The real reason behind public smoking bans (PBS Newshour)

[cdsaint66]

So,
This isn't exactly about vaping, but I think it really is. It is all bout where the vaping opposition is going to go, because they have been down this road before.
The Real Reason Behind Public Smoking Bans | PBS NewsHour

 

[cdsaint66]

My favorite pull quotes...

The third argument, and the most interesting argument to me, was that parents and families have the right to take their kids to the beach, or a park, without seeing anyone smoke. It's like bad behavior, just the way we want to protect our kids from hearing people curse, or get drunk; we don't want them to see smokers because maybe they'll emulate it.

followed by...

As I thought about it, it became very clear that what was involved wasn't that we were trying to protect non-smokers from sidestream smoke on parks and beaches. We weren't really concerned about birds and fish. There wasn't really evidence that we were going to protect kids by disallowing smoking in parks and beaches.

 

[Rickajho]

I read the whole article and I agree with the point being made that the arguments for the bans are specious at best and only have an underlying motive of "You're stupid. We're only trying to save you from yourself!" The more self-certified public health "officials" keep this crap up, and the more their own dishonesty and "stupid" shines through, the less are the reasons we have to trust them about anything.

The country has got to stop clenching it's collective Puritanical .... cheeks together before we all go insane. How did that whole Prohibition era thing exactly work out? There was a great example of the "Just say no!" crowd in action that turned into a national embarrassment on so many levels. The "Just say no!" crowd may have learned to be more subtle, but their public health positions are still just as stupid as ever. In this way, I'm betting the FDA can simply be embarrassed into shutting up about e-cigs, if only we make them look stupid enough and point out the glaring holes in their positions. Fortunately for us, that is going to take very little effort.

 

[jtpjc]

Nothing to do this weekend? Read the comments section. Hours of fun for the whole family!

 

[pamdis]

One of the commentors linked to this article from the Tobacco Control journal from 2000. Another insightful read all on it's own.

Banning smoking outdoors is seldom ethically justifiable -- CHAPMAN 9 (1): 95 -- Tobacco Control

 

[Petrodus]

The country has got to stop clenching it's collective Puritanical .... cheeks together
before we all go insane.

Great on-liner !!

 

[sbdivemaster]

So that as part of a broader campaign to denormalize -- to take something that was normal, social behavior, and to turn it into something a little weird, a little off -- (it) does in fact have an impact...

Do these people understand adolescent behavior?!? When something is "a little weird, a little off", that's a magnet for kids to try it. Anyone remember long hair in the 60's? Hippie clothing? And, gasp, the dreaded Rock & Roll (aka The Devil's) music? Feel free to add your own examples - history is full of them...

 

[DC2]

This isn't exactly about vaping, but I think it really is. It is all bout where the vaping opposition is going to go, because they have been down this road before.

That's not where the vaping opposition is going to go, it is where they are already going.

There are legislative attempts to include vaping in existing smoking bans popping up all over the country.
And many times they argue that part of the reason is they don't want vaping to threaten their decades-long "denormalization" campaign.

If this kind of thing concerns you then please join CASAA as they are the ones leading the charge to fight these legislative attempts...
Become a CASAA Member

And when I say "they" I really mean "us" because WE are CASAA.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Not like we weren't warned

 

[Vocalek]

One of the commentors linked to this article from the Tobacco Control journal from 2000. Another insightful read all on it's own.

Banning smoking outdoors is seldom ethically justifiable -- CHAPMAN 9 (1): 95 -- Tobacco Control

The real surprise about that article is the author. He's not shown any indication of supporting tobacco harm reduction.

But I did like this particular quote:

If any message is sent to the community by an outdoor smoking ban, it may well be one that says health policy makers do not care about evidence of harm, but are more concerned to impose standards cut loose from any evidence base and indifferent to a vital ethical principle of respect for autonomy.

 

[pamdis]

The real surprise about that article is the author. He's not shown any indication of supporting tobacco harm reduction.

Remember that this article was published in 2000 (I think). Someone may have 'corrected' his thinking since then.

I was just amazed that we're having the same debates with the same points being made for 13 years. (Probably longer, but I'm just referencing since this article was published)

 

[Petrodus]

One of the comments below the article

I worked in a restaurant many years ago- A woman ordered a hamburger WITHOUT KETCHUP because her husband was 'violently allergic.' But, she happily took it with tomatoes even after I mentioned it. I think he just didn't like ketchup. So many people with 'cigarette smoke allergies' seem this way to me- I've even seen some having a great time at a barbecue where smoke was everywhere. But, there's no reasoning with PC crap.

 

[Vocalek]

And you can quote him on that.

 

[cdsaint66]

That's not where the vaping opposition is going to go, it is where they are already going.

There are legislative attempts to include vaping in existing smoking bans popping up all over the country.
And many times they argue that part of the reason is they don't want vaping to threaten their decades-long "denormalization" campaign.

If this kind of thing concerns you then please join CASAA as they are the ones leading the charge to fight these legislative attempts...
Become a CASAA Member

And when I say "they" I really mean "us" because WE are CASAA.

DC2 I have to agree. I should have said that this is where they have gone. I guess I shouldn't post after my bedtime.

I am a bit heartened to see a few anti smoking activist types admitting that they have been pushing regulations based on scare tactics alone without any real evidence of harm. I, like many others here lived through the process as a smoker. Now that I'm a vaper (over 10 months without a smoke) I do try to look for things that can be used to combat the ANTZ this time, and looking back at how they took down smoking will give us knowledge of how they'll try to take down vaping. Being able to point out instances of lies told to regulate smoking should be useful in combating lies about vaping.

As far as CASAA goes, I have been woefully slow to join and donate. I will, today. I'm just so cheap it's hard.

 

[DC2]

As far as CASAA goes, I have been woefully slow to join and donate. I will, today. I'm just so cheap it's hard.

You don't have to donate in order to join.

Donations help (obviously) but joining is also important.
The more members CASAA has the more seriously they will be taken.

 

[Petrodus]

What is the current number of CASAA members ??

 

[cdsaint66]

What is the current number of CASAA members ??

Whatever it was during my last post + 1.

(or possibly more)

 

[Petrodus]

When the FDA unveils their deeming regulations ...
There's going to be a mad dash to join CASAA !!

 

[Vocalek]

What is the current number of CASAA members ??

I think we may have topped 6,200 with cdsaint66's addition. We were at 6198 at noon.

 

[RobinBanks]

Nothing to do this weekend? Read the comments section. Hours of fun for the whole family!

"The biggest differences?

1) Urinating is a natural act that all people perform.
2) Urine does not take weeks, months, or years to break down, like cigarette butts do. Although it can discolor foliage, particularly if large quantities of urine are deposited on the same spot, it generally is absorbed into the soil, where the chemicals return to the natural cycle, and will leave little to no trace after the next rain.

3) Urine does not start fires. In fact, it could even be used to extinguish fires started by inconsiderate and negligent smokers."

I'm done.