The Holy Grail Cart Filler! Maybe.

[imogene]

Okay, I've written about the idea of the Holy Grail Filter before

The Holy Grail Filter search is a search for perfection. Ideally, it would be perfectly safe, have no taste, never need replacing, hold an infinite amount of ejuice, and be small enough to fit into a device as thin as a cigarette. It doesn't exist, but the attempt to approach the ideal is worth the effort.

And I've tried the stainless steel mesh out just now. It works! It also makes the atty a lot less hot when smoking so that on my first puff I was afraid that I'd broken the atty. It stays cool. Someone else mentioned the same effect with copper mesh. I think the polyester was "insulating" the atty by holding air, making the atty heat up!

I used a stainless steel mesh filter from a broken french press. I wanted to use it since I knew from years of use that it doesn't rust, is exceptionally fine, and whatever harmful chemicals might have been on it have been consumed already by me in my coffee.

I just cut out three pieces, rolled them up, and stuck them in. (Later mod, I added a "bridge" made from a long thin strip I crammed between the outer and middle layers and let the attly push down in the center so that they touch for increased "wicking". I left out details: I cut the three strips so that the center one was shortest so that the atty wasn't pushed by it, the outer one was the height of the cart and the tallest, the middle one was the median height of the outer and middle one. Planned mod experiment: a circle in the center of the cart bridge, so that the atty forms a cone in the center.)

(Okay, actually, I cut, rolled, unrolled, cut again, rolled, stuck my fingers a few times on stainless steel needles, tried stuffing it into the cart again, unrolled, snipped... Repeat two more times, and then it was done!)

It doesn't hold an infinite amount of liquid, but it holds more than before, and the lower temperature in the chamber makes me feel more confident about vaping. I do think it will probably last for a long long long time.

I just thought I'd share. I'm supposed to be working right now, so I've gotta go, but I might post pics if I have time later!

 

[googled]

I did a quick google image search and came up with : http://www.lawsonshop.co.uk/prodimg...r.jpg&prodtitle=Bodum Replacement Filter Mesh
Is that what you're using?

 

[imogene]

I did a quick google image search and came up with : Bodum Replacement Filter Mesh
Is that what you're using?

That's the one from my other french press, the one that works, but yes, without the zigzag lines in it.

 

[rhoneil]

do you think I can get this from WalMart or a drug store?

 

[imogene]

do you think I can get this from WalMart or a drug store?

I don't know. For safety reasons, you may want to seek out metal mesh made for food. You might want to peruse a kitchen store for something that uses a fine mesh, such as a very fine strainer. Since it should last nearly forever, the higher cost shouldn't deter too much.

I don't feel comfortable using a metal that wasn't designed for use with food. All the time I see beautiful decorative metal bowls that clearly state "Do not use with food". I assume that means that they were made from unsafe metals such as lead or antimony that might poison us. Metal screens meant for windows might contain dangerous metals, too.

It did occur to me that this metal might be aluminum instead of stainless steel. I could try melting a scrap piece since I know that aluminum will melt at very low temperatures. A long ago I accidentally melted a metal pan on the stove!

I considered copper before but I was concerned about the fact that copper will oxidize. Trying to stay away from decomposing metals.

I just rolled three strips up, tallest strip on the outside, shortest in the inside, median size between, and I crammed a thin "bridge" across the top between the outer and second layer that the atty bridge pushed down into the center so that they touch. I made the outer layer the height of the interior of the cart and the inner layer I measured to be lower than the depth that the atty bridge extends into the cart. I used the alligator clips on my soldering station to hold the rolls so that it wouldn't unroll while I worked, but after being clipped a few times, it no longer unrolls.

I think for my next one I'm going to change the cart "bridge" by making a variation of the "copper screen" cart mod. I plan on making the center of the bridge the diameter of the interior of the cart, so that it's a circle with two strips on either side for cramming between the outer and middle layer, and let the atty make the cone shaped indention so that they touch for proper "wicking". The metal is very flexible, so I'm unconcerned that it will damage the atty, but if your measurements aren't very good when you're cutting the mesh, don't try it!

It's perfect for me. No flavor and it washes clean with soap and water. When I pull it out with pliers gripping the outer "layer" it comes out in a single piece and rinses easily. I love it! No plastic, no fiber, no taste, and reuseable. It's great!

When I drop ejuice in, I drip, then tip it to the side to see if I've exceeded it's "holding" limit. If I drip one drop too far, I use the tip of my ejuice bottle to "suck" up a very tiny amount. This keeps it from "flooding" the atty.

 

[rhoneil]

Right now im trying the brass screen for a pipe. Ill let you know how it goes.

 

[Quitter]

So this sounds like a steel mesh version of the brass mesh mod. Is this true?

 

[imogene]

So this sounds like a steel mesh version of the brass mesh mod. Is this true?

Ouch. Since I posted about my Holy Grail ideal solution possibly being stainless steel mesh first on this board before the brass thread existed, I think the brass mod is the "brass" version of my original Holy Grail ideal, but let's not quibble over petty things. The obvious next choice if you want to avoid fibers and plastic (for safety or taste) is a safe metal. It's not surprising that more than one person would think of the idea. After all, calculus was "invented" by three separate people independently of one another, all coming to the same conclusions.

I don't form a cone with the mesh, but rather I roll up three gradient sizes of mesh together, with the tallest layer on the outside and the shortest on the inside, cut a cart bridge out of mesh and cram it between the outer and middle layers. Then I let the atomizer bridge "push" the cart bridge down so that it's shape is molded to the shape of the atomizer bridge. It does make a horrible sound when I push the atomizer in for the first time, sort of a "crunch" and might make some people squeamish, so you might not want to try it, but the mesh I'm using is very flexible and the bridge is very thin. It doesn't worry me since I'm sure that it's not enough force to break it (the cart bridge is only about 2-3 mm wide). Same effect though. I might try taking part of the "brass mod" idea and make my bridge round shaped and let the atomizer bridge make a "cone" out of that so that I get more "wicking", but I may not since it's already wicking so well! However, if the cart is shaken it can "release" drops and a circular bridge may help "hold back" extra liquid.

Brass is probably safer than any plastic, but I can definitely taste oxidation in brass when it turns.

Does anyone know if brass smoking screens oxidize (turn green) in the presence of water or other liquids? I'm not sure anymore if my screen is made of stainless steel or aluminum, and I'd rather use stainless steel made for food.

In order of preference (for me):

1. Stainless steel mesh made for food (tasteless and safe)
2. Brass mesh (potentially oxidizes, which tastes bad to me, plus the metal may weaken and become particulate)
3. Aluminum mesh (aluminum is suspected to cause alzheimer's)

 

[Quitter]

I think your probably safest to use the gold screens made for pipes. This way you at least know that they were made to be "smoked".

 

[imogene]

I think your probably safest to use the gold screens made for pipes. This way you at least know that they were made to be "smoked".

But were those screens made to be wet all the time? I'm using a filter from a french press, so I know that it was made to be used with very hot liquids for human consumption. The cart area doesn't get "burnt" just very hot and very very wet.

 

[Quitter]

But were those screens made to be wet all the time? I'm using a filter from a french press, so I know that it was made to be used with hot liquids for human consumption. The cart area doesn't get "burnt" just very hot and very very wet.

Good point! Maybe i should try a quick experiment and soak a little piece of screen in a small puddle of juice and see what happens

 

[imogene]

Good point! Maybe i should try a quick experiment and soak a little piece of screen in a small puddle of juice and see what happens

Haw-haw. Very funny. Do you really not know what happens to brass when you get it wet for a long time?

Here's a photo:

http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/4796986/122544-main_Full.jpg

That's decomposing brass caused by oxidation. And it tastes bad.

 

[imogene]

Here's some more informtion about the corrosion of brass with water, mind you, they are talking about a water fountain, which isn't meant to be eaten or smoked

Brass under water without oxidization

Both copper and brass can react with water. Brass is much more interesting because it is a mixture of copper and zinc. Under certain circumstances the zinc can be dissolved out of the brass to leave a dull copper coloured representation of the original brass part. This corrsion process is called "dezincification" and has been known for at least 40 years. The mechanism by which it goes depends on the composition of the brass and the water, but not all brasses go in all waters. If you want corrosion resistant brass, I would ask your local plumbing supply shop what tehy recommend. Similarly, copper will oxidise in water to form a layer of copper oxide/hydroxide. To prevent discolouration of both brass and copper, why not coat the parts in a good clear lacquer or varnish?



Trevor Crichton
R&D practical scientist - UK

Here's a lot more information from the DOE's "Ask a Scientist"

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem00/chem00828.htm

First, commercial "copper" or "brass" is usually an alloy.
There are dozens of types, depending upon the intended application. So the
"type" of brass you have may be a factor. Second, under "normal" conditions
copper / brass corrodes to form a complex blue-green impervious surface
layer that prevents further corrosion. This is called "patina" and you will
see it on "copper" roofs and "bronze" statues. It is considered a desirable
esthetic property, as well as protective feature of the object. Third,
corrosion requires five elements: a corrosive metal, oxygen, water, a
catalyst (in your case the chloride in the salt water), a porous oxidation
surface layer.

It's possible that pipe screens won't corrode with water, but I don't know if they will.

 

[rhoneil]

Good point! Maybe i should try a quick experiment and soak a little piece of screen in a small puddle of juice and see what happens

Id like to know.

 

[rhoneil]

Wow, you guys are making me want to go back to PTB. At least that was made to be wet and really hot in preparation of a product to be consumed by humans. I have tried the brass mesh for pipes. It was the second cheapest thing I have purchased to stick in my cart next to the PTB. The vapor, taste and throat hit seems to be the same as the FRF PTB mod Im using with a little easier draw. I am concerned with what comes out of the metal. My other concern is the fact that it has the potential of ruining my atty. I have one atty that has all the material crushed and broken off the solid metal bridge that holds it up. All things being equal... who knows?

rho

 

[imogene]

Wow, you guys are making me want to go back to PTB. At least that was made to be wet and really hot in preparation of a product to be consumed by humans. I have tried the brass mesh for pipes. It was the second cheapest thing I have purchased to stick in my cart next to the PTB. The vapor, taste and throat hit seems to be the same as the FRF PTB mod Im using with a little easier draw. I am concerned with what comes out of the metal. My other concern is the fact that it has the potential of ruining my atty. I have one atty that has all the material crushed and broken off the solid metal bridge that holds it up. All things being equal... who knows?

rho

Bad news there. PTB is made from PET plastic. This year, scientists discovered that PET water bottles leaches estrogen mimicking hormones and heavy metals (such as antimony) at room temperature and they are predicting that eventually PET will be banned for use with food. That's the third plastic in three years that they've found to be unsafe to be used with food. That's when I decided to try and go without plastic as much as I can.

We live in a hazardous world.

You have to make your own decisions here. I like using the metal mesh I'm using now and I'm seeking a stainless steel option, if I can find one, if the one I'm using now turns out to be aluminum. I'm willing to take my chances with it until I find a verifiable stainless steel mesh made for food.

They do make stainless steel pipe screens, btw.

Are you saying that it broke your atty? I was very careful when I cut my three screens to make sure that the center one didn't touch the atty bridge when inserted and that it was wide enough to hold the other to layers away from the center, which took a lot of fiddling, rolling, measuring, unrolling, cutting, and re-rolling and some seriously scratched up fingers. I use the small "cart bridge" across the top as my primary "wick" for the atty bridge itself.

 

[rhoneil]

Bad news there. PTB is made from PET plastic. This year, scientists discovered that PET water bottles leaches estrogen mimicking hormones and heavy metals (such as antimony) at room temperature and they are predicting that eventually PET will be banned for use with food.

We live in a hazardous world.

You have to make your own decisions here. I like using the metal mesh I'm using now and I'm seeking a stainless steel option, if I can find one, if the one I'm using now turns out to be aluminum. I'm willing to take my chances with it until I find a verifiable stainless steel mesh made for food.

They do make stainless steel pipe screens, btw.

Are you saying that it broke your atty? I was very careful when I cut my three screens to make sure that the center one didn't touch the atty bridge when inserted and that it was wide enough to hold the other to layers away from the center, which took a lot of fiddling, rolling, measuring, unrolling, cutting, and re-rolling and some seriously scratched up fingers. I use the small "cart bridge" across the top as my primary "wick" for the atty bridge itself.

Bad news indeed for the plastic companies that have all that water in plastic bottles. The good news is, now I have an explanation for my developing man boobs. Jokes aside, It would be nice to have something that would work and is safe. Maybe we could just use the same material that the atty bridge is made of.

rho

 

[rhoneil]

They do make stainless steel pipe screens, btw.

Are those the silver ones. If so Im off again to the Smoke Shack. I took all my brass ones out and discarding them. To be honest right now Id rather have bigger boobs than green lungs. Neither if I can help it.

rho

 

[imogene]

I was actually just concerned about the flavor of brass when it corrodes and the possibilty that it was weaken as it decomposed and I'd be sucking down brass bits into my lungs. I had no idea it was poisonous!

verdigris
\ver"di*gris\ (?), n. [f. vert-de-gris, apparently from verd, vert, green + de of + gris gray, but really a corruption of ll. viride aeris (equivalent to l. aerugo), from l. viridis green + aes, aeris, brass. see verdant, and 2d ore.]
1. (chem.) a green poisonous substance used as a pigment and drug, obtained by the action of acetic acid on copper, and consisting essentially of a complex mixture of several basic copper acetates.

verdigris

Green-blue coating of copper ethanoate that forms naturally on copper, bronze, and brass. It is an irritating, poisonous compound made by treating copper with ethanoic acid, and was formerly used in wood preservatives, antifouling compositions, and green paints.

 

[Suwat]

I use the wire mesh inside the atty with good result. Still needs some adjustment thou. It seems a bit on the dry side. I took apart one atty, carefully unrolled the wire mesh, cleaned the pieces up, and rolled them back like a roll of paper. The height seemed to be just perfect. You can squeeze the thing to fit the shape to the ct. As of now (24 hrs) there's no leakage but a little harder to refill. Anyway, thanks for the idea.