The law on E Cigarettes in each state

[AJAJAJ105]

I can see there is a lot of confusion about what is legal and each state seems to be different. So I offer this thread to anyone who would like to give an educated opinion on what the law is in the state they are in, or whether or not they know about other state laws.

Personally I would like to know what the law is in the state of victoria on E Cigarettes/E-juice ect ect

 

[soundasleep]

I've done a stack of research and enquiries into this, but I'll try and give a brief summary.

Nicotine is a Scheduled poison in Australia. Schedule 7 to be exact. The original intent of this listing is for pure nicotine which is extremely deadly (1000mg/ml, 2 drops can kill). It is the current viewpoint of our health authorities that ejuice with nicotine for recreational use falls under this listing. Although there are no laws at a Federal/Customs level preventing it's importation, there are laws at a State level making possession and use illegal.

But nicotine can fall under other Schedules depending on it's usage. This is where it gets tricky.

Schedule 6 (like Eucalyptus oil) is when concentrations are at or below 3% (30mg/ml) and for vetinary purposes.
Schedule 4 is for "aid in withdrawl from tobacco smoking" as gum, lozenges or spray.
Schedule 2 is for "aid in withdrawl from tobacco smoking" via inhalation.

Ironically tobacco packed for smoking is exempt (they will claim this is due to State and Federal laws on cigarette manufacturing and sale) and smokeless tobacco isn't mentioned at all, yet can be imported if you are willing to take the risk of getting hit with $400+ in tobacco excise.

The last committee meeting decided that the Schedule 2 listing was intended for the Nicorette Inhaler, and since research shows this is majority absorped by the mouth area, it should be moved to S4 and the S2 listing should be scrapped.

They also decided that eJuice with nicotine for therapeutic use should be considered S4. This is where it gets REALLY tricky.

Schedule 4 requires a doctors prescription. This means (in theory) if you get a script from your GP you should be able to legally import and use eJuice with nicotine. Unless it's majority absorbed by the oromuscal, then it's exempt (no prescription required). Their is evidence that this is how e-cigs work, but since the patient says lung inhalation, that's how they claim it works. This means you should be able to import using the Personal Import Scheme (access to unapproved medicine or therapeutic goods) at a maxium of 3 months use per order or 15 months use over 12 months of orders. This is the LEGAL stance. This is covered by the Therapeutic Goods Act 1990.

POLICY is a whole different matter. The State Health Departments and the Therapeutic Goods Adminsitration claim to follow the advise of the Scheduling Secreatariat and committee decisions, but all refuse to acknowledge that ecigs can be used as a therapeutic product. They CLAIM that it's all Schedule 7 and therefore illegal.

Personally, I think it's a case of nobody willing to stick their neck out and be the one who said "yes you can import it".

Slightly off topic, the TGA claims that e-cigs can't be therapeutic since they aren't on the Australian Therapeutic Goods Registry. But if they were, they could be sold locally and wouldn't require the Personal Import Scheme. They also say you can import Nicorette Nasal Spray despite this not being on the Register since it's an "approved NRT". Yet nobody can explain to be how a product can be approved when not on the Registry - as they take the exact opposite stance on e-cigs.

Finally, they claim you can't import an unbranded solution that is nearly chemically identical to nicotine spray, even if used for the same purpose. That's interesting, as nicotine spray and eJuice are *almost* the same thing. Nicotine spray just has a few extra chemicals not present in eJuice, but the base is exactly the same (PG, VG, nicotine and flavoring).

TL - DR version:
There doesn't appear to be any laws restriction importation of eJuice with nicotine as long as you get a doctor's prescription. Don't bother actually asking any government department about it though as:
a) they don't know their own laws
b) they only tell you half the story and deny the other half (despite links to laws on their own website)
c) nobody wants to stick their neck out

 

[AJAJAJ105]

Cheers for that Soundasleep. A really good help!

 

[1SicPuppy]

Personally, I think it's a case of nobody willing to stick their neck out and be the one who said "yes you can import it"

I did recently contact a few places and asked how to import liquid nic legally into QLD and after being bounced around I did eventually get the following reply from the TGA and would be interested on your thoughts as it is not a direct "Yes" But to me its darn close.

Dear <edited>
The current information on eCigarettes is on the TGA website at the following link:

Electronic cigarettes

The TGA does not regulate for personal importation however you would need to enquire with the Customs area regarding their regulations depending on what substances are in the cartridge you are purchasing.


Yours sincerely,

Medical Devices Information Line

Telephone: 1 800 141 144
Fax: 02 6232 8785

Websites:
Information www.tga.gov.au/devices/devices.htm
e-Business www.ebs.tga.gov.au



From: info
To: Devices@TTRA
Date: 18/11/2011 11:38 AM
Subject: Fw: New feedback received for Import/export of medicines and drug trials [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Sent by: <edited>

The above was a direct response to my email to info@tga.gov.au

Hello and thank you for your quick reply

You have stated " the retail sale of electronic cigarettes is illegal", This is very frustrating for me because everybody seems to give a different answer, I was under the impression that in some states the importation of nicotine was restricted hence me asking how I go about applying for personal importation.
Would you mind giving me a link to the documentation that states that the retail sale of an e cigarette is illigal because as far as I can see it it only the sale of nicotine that is illegal and only then in some states.
This is very frustrating, saying that something is illegal and speaking on behalf of the government without providing proper documentation seems to only confuse the matter without an accurate answer to my question.

I hope you don't mind but I have updated my questions in an attempt to get a informative answer.


Am I as a QLD resident eligible to apply for the personal importation of nicotine to aid in curbing an addiction ?
If no, Why ?
If yes, How ?


Thank You

<edited>

 

[soundasleep]

It's good to see that the TGA is doing a little less bulls-hitting these days and actually acknowledging that the only possible restrictions to personal imporation would be at a Customs level - and there are none. Check out this for a letter from Customs.

You'll never get a response to your second one. Trust me, I've tried MANY times.

Your are right on a few points. There currently are no laws preventing the sale of e-cig hardware, or 0 nicotine juice. It's the nicotine which is the issue. eJuice with nicotine is chemcially very similar to nicotine spray, which is Schedule 4 Exempt, meaning it needs to be TGA listed to be sold in Australia but scripts are not needed. You can import on that basis (if it's just juice, no hardware) and then use it "off label".

Recreational usage is Schedule 7 (completely illegal in all States and Territories) but for therapeutic use it's Schedule 4. This means a script is needed to legally import.

This article goes into more detail.

 

[Pleski]

Thanks for the interesting post. I'm still confused by the laws, but I suppose everyone is. I was really shocked when I found out e-cigarrettes and e-juice were not being sold over the counter in my state NSW.

It seems you're allowed to buy nicotine over the counter as long as you're not enjoying it, but using it as a means to give it up (NRT).

Yet you can buy alcohol and caffeine pills/drinks over the counter for purely enjoyment purposes, and you certainly don't need a chemist to pretend to be supervising you like they do with NRT. Seems like a double standard to me.

 

[Vaptor]

I've just got of the phone with customs. They told me that the 250 cigarettes limit only apply to travelers, via mail I can import more but will pay duty. Regarding E-juice which is in same tobacco category, she confirmed that 3 months supply is fine and the new 2012 regulation only applies to travelers also. From this I understand that e-juice with Nic is legal in AU for personal use.
Obviously it it wasn't legal they would not allow the import for personal use. Right?

 

[Sfera72]

But what is a 3 month supply? For me it's 1 litre 12 mg/ml minimum.

 

[tommy11]

Obviously it it wasn't legal they would not allow the import for personal use. Right?

It is legal but you cannot sell it within Australia. You can buy it and import it.
Yes it's absolutely nonsensical. What did you expect from the TGA?

You will not get arrested for using it or buying it from overseas, that's all you need to know.

But what is a 3 month supply? For me it's 1 litre 12 mg/ml minimum.

That's the thing, there is no dosage per day. You can import as much as you like. I'm sure a gallon would raise suspicions. (But it would go bad before you used it all anyway)
But within reason, you can import as much as you want.

Also, I highly doubt you use 1 litre of e-juice in 3 months. Even if it's pre-mixed.
Unless that was your joke.

Dammit I think that was a joke, ok disregard the previous

Also, I have a request that we should sticky this and have a big note at the top asking not to e-mail the TGA about the legal status of nicotine juice. All it's gonna do is make them ban it more quickly.

 

[Timtam]

They told me that the 250 cigarettes limit only apply to travelers

It was reduced to 50 recently.

 

[Damian Duncan]

Typical government, I'm surprised they don't Tax us on it going through customs.

 

[haiqu]

But nicotine can fall under other Schedules depending on it's usage. This is where it gets tricky.

Schedule 6 (like Eucalyptus oil) is when concentrations are at or below 3% (30mg/ml) and for vetinary purposes.
Schedule 4 is for "aid in withdrawl from tobacco smoking" as gum, lozenges or spray.
Schedule 2 is for "aid in withdrawl from tobacco smoking" via inhalation.

The 2012 Poisons List no longer has a Schedule 2 entry. I assume we're now covered by Schedule 7 (Dangerous Poisons). Interestingly Nicorette Inhalers continue to be sold by chemist shops without a script - I checked this two days ago in Qld.

The TGA website seems to have a fairly hysterical approach to it all. One document they reference suggest that if anyone comes in contact with a person using vaping gear they should call the police.

Well here's my opinion for what it's worth: they should buy a clue. I just dropped from 60 a day to 10 a day with a cheap starter kit that doesn't even contain nicotine. I've been smoking 45 years and tried all the "approved" remedies. Fsck 'em.

Rob

 

[haiqu]

Slightly off topic, the TGA claims that e-cigs can't be therapeutic since they aren't on the Australian Therapeutic Goods Registry. But if they were, they could be sold locally and wouldn't require the Personal Import Scheme. They also say you can import Nicorette Nasal Spray despite this not being on the Register since it's an "approved NRT". Yet nobody can explain to be how a product can be approved when not on the Registry - as they take the exact opposite stance on e-cigs.

This is a misrepresentation of the TGA's stance. As the federal body responsible for approving all therapeutic goods (thus their name) they take the position that until something is tested by them it's not an approved therapeutic good. They don't - or at least shouldn't - have any opinion on whether something they haven't tested has any efficacy. This comes across pretty obviously in the TV news reports, where the worst they've said is "we just don't know."

As to whether Nicorette Spray is on any registry or not I can't say, but I'm pretty sure they will have tested it and approved it, otherwise it wouldn't be available in chemist shops.

Here's the thing: any company producing these e-cigs can apply for approval. But unfortunately to do so would then be an admission that you've allowed the TGA to control your vaping. I say they don't have the right, given that it presents a far lower risk than smoking analogs. OTOH if we say that it's a tobacco product a whole shipload of other laws come into play.

This all comes down to power, control, world domination and the W.H.O. If something is supposed to enhance health or reduce disease then vested interests want it under their purview or banished. There's no middle ground. As soon as I see any kind of report on health and safety in the media I immediately switch off, since it's government brainwashing pure and simple.

The laws on devices that resemble cigarettes being banned (including lolly Fags and cigars) are the work of irrational fanatics. These are the same idiots who brought us political correctness and rewrote all the laws to say his/her and he/she. They are stupid, illiterate and DANGEROUS and are working on a hidden agenda.

Rob

 

[haiqu]

Further thoughts on how and why the TGA can have an opinion on vaping equipment.

The Therapeutic Goods Act 1989 gives the TGA a right to control not only poisonous substances, but the containers they come in. It's a stretch to say that an e-cig is a "container" but that's their weird logic.

The problem isn't the TGA employees but the politicians who allow legislation that has such ambiguous interpretation. And don't think that it's accidental, there are myriad examples in other spheres.

Rob