I've been trying to get a mesh wick in my SXK Corolla (poor man's Nectar...lol). It's been interesting to say the least.
The Genesis Buiders' Nuances & Rationales Collective
- Thread starter Vaya
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I've been trying to get a mesh wick in my SXK Corolla (poor man's Nectar...lol). It's been interesting to say the least.
@GrowthCurve Nice pics! For all my genesis experience, I've only made one or two half-decent U-wicks. Yours looks great... do you have any tips or instructions on how to get there?
@petrotech in reply to request for more pictures... lol...
28g dual parallel build 4 wraps in the Nextasis
28g dual parallel build 4 wraps in the Nextasis
Thank You @Vaya
If I were to make a coil with a 2.5mm bit, I would cut a rectangle of mesh about 35mm wide. But instead of cutting with the grain of the mesh, cutting at a 45 degree angle to the grain. Roll it up, it will flex into a 'U'. Perch the ends of the wick on metal tweezers. Torch the 'U'.
Jong Yeol ?( can't remember his whole name) has youtube videos He built a BF99 with mesh. I tried to build the Nectar like that. His vids are very good!
If I were to make a coil with a 2.5mm bit, I would cut a rectangle of mesh about 35mm wide. But instead of cutting with the grain of the mesh, cutting at a 45 degree angle to the grain. Roll it up, it will flex into a 'U'. Perch the ends of the wick on metal tweezers. Torch the 'U'.
Jong Yeol ?( can't remember his whole name) has youtube videos He built a BF99 with mesh. I tried to build the Nectar like that. His vids are very good!
My Take on Wick Insulators
The concept of wick insulators is pretty old school. They were pretty popular with the initial rise of genesis hybrid devices, notably the Zenesis devices.
If you're having persistent issues with hotspots and shorts in building your genny of choice, I think it's important to take a step back and look at what's really going on in your atty: an electrical current is being conducted through metal wire which is wrapped around a wick made of metal inside a tank made of metal. Lol. The potential for stray electricity to bound about in unwanted ways is only too high.
Here's a picture of a ceramic wick and two wick insulators:
The insulators are meant to 'sleeve' the wick at the point where the wick enters the wick hole in the build deck and extends into the tank. Sometimes, if the wick is touching the walls of the wick hole, this can cause issues with hotspots. The only thing I've found, though, is that youve gotta restrict your wick to a size that fits into the insulators - and, if you can tell from the picture, that is often extremely thin.
Therefore, my take on insulators is this: Useful in principle, cumbersome in practice. Properly made wicks will solve the issue before it begins!
The concept of wick insulators is pretty old school. They were pretty popular with the initial rise of genesis hybrid devices, notably the Zenesis devices.
If you're having persistent issues with hotspots and shorts in building your genny of choice, I think it's important to take a step back and look at what's really going on in your atty: an electrical current is being conducted through metal wire which is wrapped around a wick made of metal inside a tank made of metal. Lol. The potential for stray electricity to bound about in unwanted ways is only too high.
Here's a picture of a ceramic wick and two wick insulators:
The insulators are meant to 'sleeve' the wick at the point where the wick enters the wick hole in the build deck and extends into the tank. Sometimes, if the wick is touching the walls of the wick hole, this can cause issues with hotspots. The only thing I've found, though, is that youve gotta restrict your wick to a size that fits into the insulators - and, if you can tell from the picture, that is often extremely thin.
Therefore, my take on insulators is this: Useful in principle, cumbersome in practice. Properly made wicks will solve the issue before it begins!
Jong Yeol Kim
Excellent guy to watch, surely. His videos are kinda creepy, because they're completley silent, but are very informative. I used to have a whole bunch of diagrams he posted in a Facebook group or maybe itw as a forum that detailed *specifically* how to make the perfect builds for many different atomizers... Will have to take a look to see if I can find it!
That parallel build looks SWEET!!@petrotech in reply to request for more pictures... lol...
28g dual parallel build 4 wraps in the Nextasis
Found 'em... just a small sample of what I had at one point, unfortunately.
I honestly don't know which atomizer this first one refers to:
This second one is much more properly labeled (there's your BF-99!)
I honestly don't know which atomizer this first one refers to:
This second one is much more properly labeled (there's your BF-99!)
@petrotech in reply to request for more pictures... lol...
28g dual parallel build 4 wraps in the Nextasis
That's a sweet looking setup!
1x0.8mm flat ribbon A1 Kanthal in an iHybrid Standard
10-wrap 30g microcoil in an Israeli BMG-22 by Flow Productions...
My old DID build
Origen v1 dripper
10-wrap 30g microcoil in an Israeli BMG-22 by Flow Productions...
My old DID build
Origen v1 dripper
Here's one more guys, I'm not sure how much I agree with the width re: the 200sf mesh (80mm is a LOT) but I havent actually tried it. The other two seem pretty spot-on IME, though.
WTF is Annealing Wire, and Why?
Annealing refers to altering the workability of metals by heating them up to extremely high temperatures and then cooling them, either rapidly – as in exposing it to water – or slowly, by exposure to air.
When I anneal wire prior to wrapping a coil, I have several goals in mind. First and foremost, I find that pre-torching the wire helps to speed up the process of working out hot spots. When I work out hot spots by pulsing the coil, I am essentially getting the system I’ve built ‘used to’ having electricity flowing through it. Combining a properly constructed wick with annealed wire, achieved with two laps of the torch along the wire length, I have found that the process of pulsing afterwards is much quicker.
The second reason I choose to anneal wire is to reduce its ductility/increase its malleability. Put simply, the process yields a coiling wire that is less prone to ‘springing’ out of place, and which will retain its shape around the wick once wrapped and secured. I find the reduction in springiness most helpful when dealing with wire gauges 29 and above, as the thinner the wire is, the more it is likely to misbehave where behavior counts
I can’t stress enough that two brief laps around the wire with a torch is entirely sufficient – no more! The reasoning is similar to why one would not want to over-torch their mesh; namely, over-exposure to heat causes the metal to become brittle. When it comes to a wick, pieces of it will flake off as you continue to expose it to high temperatures through use, and will most likely interact with the electrical current in the wire to create mini-shorts – a bad thing when you’re inhaling from the same chamber where this is occurring.
With wire, I’ve over-annealed it to the point where a single wrap around the wick causes the wire to snap in half! If you’re lucky enough to make it several times around the wick with your brittle wire, and furthermore lucky enough to be able to trap it at a severe angle without it breaking, my experience has shown me that it’s going to be a rather brief period of time before the wire simply breaks during use.
One of the chief reasons that there is such a severe learning curve to building Genesis style atomizers is that so many aspects of the process are about achieving balance – oxidizing enough, but not too much. Annealing to a certain extent, but not over-doing it. Wrapping the coil snuggly around your wick, but not too tight. Making your wick wide, but not TOO wide! The list goes on and on. It’s helpful for me to take pause and think about this, though, from time to time, and I imagine it would be of help to someone fresh to this process as well.
Annealing refers to altering the workability of metals by heating them up to extremely high temperatures and then cooling them, either rapidly – as in exposing it to water – or slowly, by exposure to air.
When I anneal wire prior to wrapping a coil, I have several goals in mind. First and foremost, I find that pre-torching the wire helps to speed up the process of working out hot spots. When I work out hot spots by pulsing the coil, I am essentially getting the system I’ve built ‘used to’ having electricity flowing through it. Combining a properly constructed wick with annealed wire, achieved with two laps of the torch along the wire length, I have found that the process of pulsing afterwards is much quicker.
The second reason I choose to anneal wire is to reduce its ductility/increase its malleability. Put simply, the process yields a coiling wire that is less prone to ‘springing’ out of place, and which will retain its shape around the wick once wrapped and secured. I find the reduction in springiness most helpful when dealing with wire gauges 29 and above, as the thinner the wire is, the more it is likely to misbehave where behavior counts
I can’t stress enough that two brief laps around the wire with a torch is entirely sufficient – no more! The reasoning is similar to why one would not want to over-torch their mesh; namely, over-exposure to heat causes the metal to become brittle. When it comes to a wick, pieces of it will flake off as you continue to expose it to high temperatures through use, and will most likely interact with the electrical current in the wire to create mini-shorts – a bad thing when you’re inhaling from the same chamber where this is occurring.
With wire, I’ve over-annealed it to the point where a single wrap around the wick causes the wire to snap in half! If you’re lucky enough to make it several times around the wick with your brittle wire, and furthermore lucky enough to be able to trap it at a severe angle without it breaking, my experience has shown me that it’s going to be a rather brief period of time before the wire simply breaks during use.
One of the chief reasons that there is such a severe learning curve to building Genesis style atomizers is that so many aspects of the process are about achieving balance – oxidizing enough, but not too much. Annealing to a certain extent, but not over-doing it. Wrapping the coil snuggly around your wick, but not too tight. Making your wick wide, but not TOO wide! The list goes on and on. It’s helpful for me to take pause and think about this, though, from time to time, and I imagine it would be of help to someone fresh to this process as well.
I've broke the wire from annealing as well. That is why i quit doing it.
But in a way, I DO anneal, because I give the coil a few fires. Putting jig back in between fires to straighten it back out, before i wick it.
I melted a few wick insulators. Yeah, wick insulators are not necessary. It is weird, watching old tutorials like Zen's. I don't think people really knew what was happening with a mesh and coil setup. Like bits and pieces of info. But not the whole science behind them. And i can't blame anyone for saying to heck with mesh gennys!! But gennys were put out there into production anyway, for dimwits such as myself to gobble up and destroy. With bits and pieces of clues as to how to make them work.
I am grateful that I started out with el Cheapos!!
I loved trying to pull off the pulse method, using a raw mesh. I can get it to work, oddly enough--when I make a dual-coil-dual-wick, lower resistance. But a few winds of 30 or 32 on a single raw mesh? Nope lolol
I find torching some doesn't change the taste for me, and it keeps my wire from melting to the mesh, and prevents burning holes into the wick
But in a way, I DO anneal, because I give the coil a few fires. Putting jig back in between fires to straighten it back out, before i wick it.
I melted a few wick insulators. Yeah, wick insulators are not necessary. It is weird, watching old tutorials like Zen's. I don't think people really knew what was happening with a mesh and coil setup. Like bits and pieces of info. But not the whole science behind them. And i can't blame anyone for saying to heck with mesh gennys!! But gennys were put out there into production anyway, for dimwits such as myself to gobble up and destroy. With bits and pieces of clues as to how to make them work.
I am grateful that I started out with el Cheapos!!
I loved trying to pull off the pulse method, using a raw mesh. I can get it to work, oddly enough--when I make a dual-coil-dual-wick, lower resistance. But a few winds of 30 or 32 on a single raw mesh? Nope lolol
I find torching some doesn't change the taste for me, and it keeps my wire from melting to the mesh, and prevents burning holes into the wick
Last edited:
Great thoughts!! I definitely agree.
What is your take on some people's assertion that leaving the bottom 2/3rds of the wick un-torched A.) preserves flavor and B.) stops any darkening of the juice in the tank over time?
Personally, if I'm *that* concerned about that stuff happening (the latter only happens with certain juices, and seems to happen regardless of what preventative measures I take) then I'll use SS cable and only use a sleeve of oxidized mesh up top. I do have, however, several friends that will use SS cable with a mesh sleeve that is only 1/3rd of the length of a normal wick and that barely extends down past where the wick hole opens up into the tank. They claim they never experience any degradation of their juice color/flavor and that a minor tilt, the type that occurs with use anyway, more than suffices to keep their wicks saturated.
What is your take on some people's assertion that leaving the bottom 2/3rds of the wick un-torched A.) preserves flavor and B.) stops any darkening of the juice in the tank over time?
Personally, if I'm *that* concerned about that stuff happening (the latter only happens with certain juices, and seems to happen regardless of what preventative measures I take) then I'll use SS cable and only use a sleeve of oxidized mesh up top. I do have, however, several friends that will use SS cable with a mesh sleeve that is only 1/3rd of the length of a normal wick and that barely extends down past where the wick hole opens up into the tank. They claim they never experience any degradation of their juice color/flavor and that a minor tilt, the type that occurs with use anyway, more than suffices to keep their wicks saturated.
I don't agree with them Vaya... Torching my mesh wicks all over, and both sides, have never made my juice go dark...The juice travels up the whole height of the wick anyway, and excess juice on the wick not burned off is always mixed in with the juice in the tank over time...its not in a sealed off separate compartment, its the same wick so i cant really see not torching the mesh at the bottom helps them. Maybe if the atty is left sitting on the rack and not used with a tank full of juice in it, well maybe! But I can't see it. My juice gets used up well before that could happen.
On the second point about mesh toppers and SS rope......I will only use enough mesh on top just to fit the coil on...and never extend it down into the juice tank at all. Its only there as a juice retainer under the coil, and to act as a wick thickener so i can build a fatter coil. Another reason I don't extend it into the wick hole is that I use 2mm rope so there is space round the wick so air can get back into the tank as you take juice out, with no restrictions, and i don't want to introduce any unnecessary restriction into the build. No restrictions on air going back into the tank means no air locks, and that means no dry hits. Hence i use thin wicks. My last build on the In'Ax MkIII had a 4mm high topper, just enough to wind the coil on, with nothing spare. It works for me anyway..
.On the second point about mesh toppers and SS rope......I will only use enough mesh on top just to fit the coil on...and never extend it down into the juice tank at all. Its only there as a juice retainer under the coil, and to act as a wick thickener so i can build a fatter coil. Another reason I don't extend it into the wick hole is that I use 2mm rope so there is space round the wick so air can get back into the tank as you take juice out, with no restrictions, and i don't want to introduce any unnecessary restriction into the build. No restrictions on air going back into the tank means no air locks, and that means no dry hits. Hence i use thin wicks. My last build on the In'Ax MkIII had a 4mm high topper, just enough to wind the coil on, with nothing spare. It works for me anyway..
Last edited:
I didn't see a difference when I had 'raw' mesh in the tank. I think juice darkening/coil gunking go hand-in-hand, and depends on the juice and the amount of coloring and sweetener in the juice.
I have never tried cable with a mesh topper. I should maybe buy a couple to try. I stocked up on enough mesh (a HUGE tube, plus several 12 by 12 sheets) to last me till i'm dead.
I agree w Taff about wicks fitting loosely in the hole or around the post. I always wondered if those tightly rolled solid wicks were self-defeating-actually wringing themselves out like a dish-rag. I am doing good w my lazy straws
I have never tried cable with a mesh topper. I should maybe buy a couple to try. I stocked up on enough mesh (a HUGE tube, plus several 12 by 12 sheets) to last me till i'm dead.
I agree w Taff about wicks fitting loosely in the hole or around the post. I always wondered if those tightly rolled solid wicks were self-defeating-actually wringing themselves out like a dish-rag. I am doing good w my lazy straws
I do like SS Rope wicks with a small topper on them, usually 300 mesh as i believe it holds juice better than my normal 200SuperFine. I actually find that they wick superbly... you should try one GC.. it might surprise you
I am using my Rocket R at the moment with a SS Rope wick and a small 300 mesh topper...no dramas, no dry hits, rock solid build and just a stellar vape..can't really see how it could be better.
This is what i use for all my builds that I can get SS Rope onto:--2MM SS316 Marine Grade - 7 x 19 Wire Rope. Every genny I have that does not use a center post wick like the NextGen and In'Ax has a SS rope wick in it.
I am using my Rocket R at the moment with a SS Rope wick and a small 300 mesh topper...no dramas, no dry hits, rock solid build and just a stellar vape..can't really see how it could be better.
This is what i use for all my builds that I can get SS Rope onto:--2MM SS316 Marine Grade - 7 x 19 Wire Rope. Every genny I have that does not use a center post wick like the NextGen and In'Ax has a SS rope wick in it.
Popped the first coil. Used a 2mm screwdriver, wound it with 28g nichrome. I used a scrap of mesh that i think was 325. 25 mm wide 50 mm long. Cut on the bias. Made the u wick, threaded it thru the nichrome coil. Attached the leads. Mostly just jiggled the elbows of the wick to get rid of hot legs. Filled it w juice--and it leaked.
So this atty is neat, because you can unscrew the base without dismantling the build. Swapped out the o rings, put the other tank on. Now she's seaworthy, lolol
This BF99 clone leaked. I had the same probs with my Sat clones. Ya get what you pay for, i guess lol
Redid my Agas with a skinnier 2.0mm id coil, 6 wraps of 26g, and only 20 mm of 300 mesh. Leaving some open space around the wick @THE deck. Trying to stop being a baby about using my fill plugs. Will let you know how i get on lol
Redid my Agas with a skinnier 2.0mm id coil, 6 wraps of 26g, and only 20 mm of 300 mesh. Leaving some open space around the wick @THE deck. Trying to stop being a baby about using my fill plugs. Will let you know how i get on lol
- Status
Similar threads
