the lesser of 2 evils

[EddardinWinter]

i think im gonna go ahead and try to do a test and see what happens to get to the bottom of whats happening to me , as much as the idea disgusts me , one way or the other i have to find out what is doing this and if it is the withdrawl symptoms then i will seek ways to ease them
if its the vapor , juices or products or hardwear maybe you all can help or the guys a 1 of the local vape stores can help me find a solution or a fix .
first thing im gonna do is go talk with the guy at the vape store by my house tonight hes open till 9:00 before i do this to see what suggestions he has before i go to this extreme . of smoking again .

i will post with my finding in a few days . i still don't like this idea though .

I am sure you don't like it. But, I see no other alternatives (based on what I have read from you), other than the purchase of some WTA juice to see if that helps. Figuring out why you are having this issue is paramount.

Don't quit vaping! Keep vaping and have just a few analogs a day and see if that helps. If your symptoms disappear while you are vaping AND smoking, it is likely your symptoms are smoking withdrawal, not vaping. Make sense?

 

[Denrock316]

I am sure you don't like it. But, I see no other alternatives (based on what I have read from you), other than the purchase of some WTA juice to see if that helps. Figuring out why you are having this issue is paramount.

Don't quit vaping! Keep vaping and have just a few analogs a day and see if that helps. If your symptoms disappear while you are vaping AND smoking, it is likely your symptoms are smoking withdrawal, not vaping. Make sense?

I second this for sure. If you just go back to smoking and stop vaping you'll never know which is causing your issues.

 

[Uma]

I didn't read the whole thread, sorry for that, still doing it, so I might mention stuff you already tried.

Me being closer to your day count, I can share some of my experiences. My nose is still congested by the way, waiting myself for that to go away. But it doesn't bother me too much. I don't blow vapor out of my nose though, as well as I didn't use to blow the cig smoke of my nose as well.

Setup: I can tell that you don't have enough power. 2.5 Ohm at 3.5 V is around 4.9 W. I couldn't vape anything below 6 W. I tried at first the recommended 5.2 W, it felt like I was inhaling exhaust gas from a car. So first try around 4.0-4.2 V see if that helps.

Flavors: There are some that I cannot vape at all, although some people appreciate them. They are simply physically hurting my mouth and throat. One of them is Pinacolada, which has coconut, an ingredient found in your juice as well. When I vape Pinacolada I feel my mouth and throat like they are on fire. I have Rum separately, that one is not the culprit. I don't have the pineapple though. The ones that I can vape all day are Hangsen RY4 and Liqua Berrymix. They don't produce any discomfort. Especially the berry mix, that one is a light soothing caress for throat. RY4 can scratch a bit sometimes.

Are you drinking something while vaping? I found that taking a sip of something after each inhale is good. I drink my coffee with milk and can tell that is much better to vape with than water, the throat irritation and overall mouth/throat feeling was better than with water.

The tank: Protank 2 has a airy inhale, it lets you drag a lot. I bought an Evod just to see how it is and I could see why some people preffer it. The draw is more tight and because you don't draw too much you get less irritated.

Nicotine level: I use 24 and 18. I bought all the rest lower strengths and tried a tank of each. Bad experience, on the 6mg I felt desperate and hopeless the whole day.

Inhalation: I am still keeping the mist in my mouth for a good 2-3 seconds before inhaling. Failing to do that would scratch my throat and sting my lungs. I never use the nostrils for exhale.

I will write the following at the end since it's a very new experience for me: just today I made a coil with cotton and my throat and lung discomforts are gone. Cannot yet believe myself, but I could vape till I literally was light headed. Couldn't do that before. Anything more than 3 inhales without water and I would run around screaming. Maybe you can find someone from the forum who lives close to you to send you a ready made kanger coil ready made with cotton wick. Really worth trying.

For reference I started with an eVic and protank 2. Later on I bought an evod and a CE4. Still using eVic and protank 2.

+1~!!!!!
Plus, make sure to clean/sanitize your mouthpiece every day.

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

i pull 13 hr days 6 day some times 7 a week i sometimes forget what day it is . im in my office right now give that schedule a whirl and see if your not pounding coffee and nicotine im sitting here right next to ya .

The last year before I retired= 93 hrs per week after deducting weekends and holidays off. With completion bonuses, OT, Awards, etc I made a stinkin' fortune BUT took me 6 months to recuperate- was a favor for a very good friend that had helped grow my biz from a small sized biz to medium/ large. Worked a few 72 hr shifts- no food or sleep just water and smokes. Friend ended up with some very lucrative long term contracts because of our long hours so it was all very worthwhile.
Seeing as you've seen your Dr. and had tests done I'll bet you're dehydrated. When vaping and consuming copious amounts of caffeine it doesn't matter how much water you consume your body is in dehydration mode. Have seen it many, many times.

Edit: 61 yrs next month and still work but online in an unrelated industry- minimum 12 hr days and very stress full. Long hours are the norm these days. Wife is VP at a major Fin institution and puts in 12 hr days and works weekends at home online.

 

[DC2]

Fact: With my friends and a non profit vape prog I run the success rate is 83%.

Hey, that's great to hear!


I posted this a long time ago and I always wondered how close I was...

Personally, I believe if the entire population of people who have tried an electronic cigarette were surveyed we would find...

--20% success rate for those that bought a bad model and got no support
--35% success rate for those that bought a good model and got no support
--55% success rate for those that had support from someone using an electronic cigarette
--80% success rate for those that found this forum

NOTE: This is all just wild speculation on my part but hopefully someday we will have better information

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

Hey, that's great to hear!

Personally, I believe if the entire population of people who have tried an electronic cigarette were surveyed we would find...

--20% success rate for those that bought a bad model and got no support
--35% success rate for those that bought a good model and got no support
--55% success rate for those that had support from someone using an electronic cigarette
--80% success rate for those that found this forum

NOTE: This is all just wild speculation on my part but hopefully someday we will have better information
I posted this a long time ago and I always wondered how close I was...

After all the time and energy it's proving to be worthwhile. 90% of the converts have additive personalities and issues that they've successfully worked thru and smoking cessation is another step up the ladder and notch in their belt. They and I strongly believe their/ my success is based on group support such as seen here at ECF. In my 27 yrs as a recovering (fill in spaces...) I've found support groups to be an absolute MUST have.

 

[v8per]

Personally, i smoked for 50 years and from my very first vape 3 years and 3 months ago i have not picked up a cigarette, and feel better than ever. No more cough and I can breathe again, no more short of breath. I look better feel great and absolutely love vaping. I will never stop, even if it becomes illegal I am willing to go to jail for our right to vape. FDA and cigarette companies will not win this one. Anyway that's my 2 cents.

 

[Ryedan]

I'm really glad this thread has gone from a bit confrontational to trying our best to figure out what is causing you problems Skinr1 and helping you stay off cigarettes. My problem was with the term 'evil'. I hope I did not come across as snarky in my last post. I just couldn't understand where you were coming from.

started at 24mg ....to harsh
went to 18mg ........ still to harsh
dropped to 12mg ....still harsh but better
tried 8mg ........way better but lost a lot of throat hit ........which i found odd because i did all this buying liquids from the same dealer .i need that throat hit

When you say 'better' here, do you mean it hurt your throat less? I'm not referring to throat hit, rather less pain over time?

pro tank 2
ego twist
2.5 atomizer
12mg nic.............kinda hurts the throat though
PG 60%
VG 40%
have tried 100% of each found both had draw back at that ratio

I have tried several different juices from several different dealers in the past 50+ days

I been to the doc and they poked and prodded and everything else , found my nazel passages to be irritated and inflamed , well duhhhhhh
gee i knew that

my throat never hurt like this when i smoked i never got a nose bleed once when i smoked ever

The nose bleeds might be a symptom of quitting smoking, but irritation of your nasal passages like this should should not be happening.

Flavors: There are some that I cannot vape at all, although some people appreciate them. They are simply physically hurting my mouth and throat. One of them is Pinacolada, which has coconut, an ingredient found in your juice as well. When I vape Pinacolada I feel my mouth and throat like they are on fire. I have Rum separately, that one is not the culprit. I don't have the pineapple though. The ones that I can vape all day are Hangsen RY4 and Liqua Berrymix. They don't produce any discomfort. Especially the berry mix, that one is a light soothing caress for throat. RY4 can scratch a bit sometimes.

Are you drinking something while vaping? I found that taking a sip of something after each inhale is good. I drink my coffee with milk and can tell that is much better to vape with than water, the throat irritation and overall mouth/throat feeling was better than with water.

Inhalation: I am still keeping the mist in my mouth for a good 2-3 seconds before inhaling. Failing to do that would scratch my throat and sting my lungs. I never use the nostrils for exhale.

I will write the following at the end since it's a very new experience for me: just today I made a coil with cotton and my throat and lung discomforts are gone. Cannot yet believe myself, but I could vape till I literally was light headed. Couldn't do that before. Anything more than 3 inhales without water and I would run around screaming. Maybe you can find someone from the forum who lives close to you to send you a ready made kanger coil ready made with cotton wick. Really worth trying.

For reference I started with an eVic and protank 2. Later on I bought an evod and a CE4. Still using eVic and protank 2.

Great post phorumph with a lot of information on dealing with irritation from vaping. Trying something other than silica wick is a great isea. I also know of people who get a sore throat from Nichrome wire and do just fine with Kanthal. I believe Kanthal is what is most often used in clearos, cartos. ** Does anyone know for sure? **

Figuring out why you are having this issue is paramount.

Don't quit vaping! Keep vaping and have just a few analogs a day and see if that helps. If your symptoms disappear while you are vaping AND smoking, it is likely your symptoms are smoking withdrawal, not vaping. Make sense?

Another great option to try!

I have one more. I have the feeling you could be sensitive to the nicotine used in juice. It is different than what we got from cigarettes. If this is the case you should have noticed less irritation with lower nicotine juices, but it could take a couple of days to change. If that's true you could try to combine zero nic vaping with the patch, or some other nicotine delivery method. You will lose almost all throat hit, but the flavors really shine and it becomes a very smooth vape.

Let us know how it goes

 

[serenity21899]

i smoked for 30 years and all of my attempts at quitting failed. My husband basically tried to cut off my cigarette suppy (I was unemployed at the time), and that did not end well. He learned about ecigs at work, and told me about them. I agreed to try them. I never intended to quit smoking, I just want him off my case.

I wan't fond of Mistic (the 1st one I tried), but I soon realized that I was still getting nicotine, and the whole thing wasn't so bad. So, i got some Blus and it was better. Then Egos, ProVari, other mods......With each step it got easier to stick with it. Suddenly, I realized that I had actually quit and that I really didn't miss it that much.

There were struggles along the way, such as a sensativity to VG, allergic reations (to flavorings) and device failure. It really is easier to just smoke then to vape. My family and this forum encourage me along the way, and I kept vaping.

After almost a year, it would be silly for me to go back. I am down to 12mg, and will eventually work my way down to 0 nic.

I can diy, rebuild, own mechs, and have plenty of batteries. If the RDA banned everything, I would be good for at least a year without needing anything.

So, yes this vaping thing does work, and I will keep at it

 

[catalinaflyer]

Okay, I'll jump in here, posted this other places and I'll post it again.

I started off on August 2nd with a cheapo Chinese kit from a smoke shop in Stanwood, Washington. I had no intention or desire to quit my 1.5 to 2 pad Marlboro habit. I got the e-cig to use in my brand new $160,000 semi truck my company bought me so it wouldn't stink like analog smoke.

I opened a pack of analogs right before going into the smoke shop. The next morning I picked up a load in Renton, Washington going to Miami, Florida. On Monday morning I realized I still had over half that pack of analogs I opened Friday afternoon. I rolled the window down, pitched them out on the highway and have not touched an analog since. I have sat around on the party barge at the lake getting half-in-the-bag with about a dozen other people all smoking analogs and I didn't even feel a desire to pick one up.

Fad - Maybe but I can say I have a sense of smell and taste again. (Analog smokers now stink, sorry) I feel better than I have in many years. Is vaping the golden pill - no, inhaling anything other than clean Montana air is not the best choice but for me personally vaping has given me my sense of taste and smell (though some things I wish I still couldn't smell), my new truck still smells new with a hint of Salted Caramel and Red Bull (my two favorite vapes) and my clothes don't stink. I started with my first bottle of juice at 24 but I found a super local B&M in Kansas where I live and the owners have worked me down to 6 for all day with a small clearo with some 12 to start the morning with my Starbucks. She said my next fill up is going to be ZERO nic and honestly I haven't felt any different so if I can get of the nic completely then I can start working on giving up vaping completely. Honestly though I will miss the hobby aspect of it probably more than the act of vaping itself. I have started building my own coils and just this past week while at home I fired up the lathe and tried my hand at building my own RDA.

 

[Jman8]

i think im gonna go ahead and try to do a test and see what happens to get to the bottom of whats happening to me , as much as the idea disgusts me , one way or the other i have to find out what is doing this and if it is the withdrawl symptoms then i will seek ways to ease them
if its the vapor , juices or products or hardwear maybe you all can help or the guys a 1 of the local vape stores can help me find a solution or a fix .
first thing im gonna do is go talk with the guy at the vape store by my house tonight hes open till 9:00 before i do this to see what suggestions he has before i go to this extreme . of smoking again .

i will post with my finding in a few days . i still don't like this idea though .

As smoking is back on the table for you again, I'll just note that I am one who chooses to do both. Actually, I already said that in this thread. But part of what I see you conveying in this thread is you weren't 100% sure you wanted to quit smoking. With vaping, you don't need to be, and I'm sure you realize that. Yet, unlike 99% of all vapers, I'm not in the boat that says you vape only to stop smoking. Instead, I see it as an alternative. I often go days without a smoke and when I have one, I like that I have one. I also like that I've cut way back on smoking. Of the umpteen positive things that vapers brag about now that they no longer smoke, that is also true for me: better health, no coughing, spend far less money on smoking - which would make for a great banner but whatever.

Last time in my life I was nic free (non-smoker), I had headaches for too often. Now as a nic user, I still get headaches (like everyone), but very infrequently. So, if I trust what my body is telling me, I'm okay with my current choices for ingesting nicotine.

Current vape I'm using gives me a slight, recurrent sore throat. Some of the other things you mentioned from vaping, I've experienced, as I'm sure others have. Minus the nosebleeds. If I compare my vaping/smoking experiences to my cold turkey experiences, it is virtually a no brainer, cold turkey (in my case) was far less harmful to my system than vaping is, or I reckon ever could be.

I would suggest you do both smoking and vaping, but for as long as that makes sense for you. I prefer vaping over smoking, but not enough to say I need to stop smoking and be done with that 'dirty' habit. Again, I really like that I get to enjoy an occasional smoke. Do I enjoy every smoke I've had? Nope. Do I always enjoy every vape I've ever had? Nope. But the combo I think is good for many reasons that many ex-smokers seemingly can no longer relate to. I really do believe that if you do both, a time will come where you set smoking aside or cut so far back that it will be virtually equal to having quit smoking. Cause the reality of all the anti-smoking propaganda is based on idea that smokers don't smoke in moderation. They, or we, used to smoke 15+ a day, and over time that takes a fairly serious toll on the human body. Smoking one or two a day, not such a serious toll.

 

[rhean]

You're overthinking this.

No one can prove to anyone that, ten years down the line, vaping will not turn out to be worse than smoking, as no one here is a psychic. However, we KNOW, right now, that cigarettes are bad for us. I think that going back to smoking cigarettes--ie, back to something that we know is bad for us--because we fear that, ten years down the line, someone might come up with evidence showing that vaping might be just as bad is...well...silly.

Re addictions: I don't believe that addictions are "evil," and I don't believe that all addictions are dangerous. I'd rather differentiate: Caffeine is not a deadly substance, and being addicted to it is neither "evil" nor dangerous. Unlike caffeine, cigarettes are deadly. Being addicted to them is dangerous, not because the act of being addicted is dangerous or evil, but because CIGARETTES, themselves, are dangerous.

 

[Skinr1]

ok good morning all :

left work last night and went over to my local vape shop and spoke with the owner there about what was going on he has been vaping for years and is very knowledgable . he made a few suggestions but he highly recommended i go see an ENT. as many of you suggested . he was very hesitant however to suggest anything until i saw an ENT because he didnt want to suggest anything wrong , which is understandable but he was very clear to suggest that if something about what i was doing using these products was hurting me to STOP doing it . and see a spec . he also added that in his exp , and things he has seen he would be willing to bet its some type of an E-juice sensitivity or irritation of some kind . but he was unwilling to speculate until he knew exactly what a doc said . he also suggested i not try any more ejuices of any kind at this time as to not make matters worse until i got medical answers as to what exactly was going on , again very understandable response . i took that info left him went to the store got a pack of cigs .

Finding #1 . NO FRIGGIN WAY CANT DO IT . tried to smoke 1 cig and gagged and got an instant headache
and very light headed .
Result . that idea is out the window .

actions :
#1 . called my Doc office last night , and got a referal to an ENT this coming tues .
#2 . put the PV away , no more vaping , threw the cigs in the Garbage as a last resort went to walgreens and picked up some nicorette as much as i hate the taste
and now im just doing the gum till tues .
lets see what happens .

on with the work day . this isnt gonna be fun at all .

 

[Denrock316]

Hang in there, I hope you get it figured out so you can eventually vape without the discomforts/problems.

 

[Ryedan]

left work last night and went over to my local vape shop and spoke with the owner there about what was going on he has been vaping for years and is very knowledgable . he made a few suggestions but he highly recommended i go see an ENT.

IMO that is a great vape shop owner

Best of luck with it and I hope your day doesn't turn out too bad!

 

[DancingHeretik]

When I first started vaping, I always had a sore throat and a dry cough. As long as I drink plenty of fluids, it's not a problem. But, the bloody nose is totally different. I've only ever had a bloody nose in the winter when the heat is on. I don't keep my house all warm and toasty in the winter because of that.

My brother has had problems with nose bleeds since he was a child. The doctor "prescribed" jello. We always had jello in the house. But, he's been vaping a couple of weeks longer than I have (2 1/2 years) and hasn't had any problems with nosebleeds from vaping.

I hope the doctor helps you figure this out. Good luck, and make sure to let us know what the doctor says and what happens next.

There are a lot of people pulling for you (a lot more than actually post on this thread, I'm sure). Most of us just read and lurk, but still do care and pray.

 

[K_Tech]

#1 . called my Doc office last night , and got a referal to an ENT this coming tues .
#2 . put the PV away , no more vaping , threw the cigs in the Garbage as a last resort went to walgreens and picked up some nicorette as much as i hate the taste
and now im just doing the gum till tues .
lets see what happens .

on with the work day . this isnt gonna be fun at all .

Hoping everything works out okay!

My brother has had problems with nose bleeds since he was a child. The doctor "prescribed" jello. We always had jello in the house. But, he's been vaping a couple of weeks longer than I have (2 1/2 years) and hasn't had any problems with nosebleeds from vaping.

That's a good thing, because snorting jello has GOT to be traumatic!

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

A study on inhaled PG causing nasal hemorrhage at concentration as low as 0.22%.
"Exposure to the above concentrations of propylene glycol caused nasal haemorrhage and ocular discharge in a high proportion of animals, possibly as a result of dehydration of the nares and eyes."
Subchronic nose-only inhalation study of p... [Food Chem Toxicol. 1989] - PubMed - NCBI

I see an ENT on a regular basis because of sinus issues and have converted 5 of his patients. When I told him I was vaping one of the first things he warned me about was dehydration. He was slightly skeptical at first and admitted so. He is now thoroughly convinced vaping is a viable and more logical approach to smoking cessation based on his personal experience with patients that had tried every traditional smoking cessation prog without success.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Well, aren't you just a ray of sunshine, OP. I would submit that the premise of your question is seriously flawed, and not because vaping is obviously the lesser of two evils, but how you did not cite any sources or authority for your premise, mentioning, at best, weak, anecdotal evidence that was biased by your observation in the development of your premise. The facts are that vaping IS a do less harm therapy that has successfully helped more smokers quit smoking than any other method every created. It is approximately two magnitudes less harmful than smoking (100 times less harmful). I refer you to CASAA for this authority and cite CASAA as the reference. Evil has nothing to do with any of it. This is about harm reduction, and the evidence is on our side.

Since both my Mother and younger sister both died of lung cancer due to their heavy smoking, I figured I would be next, or certainly in line for that horrible conclusion, and had seriously tried quitting 18 times. Vaping was the 18th time, and the only one that worked. I would say that anything that gets you off smoking, except perhaps chantrix, is a step in the right direction, and far less harmful than the combustion of an analog. 4,000 chemicals in smoke, over 100 known carcinogens, over 100 chemicals in cigarettes designed to increase the uptake of nicotine or addiction. BT will have it comeuppance some day. TG for vaping.

 

[unrl]

Starting my vaping experience soon, hopefully it will be a good one Friends that have gone on vaping has not stopped for 2 years now.