The Final Count Down -- Are You Ready?

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Rossum

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Yes, it would be unwise to assume nic will be available to us as part of the post-May deadline. I know that. In fact, it may be unwise to think it will be available to us next week.
A week is probably safe. In order to put the kibosh on it prior to 5/11/2020, the FDA would, at a minimum, have to issue formal "guidance" directing it only be sold to registered tobacco products manufacturers. This would take some time, and I think we'd have at least 30 days notice.

Of course that's been the same situation since 8/8/16, which is why I set (and achieved) the goal of being done before then for myself. I was never a boy scout, but I do like their motto. :)
 

Bronze

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In order to put the kibosh on it prior to 5/11/2020, the FDA would, at a minimum, have to issue formal "guidance" directing it only be sold to registered tobacco products manufacturers. This would take some time, and I think we'd have at least 30 days notice.
Well, this has been my thinking too. Whether the FDA or Congress puts on the kibosh we'll have a little time for a head's up. The federal gov't never does anything fast. We could get hit by 50 nuke heads and our gov't would need at least a month just to fill out the forms requesting retaliation.
 
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Uncle

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Well, this has been my thinking too. Whether the FDA or Congress puts on the kibosh we'll have a little time for a head's up. The federal gov't never does anything fast. We could get hit by 50 nuke heads and our gov't would need at least a month just to fill out the forms requesting retaliation.


:2c: Wanted to mark your post as "Funny", but just can't - especially since you are correct . . . :facepalm:



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Rossum

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Well, this has been my thinking too. Whether the FDA or Congress puts on the kibosh we'll have a little time for a head's up.
Right, but do you wanna get caught up in the real panic that will occur once the heads up is given? I sure wouldn't. I've seen what happens when the herd panics in other areas.
 

Brewdawg1181

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If it isn't mentioned in the forthcoming 1,000 page regulation, cautious suppliers will restrict sales to individuals out of fear. It's kind of like parking a dozen police cars in front of a liquor store. May not be against the law/regulation, but who in their right mind is going to go in there and try it?
I don't really agree with this. That would be extremely cautious. I think virtually all sellers will continue to sell nic until they're told with certainty they can't (I know I would). Hard to believe a vendor would stop selling a legal product because it might in the future be determined to be illegal. And some will continue after that, until forced to stop. This is their livelihood, they're seeing the end coming, and will rightfully try to squeeze all the profit they can before stopping.
 

Rossum

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I don't really agree with this. That would be extremely cautious. I think virtually all sellers will continue to sell nic until they're told with certainty they can't (I know I would). Hard to believe a vendor would stop selling a legal product because it might in the future be determined to be illegal. And some will continue after that, until forced to stop. This is their livelihood, they're seeing the end coming, and will rightfully try to squeeze all the profit they can before stopping.
FDA enforcement isn't all that aggressive. They aren't going to show up with a SWAT team and MRAPs initially. The first thing they do is send a warning letter that will likely contain certain demands.

But: If vendors start thinking it might be illegal and they might have to shut down at any time, they will almost certainly reduce inventory. Thus availability and price may come into question well before anyone is actually told outright that they can't sell it anymore.
 

Bronze

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:2c: Wanted to mark your post as "Funny", but just can't - especially since you are correct . . . :facepalm:



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It's a sad commentray.

Right, but do you wanna get caught up in the real panic that will occur once the heads up is given? I sure wouldn't. I've seen what happens when the herd panics in other areas.
Generally, no. I agree with you. That said, I feel good anything that comes down the turnpike I will be among the very first to know it. Being a fixture on ECF allows that. :)

Plus (as I have learned with Carolina Xtracts), they have their own tobacco field they use to grow their own raw materials for nic extraction. It's not like they can call a vendor and cancel their raw material orders. They are vertically integrated and their pipeline is always full. Someone like them may be inclined to LOWER their prices to deplete their pipeline. Pricing/availability could go in the favorable direction too.
 

DaveP

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:shock::shock::shock::shock:

I'm not saying we should be sitting on our hands by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, we need to be stocking up. But sorry, I don't agree we are at DEFCON 1 yet. I haven't stocked up on nic yet because I'm still not sure DIY is for me. I'm not going to panic-buy $1000 worth of nic only to find out I will never use it. Now, if something tells me it will be banned in short order I will have to make a quick decision based on what I know then. But when the feds decide to do something it never happens in DEFCON 1 fashion. Never! State governments, perhaps. But not the feds. I just sense a hyper frenzy that many are getting caught up in when just a regular frenzy is where we should be. :2c:

A bird in the hand ...

Prices may go up as the Feds start to clamp down on all ecig products. There's a lot of unknowns out there right now.
 

Brewdawg1181

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Plus (as I have learned with Carolina Xtracts), they have their own tobacco field they use to grow their own raw materials for nic extraction. It's not like they can call a vendor and cancel their raw material orders. They are vertically integrated and their pipeline is always full. Someone like them may be inclined to LOWER their prices to deplete their pipeline. Pricing/availability could go in the favorable direction too.
See, this is a good point. A lot of people here are commenting on "when will the price drop" kind of thing. Some won't drop at all. A lot of that will depend on many things: how fearful the vendor is, whether they have any future in business with other products after the hammer drops, where their orders come from, and as you pointed out - their overall business model.
 

Uncle

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Right, but do you wanna get caught up in the real panic that will occur once the heads up is given? I sure wouldn't. I've seen what happens when the herd panics in other areas.


IMHO - Only those living in Hurricane/Tornado/Earth Quake areas would truly understand the absolute NEED to be prepared before the last minute "rush" . . . Just Sayin' . . . :facepalm:


See, this is a good point. A lot of people here are commenting on "when will the price drop" kind of thing. Some won't drop at all. A lot of that will depend on many things: how fearful the vendor is, whether they have any future in business with other products after the hammer drops, where their orders come from, and as you pointed out - their overall business model.

Or - IMHO - those Vendors who are looking to make a quick buck and have a "Flash" sale when there is a story about Banning e-Liquids & Equipment too . . . Just like what was done recently when San Francisco/CA/NY/MA and some other states & local cities enacted bans already . . . :(


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Baditude

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Hopefully, you placed it in a big pan before sawing to catch the dribble! :) One small spill of 100mg will make lots of finished juice.
I sawed the cap off using the saw in a horizontal position, no spill. It was the particles of plastic dust left in the bottle that became a bigger problem.
 

Riplea

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Just thinking about hardware. What would keep manufactures of mods and Rta/rda to market them as thc devices? Are those not already legal in some states?

I am really not familiar with the thc market and what gear is used.

Not legal in Illinois yet. It will be come January 2020.
 

DaveP

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I have a SMM Serpent that fights me,,, channel grips to hold the base and needle nose to unscrew the chimney section,,,, top 3 in flavor if not top 1,,, but she is an absolute drunk with ejuice! ----which is fine,,, except for the tools I have to use to refill her! High maintenance drunk!

First attack device for me is a waffle rubber pot gripper. After that, it's two wraps of duct tape (to save the finish on the atty) and a big pair of water pump pliers like the blue ones RedForeman posted in post #2186. Most of the time I unscrew atty parts with bare fingers. It doesn't hurt to make sure there's a little juice on threaded sections when assembling.:)

4pcs-set-7inch-180mm-Buffing-Polishing-Sponge-Pads-Kit-For-Car-Polisher-Soft-Wave-Foam-Waffle.jpg
 
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Myrany

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Right, but do you wanna get caught up in the real panic that will occur once the heads up is given? I sure wouldn't. I've seen what happens when the herd panics in other areas.
Dangit Rossum now I have the incredible urge to listen to the unabridged audible book for Larry Niven's Ring World. Le sigh. Oh well I can do that while organizing my stuff.
 

Alexander Mundy

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Finally tracked it down. These statements by FDA say DIY is okay as long as you don't do it for others, but that any nicotine sold is a component part and subject to PMTA etc but that they currently will not enforce unless sold directly to customers.

FDA Center for Tobacco Products Commonly Asked Questions

"Can I mix or make my own e-liquids at home or do I need to register as a tobacco product manufacturer?

If you are mixing these components of a tobacco product and then selling them to other individuals or companies, you would be considered both a retailer and a manufacturer, and subject to all applicable requirements under the law."

"I'm a supplier who sells to a manufacturer. I don't sell directly to consumers. Do I need to register with the FDA and submit premarket applications?

If you are solely a supplier and your product is sold only to another company for further manufacture into a finished tobacco product, at this time, FDA does not intend to enforce certain provisions of the law with respect to your product. For example, FDA does not intend to enforce the requirements that you register your manufacturing establishment and list your products, submit premarket applications or submit ingredient listing or health documents with respect to deemed products that are sold or distributed solely for further manufacturing into finished tobacco products."
 

Eskie

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Alexander Mundy

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Just thinking about hardware. What would keep manufactures of mods and Rta/rda to market them as thc devices? Are those not already legal in some states?

I am really not familiar with the thc market and what gear is used.

Not legal in Illinois yet. It will be come January 2020.

The FDA has started that what a seller says hardware, components, etc are used for isn't necessarily what FDA will consider it's used for. They will consider what use it's actually being purchased for. If they make that determination it will be declared misbranded.
 

BigPappa

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I'm still not clear about nic solution as it relates to the feds. What I know is gear and juice are in the center of the deeming deadline in May. I'm not seeing or hearing that nic solution IS. Yes, I've heard aplenty that, "If they can wipe out the gear and juice then they can wipe out nic on a moments notice". Of course they can! The government can take away anything I have on a moment's notice and especially nic. But still, is nic solution a part of the May deadline? I don't know if it is.
Unflavored nic could simply fall under the "only tobacco flavors" rule.... because it is not tobacco flavored it would be banned.... besides, Romney's bill that he has on the floor wants to ban refillables, which would probably include unflavored nic.
 
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Baditude

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Just thinking about hardware. What would keep manufactures of mods and Rta/rda to market them as thc devices? Are those not already legal in some states?

I am really not familiar with the thc market and what gear is used.

Not legal in Illinois yet. It will be come January 2020.
Any device with a common 510 connection can be used. The main difference is the liquid being vaped.

The prefilled THC carts are only about 1 ml in capacity, but they can be powered by an eGo type battery or a mod.

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