't control.
     
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  18. MorelyMagicMist

    MorelyMagicMist Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 28, 2014
    WV, USA
    To borrow a quote from a character from the televised series Stargate SG1, "Indeed."

    I agree with you. Not a parent here, not capable to sire & kind of agree with my wife in not having a desire for human children. That doesn't mean I lack common sense in knowing of rearing a human child, or of not giving one something a parent might not approve. Will say it again, "parents ought to parent."

    Have recently been fighting sodas myself. Needed to drink a few Tuesday here local, probably the first of Wednesday morning for you. :) I had gotten a real bad spell of trapped gas that required belching out. My body does that with tension. It traps up gas, of any kind in the muscles, also starts making all kinds of extra cortisol. Tuesday I went out o help my father in law do up some firewood. Like a jacka** I went into doing it far too quickly and far too much over-thinking it & wound up all anxious and in panic attack. Dumb me forgets I'm not long to be fifty and have put on extra miles anyway.

    Been avoiding sodas per say, been drinking carbonated water but not sodas. Dropping some weight that three hundred pounds can afford losing. Had no carbonated water here, other than sodas. My wife told me she thought I had been doing well enough with moderation and abstaining that it would be alright. Who knows? One week chicken eggs kill you, the next they're the best thing in the world to eat. :) :p

    Well, excuse me. I need to, ...
     
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  19. MorelyMagicMist

    MorelyMagicMist Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 28, 2014
    WV, USA
    Oy, watch your silliness here. The vape companies though can control which wholesalers get their products. It still remains ultimately in the vape companies' purview to have control in this case. They could take product away from district X or zone C where the stores are not cooperating by checking IDS.

    Will that hurt other stores doing legitimate business? Yes, but we can all see the FDA isn't concerned over that. The vaping companies should not be either. Everyone knows two wrongs make a right. ;)

    Now I'm gonna, ....
     
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  20. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    Tobacco wholesalers and shops will be better off if vaping disappears so they aren't going to be vigilant. I wouldn't be surprised if resellers are deliberatly sabotaging the vape business. If everybody stopped buying combustible tobacco products there would far fewer convenience stores and gas stations and the ones that survived would be hurting. Tobacco has many friends for so many practical reasons.
     
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