The final test of the Innokin Lea battery issue

[Terraphon]

So, Thom from White Stag sent me a white Lea so I could test the battery issue. I got it, tested it and while it seems that it's sometimes more difficult to get the issue to occur it does still happen.

And when I put a 510 LR carto in, it lit right up on 3 button presses.

Now, I know some people are rolling their eyes at this and saying it not a big deal. To that, I have this to say:

It may not seem like a big deal NOW but try to imagine if this went undiscovered and someone's kid accidentally stumbled upon it while breaking the rules and toying with their Lea while they were napping on the couch.

Roll your eyes all you like but nobody can claim that there's no chance of a major problem here and please, everyone, remember that many, many e-cig users DO NOT VIEW THESE VIDEOS. They have no idea that this problem has been found. We can't just pump out video after video telling people not to do this, the issue has to be solved so that the device is as safe as it can be when it gets to the consumer.

I'm not sure why so many people are having trouble understanding this. If you found out the brakes in your car would fail if you rapidly tapped the brake pedal, would you want the manufacturer to fix the problem or would you be ok with them saying "don't do that" and letting it go?

Think about it. It may SOUND sensational but it is our responsibility, by virtue of the fact that we put ourselves in the public eye testing and reviewing these devices, to make sure that the people who see our videos have all of the information...all of the facts...all of the good AND the bad.

If you're one of those people who doesn't talk about the bad things you find then you're doing the industry and the consumers a disservice.

Here's the video. Let the hate commence.

 

[emonty]

100% agree!! Crappy products is one, but dangerous is another and taken seriously, ban them fools and have them sell it to the mob

 

[FunkyVapes]

Awesome finale dude. I've been following this issue as you've explored it. I like your stance and the way you presented it. Very rational and professional.

Thanks for being the voice of reason.

 

[Terraphon]

No problem, guys. Again, I'm glad I could express this issue and then follow it up (also, again, thanks to Thom at White Stag for sending me the new unit to test). I just want to help make sure that as many people as possible are satisfied, away from cigarettes and doing this thing as safely as possible.

The last thing we need is a problem that causes the industry to be hit with undue scrutiny.

 

[basilray]

Good finale. Glad we can finally put this one to rest.

Let's hope that either innokin fixes the issue, or enough people stop purchasing the Lea that they stop making them.

Now...what's next?

 

[Sense Field]

When I was doing my view review...I found that if you leave the atomizer off while charging and try and reproduce the problem...you get the exact opposite. The battery gets stuck in the off position.

So I'm thinking it's pretty safe to do what Don said...charge up the battery with the atomizer off.

That said...these do need to be fixed...but I love this thing so much that I'm not all that worried about this issue.

Thanks for the great detective work!

 

[Terraphon]

Good finale. Glad we can finally put this one to rest.

Let's hope that either Innokin fixes the issue, or enough people stop purchasing the Lea that they stop making them.

Now...what's next?

Global warming?

Lee Harvey Oswald?

"I didn't inhale"?

So many detective stories, so little time...

When I was doing my view review...I found that if you leave the atomizer off while charging and try and reproduce the problem...you get the exact opposite. The battery gets stuck in the off position.

So I'm thinking it's pretty safe to do what Don said...charge up the battery with the atomizer off.

That said...these do need to be fixed...but I love this thing so much that I'm not all that worried about this issue.

Thanks for the great detective work!

I saw your review, yeah...That's interesting about the battery minus the atomizer. I really think this whole thing just boils down to a tiny piece of bad code...they forgot to close an if - then statement or something simple. I reckon they should be able to fix it, lickety split, if they put their mind to it.

I really don't think the Lea is a bad device (I don't like tank devices in general but there are worse tanks out there) I just think they made a potentially big booboo and I really do hope they can get it sorted out because I can see the potential of the Lea (and other tanks) to be a "gateway" device from cigs to vaping, if they ever sort out the issues they have.

By the way, I figured out how to lighten the draw on a tank style pretty significantly...I'm wondering if I should share

 

[VeeDubb65]

I'm not sure why so many people are having trouble understanding this. If you found out the brakes in your car would fail if you rapidly tapped the brake pedal, would you want the manufacturer to fix the problem or would you be ok with them saying "don't do that" and letting it go?

I can actually answer the implied question there, i.e. - why so many people "have trouble understanding" this.

It isn't a lack of understanding. We get the idea, and acknowledge that it is an issue. However, there is a VERY good reason that a number of us are just not that concerned, and I'll stick with your car analogy to illustrate it.

You've compared this to your breaks failing if you tapped quickly on the pedal. The problem is that this is not a valid or fair comparison.

To draw an accurate car/Lea analogy it would be more fair to say the accelerator get's stuck wide open if you try to turn off the ignition while driving, but only when the gas tank if full, and even then it's 50/50 whether or not it will do it, and tapping the brakes will stop it instantly. Oh, and we're talking about a car that isn't large enough to actually kill anyone. It's a clown car.

Or a Citron.

In your video you said that you "don't want to be Mr. Drama-pants," yet your posts on the subject seem to be just that. Comparing an obscure malfunction that only occurs when you use the Lea "not as intended" to the brakes going out on your car when they are used as intended is 100% Pure, Grade-A drama-pants. Making ridiculous statements such as, "nobody thought it was possible to burn a house down with a cigarette before the first time it happened," is also pure drama. How can you possibly back statements like that up?


This is a real problem. It has become clear that it's a design flaw which should be corrected as the manufacturer goes forward. There is a real, although very small, possibility of injury from this. However, I find the conclusion that this poses a serious risk to life, safety or health to be preposterous, and that is the stance you have taken in your previous videos and most of your posts on the subject. I have no doubt that the atomizer would fail long before the temperature got high enough to cause serious injury, even to a child (let alone hot enough to cause a fire). Further, given the fact that a single tank contains enough nicotine to be extremely toxic to a small child, I would be FAR more concerned about the fact that the child has any access to an e-cig at all than I would be that they would be burned.


I have watched all of your videos on this topic. While I certainly agree that we should do our best to inform people of this problem, and let innokin know about the problem, I simply do not agree with you conclusion as to the seriousness. A VERY specific set of circumstances must be met to cause this issue. A set of circumstances which I, and a number of other people failed to encounter in weeks of use, and some of us had trouble reproducing after watching your videos. In your second video it took you multiple tries at one point to start it cooking, and in this video, if I counted correctly, it took you sixteen tries to activate it. You tried to do something that many users never would have done (trying to use the battery cutoff while fully charged and plugged in) and even then you had to do it 16 times to make it work.

When it does happen, it happens with the Lea in your hand. The light immediately comes on, the atty immediately fires. This cannot happen on an unattended device. It can only happen through direct user interaction. This very minor and obscure issue has not dissuaded me from using my Lea, or recommending it. When I recommend it, I mention that you can't use the shutoff while charging, and not to try because if the battery is fully charged you can inadvertently ignite the atty, which will stay on until it burns out or you unplug the battery. Without exception, ever person I've mentioned this to has responded by asking why anybody would try to cut the battery off while it's still plugged in.




As for your difficulties in getting innokin to acknowledge the problem, I would point out two details.

1. The language barrier is immense. English and Chinese developed entirely without influence by the other for most of human history. They share no common words, grammar or structure, except in the limited instances where a word here or there was adopted by the other because no translation existed. A company like innokin would have little or no cause to hire a proper translator, and judging by the laughable instructions they include, it is clear that they have not. If you want to communicate clearly with them, you're going to have to find a person who is truly fluent in both English and Chinese, and convince them to translate for you. Unfortunately, anyone with adequate fluency probably has better things to do.

2. There is almost no chance they would acknowledge the problem. They may fix it, but never acknowledge. It would destroy their sales, and without due cause. This is a very minor problem, but the severity would seem infinitely greater if they acknowledge it openly, and a recall would be as catastrophic as it would be unnecessary. If they understand the problem, it will almost certainly be fixed, but I doubt you will receive any acknowledgment.

 

[Terraphon]

ok...Let's try this one.

It is my direct knowledge that people often defend something because they own it and would like it to be perfect.

It is my opinion that, in a worst case scenario, this device could malfunction / short circuit / overheat and cause a fire.

It is my experience that even non-rechargeable lithium batteries can short / malfunction / overheat and cause an explosion.

It is my direct knowledge that the protection circuitry in a protected li ion battery can fail and cause a dangerous condition when discharged too rapidly or upon overheating.

It is my opinion that any person or persons who attempt to minimize the potential danger of this, or any other potential safety issue are working outside the realm of reason and should take a step back and re-evaluate the situation from a non-emotionally-involved perspective.

It is a FACT that somewhere in the neighborhood of 300,000,000 Chinese (1 in 4) are either competent with or have functional knowledge of the English language. (Also, English is the official language of Hong Kong so...most of them are fluent)

"This year China will become the world's largest English-speaking nation of more than 300 million," said Mike Kraft, CEO of Lingo Media Corporation which is poised to cash in on this gigantic market. (Posted: January 18, 2010, 9:15 AM)

Innokin has contacted me and is working on reproducing and troubleshooting this issue.

That will be all.

 

[cozzicon]

ok...Let's try this one.

It is my direct knowledge that people often defend something because they own it and would like it to be perfect.

It is my opinion that, in a worst case scenario, this device could malfunction / short circuit / overheat and cause a fire.

It is my experience that even non-rechargeable lithium batteries can short / malfunction / overheat and cause an explosion.

It is my direct knowledge that the protection circuitry in a protected li ion battery can fail and cause a dangerous condition when discharged too rapidly or upon overheating.

It is my opinion that any person or persons who attempt to minimize the potential danger of this, or any other potential safety issue are working outside the realm of reason and should take a step back and re-evaluate the situation from a non-emotionally-involved perspective.

It is a FACT that somewhere in the neighborhood of 300,000,000 Chinese (1 in 4) are either competent with or have functional knowledge of the English language. (Also, English is the official language of Hong Kong so...most of them are fluent)



Innokin has contacted me and is working on reproducing and troubleshooting this issue.

That will be all.

This... is an excellent post.

You rock! (And yes I really mean it)

 

[VeeDubb65]

Innokin has contacted me and is working on reproducing and troubleshooting this issue.

I'm pleasantly surprised, and I hope that they're successful. We may disagree on the severity of the issue, but the one point we do agree on is that regardless of severity, it's real and should be fixed.

 

[Terraphon]

FYI, There's been a development and update on this situation.

Check it out, here.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...564-final-word-innokin-lea-battery-issue.html

 

[JustMeAgain]

Terraphon, the video is missing in the link- at least for me... just white space where the video should be.

 

[VeeDubb65]

Terraphon, the video is missing in the link- at least for me... just white space where the video should be.

Comes up fine for me, and I must say, it's another pleasant surprise that they were willing and able to get it worked out so quickly. I can now recommend the Lea without reservation.

 

[JustMeAgain]

Comes up fine for me, and I must say, it's another pleasant surprise that they were willing and able to get it worked out so quickly. I can now recommend the Lea without reservation.

I checked the thread again this morning and there it is...wonder what was up with that? lol