The other side: Health Care Reform

[yvilla]

I'm posting this email here, to counter the other thread:

Dear Friend,

This is probably one of the longest emails I’ve ever sent, but it could be the most important.

Across the country we are seeing vigorous debate about health insurance reform. Unfortunately, some of the old tactics we know so well are back — even the viral emails that fly unchecked and under the radar, spreading all sorts of lies and distortions.

As President Obama said at the town hall in New Hampshire, “where we do disagree, let's disagree over things that are real, not these wild misrepresentations that bear no resemblance to anything that's actually been proposed.”

So let’s start a chain email of our own. At the end of my email, you’ll find a lot of information about health insurance reform, distilled into 8 ways reform provides security and stability to those with or without coverage, 8 common myths about reform and 8 reasons we need health insurance reform now.

Right now, someone you know probably has a question about reform that could be answered by what’s below. So what are you waiting for? Forward this email.

Thanks,
David

David Axelrod
Senior Adviser to the President

P.S. We launched www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck this week to knock down the rumors and lies that are floating around the internet. You can find the information below, and much more, there. For example, we've just added a video of Nancy-Ann DeParle from our Health Reform Office tackling a viral email head on. Check it out:



8 ways reform provides security and stability to those with or without coverage

1. Ends Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.
2. Ends Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays: Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.
3. Ends Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care: Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.
4. Ends Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill: Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.
5. Ends Gender Discrimination: Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.
6. Ends Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage: Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.
7. Extends Coverage for Young Adults: Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.
8. Guarantees Insurance Renewal: Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won't be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.

Learn more and get details: http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/health-insurance-consumer-protections/

8 common myths about health insurance reform

1. Reform will stop "rationing" - not increase it: It’s a myth that reform will mean a "government takeover" of health care or lead to "rationing." To the contrary, reform will forbid many forms of rationing that are currently being used by insurance companies.
2. We can’t afford reform: It's the status quo we can't afford. It’s a myth that reform will bust the budget. To the contrary, the President has identified ways to pay for the vast majority of the up-front costs by cutting waste, fraud, and abuse within existing government health programs; ending big subsidies to insurance companies; and increasing efficiency with such steps as coordinating care and streamlining paperwork. In the long term, reform can help bring down costs that will otherwise lead to a fiscal crisis.
3. Reform would encourage "euthanasia": It does not. It’s a malicious myth that reform would encourage or even require euthanasia for seniors. For seniors who want to consult with their family and physicians about end-of life decisions, reform will help to cover these voluntary, private consultations for those who want help with these personal and difficult family decisions.
4. Vets' health care is safe and sound: It’s a myth that health insurance reform will affect veterans' access to the care they get now. To the contrary, the President's budget significantly expands coverage under the VA, extending care to 500,000 more veterans who were previously excluded. The VA Healthcare system will continue to be available for all eligible veterans.
5. Reform will benefit small business - not burden it: It’s a myth that health insurance reform will hurt small businesses. To the contrary, reform will ease the burdens on small businesses, provide tax credits to help them pay for employee coverage and help level the playing field with big firms who pay much less to cover their employees on average.
6. Your Medicare is safe, and stronger with reform: It’s myth that Health Insurance Reform would be financed by cutting Medicare benefits. To the contrary, reform will improve the long-term financial health of Medicare, ensure better coordination, eliminate waste and unnecessary subsidies to insurance companies, and help to close the Medicare "doughnut" hole to make prescription drugs more affordable for seniors.
7. You can keep your own insurance: It’s myth that reform will force you out of your current insurance plan or force you to change doctors. To the contrary, reform will expand your choices, not eliminate them.
8. No, government will not do anything with your bank account: It is an absurd myth that government will be in charge of your bank accounts. Health insurance reform will simplify administration, making it easier and more convenient for you to pay bills in a method that you choose. Just like paying a phone bill or a utility bill, you can pay by traditional check, or by a direct electronic payment. And forms will be standardized so they will be easier to understand. The choice is up to you – and the same rules of privacy will apply as they do for all other electronic payments that people make.

Learn more and get details:
http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck
http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck/faq

8 Reasons We Need Health Insurance Reform Now

1. Coverage Denied to Millions: A recent national survey estimated that 12.6 million non-elderly adults – 36 percent of those who tried to purchase health insurance directly from an insurance company in the individual insurance market – were in fact discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition in the previous three years or dropped from coverage when they became seriously ill. Learn more: Coverage Denied: How the Current Health Insurance System Leaves Millions Behind
2. Less Care for More Costs: With each passing year, Americans are paying more for health care coverage. Employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have nearly doubled since 2000, a rate three times faster than wages. In 2008, the average premium for a family plan purchased through an employer was $12,680, nearly the annual earnings of a full-time minimum wage job. Americans pay more than ever for health insurance, but get less coverage. Learn more: Hidden Costs of Health Care Report
3. Roadblocks to Care for Women: Women’s reproductive health requires more regular contact with health care providers, including yearly pap smears, mammograms, and obstetric care. Women are also more likely to report fair or poor health than men (9.5% versus 9.0%). While rates of chronic conditions such as diabetes and high blood pressure are similar to men, women are twice as likely to suffer from headaches and are more likely to experience joint, back or neck pain. These chronic conditions often require regular and frequent treatment and follow-up care. Learn more: Roadblocks to Health Care
4. Hard Times in the Heartland: Throughout rural America, there are nearly 50 million people who face challenges in accessing health care. The past several decades have consistently shown higher rates of poverty, mortality, uninsurance, and limited access to a primary health care provider in rural areas. With the recent economic downturn, there is potential for an increase in many of the health disparities and access concerns that are already elevated in rural communities. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/hardtimes
5. Small Businesses Struggle to Provide Health Coverage: Nearly one-third of the uninsured – 13 million people – are employees of firms with less than 100 workers. From 2000 to 2007, the proportion of non-elderly Americans covered by employer-based health insurance fell from 66% to 61%. Much of this decline stems from small business. The percentage of small businesses offering coverage dropped from 68% to 59%, while large firms held stable at 99%. About a third of such workers in firms with fewer than 50 employees obtain insurance through a spouse. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/helpbottomline
6. The Tragedies are Personal: Half of all personal bankruptcies are at least partly the result of medical expenses. The typical elderly couple may have to save nearly $300,000 to pay for health costs not covered by Medicare alone. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/inaction
7. Diminishing Access to Care: From 2000 to 2007, the proportion of non-elderly Americans covered by employer-based health insurance fell from 66% to 61%. An estimated 87 million people - one in every three Americans under the age of 65 - were uninsured at some point in 2007 and 2008. More than 80% of the uninsured are in working families. Learn more: Diminishing Access to Care
8. The Trends are Troubling: Without reform, health care costs will continue to skyrocket unabated, putting unbearable strain on families, businesses, and state and federal government budgets. Perhaps the most visible sign of the need for health care reform is the 46 million Americans currently without health insurance - projections suggest that this number will rise to about 72 million in 2040 in the absence of reform. Learn more: http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/assets/documents/CEA_Health_Care_Report.pdf

 

[emus]

I have spent some time in England and just hope it is better than their plan.
The poor have poor insurance and the rich have private insurance.
If it is deficit neutral and will provide cheaper better insurance then go for it.
Why would people want to keep their existing plan if the govt plan is cheaper?
Myself, I don't have time to read the bill so I can't give an informed opinion.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

#2 of the 8 common myths really hits home for me.

"We can’t afford reform: It's the status quo we can't afford. It’s a myth that reform will bust the budget. To the contrary, the President has identified ways to pay for the vast majority of the up-front costs by cutting waste, fraud, and abuse within existing government health programs; ending big subsidies to insurance companies; and increasing efficiency with such steps as coordinating care and streamlining paperwork. In the long term, reform can help bring down costs that will otherwise lead to a fiscal crisis."

Did you know that a C-section (birth by cesarean) is billed to insurance companies (at most hospitals) at $18950? That's for a 3 day stay for both baby and mommy and use of the hospital surgery room. That does not include the doctors, the anesthesiologist or anything else.

Did you know that the exact same procedure is $6800 if you pay up front in full and don't go through your insurance carrier?

This, to me, almost constitutes fraud on the part of the hospital towards the insurance carrier. It's no wonder insurance is so expensive and most private policies DO NOT include maternity.

Great post yvilla. Thank you for sharing these details.

 

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

You're going to get your "Reality check" straight from the white house? What do you expect to get? Of course white house propaganda is going to support this socialist bill.

We don't need the government controlling ANYTHING. The government was set up simply to protect us and to insure adherance to the constitution. It was designed to be small by our forefathers to prevent tyranny. Now the federal government has already grown far too large and with bills like HR 3200 is only going to grow even larger...

We don't need any more of these socialist bills. THINK about THIS. The STIMULUS bill was supposed to help the American people in this time of economic downturn. Enough money was spent in that bill to pay off the consumer debt of every citizen in this country (Mortgages, credit cards, etc) TWICE!!

Do you see that money? Do I see that money? NO! What do we get? We get rising unemployment, rising costs, and a diving economy? Sorry folks, that money went to international banking elites, AIG & Goldman Sachs. We've been had!!! Looks like they fooled us again. When will we ever learn???

Now they're trying to get us again with this bill. WAKE UP people. Unplug from the matrix and stop believing what these people say...

I downloaded the bill and just picked out a few parts that I think are problematic... and these just scratch the surface.

Don't read the government propaganda. READ THE BILL!

. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS:

‘(ii) EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN READMISSIONS.—For purposes of clause (i), with respect to a hospital, excess readmissions shall not include readmissions for an applicable condition for which there are fewer than a minimum number (as determined by the Secretary) of discharges for such applicable condition for the applicable period and such hospital.

and, under “Definitions”:

‘‘(A) APPLICABLE CONDITION.—The term ‘applicable condition’ means, subject to subparagraph (B), a condition or procedure selected by the Secretary . . .

and:

‘‘(E) READMISSION.—The term ‘readmission’ means, in the case of an individual who is discharged from an applicable hospital, the admission of the individual to the same or another applicable hospital within a time period specified by the Secretary from the date of such discharge.

and:

‘‘(6) LIMITATIONS ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review under section 1869, section 1878, or otherwise of— . . .
‘‘(C) the measures of readmissions . . .

(SOUNDS LIKE A FORM OF RATIONING TO ME)
__________________________________________________
(2) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—
4 (A) ANNUAL LIMITATION.—The cost-shar
ing incurred under the essential benefits pack
age with respect to an individual (or family) for
a year does not exceed the applicable level spec
ified in subparagraph (B).
(B) APPLICABLE LEVEL.—The applicable
level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is
$5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a
family. Such levels shall be increased (rounded
to the nearest $100) for each subsequent year
by the annual percentage increase in the Con15
sumer Price Index (United States city average)
applicable to such year.
_________________________________________________________________

(B) EMPLOYMENT TAXES ON EMPLOYERS
NOT PROVIDING ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE.—The
amounts received in the Treasury under section
3111(c) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986
(relating to employers electing to not provide
health benefits).

(GREAT - SO THE GOV WILL BE THERE TO TELL US WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE AND WHAT ISN'T)
_______________________________________________________________

‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in
come for the taxable year, over
‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in
section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
________________________________________________________________
‘‘(ii) COMPONENTS AND ELEMENTS
OF WORK.—The process described in
clause (i) may include validation of work
elements (such as time, mental effort and
professional judgment, technical skill and
physical effort, and stress due to risk) in
volved with furnishing a service and may
include validation of the pre, post, and
intra-service components of work.

(GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT HAVE THIS KIND OF SAY IN OUR MEDICAL INSTITUTIONS!
___________________________________________________________________
‘‘(aa) The term ‘nurse home visitation services’
means home visits by trained nurses to families with a
first-time pregnant woman, or a child (under 2 years of
age), who is eligible for medical assistance under this title,
but only, to the extent determined by the Secretary based
upon evidence, that such services are effective in one or
more of the following:
‘‘(1) Improving maternal or child health and
pregnancy outcomes or increasing birth intervals be
tween pregnancies.
‘‘(2) Reducing the incidence of child abuse, ne
glect, and injury, improving family stability (includ
ing reduction in the incidence of intimate partner vi
olence), or reducing maternal and child involvement
in the criminal justice system.
‘‘(3) Increasing economic self-sufficiency, em
ployment advancement, school-readiness, and edu
cational achievement, or reducing dependence on
public assistance.’’.

(WHAT? SOUNDS LIKE AN ORWELL NOVEL)
_______________________________________________________________________
‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in
clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining
treatment or a similar order.

(NICE- A GOVERNMENT "ORDER" REGARDING HOW THE END OF YOUR LIFE IS GOING TO BE DEALT WITH.)
___________________________________________________________________________
‘‘(C) ACCESS OF GAO TO INFORMATION.—
The Comptroller General shall have unrestricted
access to all deliberations, records, and non
proprietary data of the Center and Commission
under subsection (b), immediately upon request.
______________________________________________________

 

[DaMulta]

I have spent some time in England and just hope it is better than their plan.
The poor have poor insurance and the rich have private insurance.
If it is deficit neutral and will provide cheaper better insurance then go for it.
Why would people want to keep their existing plan if the govt plan is cheaper?
Myself, I don't have time to read the bill so I can't give an informed opinion.

At least they have something.

 

[emus]

True.

I wonder how many people have a good enough handle on the health care plan to reliably predict the outcome?

 

[Ryle]

I suspect that if this bill passes that ultimately all health care will be done in a similar fashion to how existing government health care is dealt with.

For example. Being of Native American decent my health care is covered by the "Indian clinics" and hospitals.

Upside = it's free to me

downsides =

Birth control consists of only 1 type of pill, if you have a reaction to it you're SOL OR free condoms

When giving birth medications are given only when absolutely necessary and pain killers (or that thing they stick in your spine.. I can't remember the name) are only given if the pain starts causing you physical risk ( like heart issues) < my 3 siblings and myself were all born in different Indian hospitals and were all natural birth, not by the mother's choices

Dental.. if you have a cavity they just want to pull your tooth.. if you fight them long enough you can convince them to fill it if it's a simple filling, but they don't give you enough Novocaine to do more than dull the pain, it still feels like someone's stuck a drill to your jaw bone directly. And if it's bad enough to need a root cannal.. they pull the tooth, no exceptions.

It takes an average 3 months to score an appointment for ANYTHING or you can sit in the ER for between 5-12 hours or more (average wait time is 8 at the hospital nearest me) I tried for 5 months to get into see the doctor "the right way" for lumps that I found during a monthly self exam that were getting bigger.. finally had to take a day off work and sit in the ER for 6 hours just for them to see me. Only to be told that I was "a child" and didn't know anything about my own body, humiliated by multiple doctors over the course of about 2 hours before a PA took notice and actually took care of me.

Pain is outright ignored there, pain medications for anything are only given if "medically necessary" .. simply hurting isn't a good reason.

"Private" exams .. you know.. like your lady parts.. are supervised by no less than 3 people.. I've had as many as 5 people in on an exam regardless of my protests.

If you cry for any reason all resemblence of pretend kindness goes straight out the window.


This isn't just the standards at the local indian clinic here in phoenix but to every one that myself or any of my family have been to across the country.

I know my "quality of care" is crap. I don't go to the doctor that often but if this bill goes through it could become this way for everyone & that wouldn't be right

 

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

I suspect that if this bill passes that ultimately all health care will be done in a similar fashion to how existing government health care is dealt with.

For example. Being of Native American decent my health care is covered by the "Indian clinics" and hospitals.

Upside = it's free to me

downsides =

Birth control consists of only 1 type of pill, if you have a reaction to it you're SOL OR free condoms

When giving birth medications are given only when absolutely necessary and pain killers (or that thing they stick in your spine.. I can't remember the name) are only given if the pain starts causing you physical risk ( like heart issues) < my 3 siblings and myself were all born in different Indian hospitals and were all natural birth, not by the mother's choices

Dental.. if you have a cavity they just want to pull your tooth.. if you fight them long enough you can convince them to fill it if it's a simple filling, but they don't give you enough Novocaine to do more than dull the pain, it still feels like someone's stuck a drill to your jaw bone directly. And if it's bad enough to need a root cannal.. they pull the tooth, no exceptions.

It takes an average 3 months to score an appointment for ANYTHING or you can sit in the ER for between 5-12 hours or more (average wait time is 8 at the hospital nearest me) I tried for 5 months to get into see the doctor "the right way" for lumps that I found during a monthly self exam that were getting bigger.. finally had to take a day off work and sit in the ER for 6 hours just for them to see me. Only to be told that I was "a child" and didn't know anything about my own body, humiliated by multiple doctors over the course of about 2 hours before a PA took notice and actually took care of me.

Pain is outright ignored there, pain medications for anything are only given if "medically necessary" .. simply hurting isn't a good reason.

"Private" exams .. you know.. like your lady parts.. are supervised by no less than 3 people.. I've had as many as 5 people in on an exam regardless of my protests.

If you cry for any reason all resemblence of pretend kindness goes straight out the window.


This isn't just the standards at the local indian clinic here in phoenix but to every one that myself or any of my family have been to across the country.

I know my "quality of care" is crap. I don't go to the doctor that often but if this bill goes through it could become this way for everyone & that wouldn't be right

Thank you so much for sharing your story. Most people just don't understand that what this bill would result in is a NIGHTMARE (At least for those who are already insured and expect a certain quality and freedom in the health care they receive).

I just hope more people start to open their eyes.

Just because something sounds good doesn't mean it will end up being what you think. ie. Obama and "Change we can believe in" ---please...

 

[Ryle]

Thank you so much for sharing your story. Most people just don't understand that what this bill would result in is a NIGHTMARE (At least for those who are already insured and expect a certain quality and freedom in the health care they receive).

I just hope more people start to open their eyes.

Just because something sounds good doesn't mean it will end up being what you think. ie. Obama and "Change we can believe in" ---please...

I actually almost didn't post it.. a bit of personal info in there and what not but I figure people have the right to know what government paid for healthcare is like.

Anyone around here on state healthcare?

My mom was on Arizona's state healthcare when she lived here.. Did you know that an adult's dental coverage consists of ONLY extractions.. no cleaning, no checkups, no fillings.. only extractions.. because of that she had to have all of her teeth pulled at the ripe old age of 36 and then it took her 2YEARS to get dentures. 2 years without teeth AT ALL. By the time she managed to get them to pay for her teeth (she still had to come up with almost a grand out of pocket) her jaw open range was so low that the dentist had a very hard time getting dentures to fit in her mouth and even then they were so big she was constantly constantly complaining of jaw pain for 3 weeks until her jaw adjsuted to it and it took her 3 months to be able to get her teeth to seperate by more than an inch. It was hell for her and I hated to watch her go through it, its 1 of the reasons I started working full time as a kid while going to school.. to help pay for her teeth.

Government health care is not pretty and I'd bet an entire year's pay that if this bill passes, even if it isn't tha way initially, within 5 years of the bill passing ALL healthcare would be like that. From what I've heard from people I know in the UK, their healtcare system is very similar over there.

I say.. "better the devil you know..."

 

[tannerk]

You're going to get your "Reality check" straight from the white house? What do you expect to get? Of course white house propaganda is going to support this socialist bill.

Amen!

The other thread is full of FACTS for some... Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[tannerk]

The biggest question mark comes from who wrote Section 1233 of the House health care overhaul bill. The original language was written by assisted suicide supporter Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) alongside a group that once was called the Hemlock Society – the nation’s biggest advocates of euthanasia and assisted suicide. The Hemlock Society helped draft Oregon’s assisted suicide law – legislation that has led some afflicted people in Oregon getting letters “consulting” them that, while the state run plan would not pay for their cancer treatments, the state would be happy to pay for assisted suicide if they choose that option.

Additionally, Section 1401 establishes the Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research. A similar center was established in the economic stimulus bill passed in February. The report issued by the House Appropriations Committee at that time explained what they hoped to accomplish with this “research.”:

“By knowing what works best and presenting this information more broadly to patients and healthcare professionals, those items, procedures and interventions that are most effective to prevent, control and treat health conditions will be utilized¸ while those that are found to be less effective and in some cases, more expensive, will no longer be prescribed. (Emphasis added).”​

Five times in various committees there were attempts to ensure that “comparative effectiveness research” is not used for rationing purposes. Each time the Democrats on the committees voted the amendments down.

Additionally, the Obama plan relies heavily on cuts to Medicare to pay for the new benefits. Despite these cuts he fails to address the solvency issue of Medicare, inevitably leading to reduction of benefits to participants.

Couple these with public comments of supporters of the leading bills in Congress, like President Obama and Senator Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.), that the federal government would be making decisions that usually are left up to patients and doctors the onus should be on supporters of the bill to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their legislation would not lead to rationing of care.

Do you really want Government bureaucrats to decide?

Just remember, this could be you...


YouTube - Terminal cancer patient urges No on I1000​

 

[Duckies]

yvilla, I am on this dist list as well. I thought they did a great job dispelling the net rumors. Thanks for posting it.

For those who are against the public option, just go buy your own contract! They can't deny you for preexisting or cancel you for getting sick based anymore if this passes as currently stated. Just go buy a private plan and be done with it.

 

[tannerk]

For those who think there will be a private option (overtime) - you wrong.

 

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

Additionally, Section 1401 establishes the Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research. A similar center was established in the economic stimulus bill passed in February. The report issued by the House Appropriations Committee at that time explained what they hoped to accomplish with this “research.”:

“By knowing what works best and presenting this information more broadly to patients and healthcare professionals, those items, procedures and interventions that are most effective to prevent, control and treat health conditions will be utilized¸ while those that are found to be less effective and in some cases, more expensive, will no longer be prescribed. (Emphasis added).”​

Do you really want Government bureaucrats to decide?

Just remember, this could be you...


​

Great post tannerk. Isn't that enough to send chills up anyones spine??? Why can't more people see through this?

 

[Duckies]

For those who think there will be a private option (overtime) - you wrong.

Then the For-Profits (with their multi-million dollar executive salaries/bonuses) best get busy and figure out how to compete.

 

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

Then the For-Profits (with their multi-million dollar executive salaries/bonuses) best get busy and figure out how to compete.

I hear you... but you don't know how good what you have is until it is gone.

The grass is always greener on the other side...

True-- the government we have and the corporate interests surrounding it are CORRUPT... but this bill will only add to that corruption... What we need is a complete makeover of this country....

 

[Duckies]

I hear you... but you don't know how good what you have is until it is gone.

The grass is always greener on the other side...

True-- the government we have and the corporate interests surrounding it are CORRUPT... but this bill will only add to that corruption... What we need is a complete makeover of this country....

The corruption is the key to this all. I said in the other thread that it bothers me greatly that the Insurance and Big Pharma have seats at the table but groups like PNHC.org (Physicians for National Healthcare), CNA (California Nursing Assn) and other such advocacy groups do not.

Greed rules the day. :/

I have no illusions about greener pastures. I just want a system (however imperfect) where (for example) unemployed people about to run out of their COBRA coverage aren't facing foreclosure/bankruptcy because they have (example) MS and can't afford the $2k/month injections and couldn't buy insurance even if they could afford it because of preexisting conditions. All while said insurance execs are pocketing million dollar bonuses for protecting their shareholders from the cost.

There simply HAS to be a more humane way.

 

[Mac]

I bet obama is smoking a newport right now and laughing at all of you.

 

[Surf Monkey]

The original language was written by assisted suicide supporter Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) alongside a group that once was called the Hemlock Society – the nation’s biggest advocates of euthanasia and assisted suicide.

LOL

Clearly you don't know much about Blumenauer. He in no way supports euthanasia. He does support assisted suicide, which is fine given the fact that it's the law here in Oregon. He's been a major advocate for the elderly his entire career, going as far back as when he was a city councilman.

As far as the bill goes, Blumenauer's original language was very clear. All it said was that if you were going to talk to your doctor about getting a living will or about any other "end of life issues" (something millions of Americans do every year) that appointment would be covered by your health insurance. Nothing more, nothing less. Even the House bill is clear about it. All this nonsense about how the government is going to decide that it's time to force your grandmother to OD on morphine because she's costing the tax payers too much money is just scare propaganda.

 

[Surf Monkey]

For those who think there will be a private option (overtime) - you wrong.

That's a baseless assertion. For one thing, we don't even know if there's going to be a public option. For another, all the big western nations that have nationalized health care also have private health insurance. It didn't go away in Canada, Germany, Japan, France, England and the others, why would it here?