The SEARCH for the PERFECT E-CIG

[Kent C]

Taryn,

Here is your post that started it Ken, and I shall reply directly to to your post even though you have ignored the majority of my previous thread.

That's because you were 'explaining' things that I didn't say about you. And still haven't. I'm good with the agree to disagree part but I want to make perfectly clear where the disagreement is and where it isn't.

It is certainly no ruse or bait and switch, people can and have used the cartomizers as purely disposable.

You are right. When there's no switch, then what is promoted can't be considered 'bait' and I have absolutely no problem with that.

I like to save money so I refill, please refer to my previous post about the ease of refilling for me although you seem to disagree.

In earlier posts I have praised and thanked you for those methods and credit you when I mention them to others. I use in part, or in whole those tips and it has made my cartomizer experience much more simple - less fuss.

Why don't you mention at this point the fuss of finding the perfect carto filler cleaning primer fluid from 510 atomizers, cleaning the atomizers it's self between flavors, and the many tools needed for the 510?

Those are some things that many people choose to do. They aren't necessary. Many people don't clean atomizers and in fact I have advocated it on occasion. There are times when people either want to or find it necessary and I tell them the best way I know how. Those are very similar to what is necessary for refilling cartomizers - without grabbing the exact statement, I'm pretty sure I said 'equal to or more' and if one has already made a cart mod for the 510 and doesn't clean attys then that is the case.

I do not feel dishonest when giving people a choice on refilling or not.

When it is stated as a choice - I agree - And I didn't say you were dishonest, only that it is dishonest to promote to someone looking to buy, that it is no mess, no fuss, just screw it on and vape when comparing it to other models and then bring up the mess and fuss at a later point - I don't follow your posts enough to know whether or not you do that. So IF you took that personally, that's one you, not on me.

A person can choose to buy only factory filled carts for the 510 and dispose of them when they are dry also but it's a very little used option based upon what this forum has said.

I'd agree. But there are people that prefill carts for travel/driving and just pop off one cart and replace it with another with no mess - in much the same way people might prefill used cartomizers for travel.

The truth is 510's are considerably more fuss all considered even if you choose to refill your KR8 cartomizers.

Here I'll agree to disagree.

I'm quite certain that many people did indeed quit smoking by using the 510, I'm also quite certain that several people have found that a 510 did not meet their needs as it does not meet mine and have gone on to other mods or PV's.

Basically what I said so we agree.

By the way the posting you refer to when you say this is what people prefer was a poll that was taken in April of last year when the KR8 was much less known, it is in fact not even an option on that poll.

"Semi disposable (eg. Loong Totem/KR808D & clones)" That poll is still active and while it doesn't say when the last vote was cast, each time I post it I've noticed some changes.

I do believe that the 510 is many peoples first introduction to ecigs (if they have been to the forums and not purchased from the mall or other advertisments) but that does not mean that many have not found it lacking and kept looking for a better model.

Contrary to the thread title, there is not perfect ecig. But the fact that over 50% still use the 510 in mods is some indication of how popular it still is. If you take the first poll and add the mod factor in, the 510 is still the most popular model here and, despite what anyone may think of 'polls' they are a reflection of reality - they just don't provide an answer to 'why' that's the case, just that it is.

Plenty of people also use cartomizers on Mods so I'm not sure what is the point you are trying to make there.

Just that there isn't many mods that have the KR8 batt connection - there would be if there was such a demand. But adapters have made that not a problem. And I openly admit I enjoy cartomizers on my mods. V4L ones that is, and then only in certain flavors.

I love my KR8, I have tried the 510 and still prefer my KR8. This is my personal feeling and opinion.

I went out of my way, because of your accusation, to say how I have absolutely no problem with this and never did. Something that you still haven't addressed - that something I wrote was interpretted that I didn't want you to be happy - or that I wanted to make you unhappy. I resent that you included that in your reply and was surprised since I thought we had some more friendly exchanges in eariler threads.

Although the juxtaposition of your 510 comments with the other comments may have made you think I was talking about you, I was not, so if that was it, I apologize for not making that clearer (and only that)but no part of that was to 'make you unhappy' or 'make you feel that you should be unhappy' or whatever it was that you felt.

I do not feel the need to jump in threads about "why I love my 510" and tell them why they are wrong. Happy vaping to them, I'm glad they found what works for them! That is what leads me to the conclusion that you do not seem to understand that I am satisfied with my choice.

Again, what is it that I wrote that makes you think that I think you're not satisfied with your choice? If I would have said something like 'Taryn simply doesn't know what she's missing or that she's just fooling herself' THEN I would understand such a comment but I have no idea to what you are referring to when you make those comments and earlier accusations. I've Always thought that you had the ecig that you wanted and really really like it.

Ken you have told me that I and other KR8 users pull ruses, use bait and switch tactics and that we look dishonest. You really feel I'm the one who should apologize?

Again, I had not said that you do that. But there are some that do that and I'm not going to apologize to those that do. If you consider yourself one of those (even though I don't think you are), then I don't know what to say.

It is late and I am tired, I do not wish to fight with you Ken but perhaps we need to just agree to disagree and leave it alone.

I'm wide awake and don't wish to fight.

By the way I never said the 510 consistently gets better vapor I said he managed to get better vapor most of the time,

That's right, the 'consistently' better vapor was my adverbial addition to what you said. If I'd quote you (or anyone) it would be in ("...") style quotes. It's more of a function of the resistance of the atty - given the same juice & batt, the 510 will get better vapor consistently.

 

[Taryn]

Ken,

We've certainly gotten along great before and I believe that we still can, even with disagreements. And I do apologize for my statement about you not understanding why I am happy with my choice as it seems now that wasn't your intention.

Please understand when blanket statements are made about KR8 users or V4L fan clubs it does include me and many other fine people and that is why I take offense. Just like you cannot fairly make blanket statements about PV users in general because a handful choose to have the attitude of "Take that smoking ban, I shall blow vapor in your face!". That is the nature of statements like that it is bound to offend someone.

I'm still not feeling that poll is a good source of information, although in looking again today I was incorrect and finally saw where the KR8 is listed. No open ended poll can be accurate, it doesn't allow for changes that have taken place within the industry or even allow people to change their vote if they change PV's. I'd be interested in seeing what a new poll would say, though I still believe the 510 will reign as best seller, but I think the KR8 will move considerably closer in the popularity scale.

I think we can disagree and even offend each other and still remain friends. It's how we handle it that makes the difference. It can even leave us with a new understanding and appreciation for each other!

 

[Kent C]

Taryn

Ken,

It's Kent, but that's ok. Not the first time. ;-)

We've certainly gotten along great before and I believe that we still can, even with disagreements. And I do apologize for my statement about you not understanding why I am happy with my choice as it seems now that wasn't your intention.

Thanks. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and I would like to recover the good times before this.

Please understand when blanket statements are made about KR8 users or V4L fan clubs it does include me and many other fine people and that is why I take offense. Just like you cannot fairly make blanket statements about PV users in general because a handful choose to have the attitude of "Take that smoking ban, I shall blow vapor in your face!". That is the nature of statements like that it is bound to offend someone.

I fully understand the consequences of generalities and while I won't say 'always', I almost always say 'some people' or 'some will say that you should clean your attys', etc. rather than a more absolute depiction. And in this case, it is true that 'some' do that. Some 510 users make the similar statements, and I don't take offense, if they're called out on it, as long as I didn't make the statement.

I'm still not feeling that poll is a good source of information, although in looking again today I was incorrect and finally saw where the KR8 is listed. No open ended poll can be accurate, it doesn't allow for changes that have taken place within the industry or even allow people to change their vote if they change PV's. I'd be interested in seeing what a new poll would say, though I still believe the 510 will reign as best seller, but I think the KR8 will move considerably closer in the popularity scale.

You're right in that it doesn't allow for changes but it still allows for new entries. And there's no doubt that the KR8 is moving up in popularity. Yet I think the poll has some utility when someone asks 'what is the most popular ecig' or the like - even though I might not think that's the best way to measure something. I tend to answer a person's question rather than assume that he means something else or that other info would be 'better' for him. I answer the question as well as I can and then if there's a follow up question that might be more on point, I'll answer that too. In fact, it's one of the things that I liked about your responses - you address the person themselves not some abstract anonymity. I've likely read more of your posts looking for cartos tips than you have of mine on 510's But I think you'd find that I take a similar approach.

I think we can disagree and even offend each other and still remain friends. It's how we handle it that makes the difference. It can even leave us with a new understanding and appreciation for each other!

I would not remain friends long with someone who intentionally offended me - unintentional - no problem. I would remain friends with someone who disagrees though.

As long as you understand that it was no part of my intent to either say that you made a wrong decision for you - your little bio certainly adds to the reality that you didn't, but I never thought that in the first place. And that you don't think I was intent on making you unhappy, then we don't have a problem, other than a misunderstanding of intent and part of that was perhaps an inartful combining of a reference to you, with others' comments that were not to be reflected upon you. And while we've likely bored some to no end, I'm glad you spoke up now, that we remained civil enough to where we didn't 'write each other off', so that this could get cleared up.

Regards,
Kent C

 

[Drozd]

The truth is 510's are considerably more fuss all considered even if you choose to refill your KR8 cartomizers. thats all pure opinion and speculation...I do know that I put more work into my KR8 get a satisfactory vaping experience


By the way the posting you refer to when you say this is what people prefer was a poll that was taken in April of last year when the KR8 was much less known, it is in fact not even an option on that poll.
Semi disposable (eg. Loong Totem/KR808D & clones)

85 7.90%
that does say KR808D & clones right there doesn't it? so yeah it's on the poll...
I love my KR8, I have tried the 510 and still prefer my KR8. This is my personal feeling and opinion. I do not feel the need to jump in threads about "why I love my 510" and tell them why they are wrong. Happy vaping to them, I'm glad they found what works for them! That is what leads me to the conclusion that you do not seem to understand that I am satisfied with my choice.

That's the whole point though you found what works for you... perhaps the real problem is the title of the thread ...the OP insinuates that the KR8 is the "perfect" PV where in reality perfection is subjective to each user...what might be perfect for you or the OP might not be perfect to Kent or myself...or some may say that a m4xx is perfect for them, or a 901...so anyone declaring anything as "perfect" well it's just presumtious...to each their own as long as it gets the job done at the end of the day..

 

[uzzaperez]

Thanks for the new info Uzza. Had another question for you, about how long would you estimate the life spans of your cartomizers to be?

I have a few cartos at a time with different flavors that I leave open for direct dripping and since they are always wet I've gotten weeks of daily use out of a single cartomizer - this includes occasionally draining out old juice and starting again with the same carto.

I usually actually end up getting a burnt taste instead of having an atty die out. When that happens I just toss it. At about $2/cartomizer this works for me, I feel better about it than when a $10 510, 901, or 801 atty dies on me.

As far as the life of a wet cart, I'd say if I am not direct dripping I am at three 24mg cartos per day, or five 16mg cartos per day. But I only vape what I would guess is about 2/3 or 3/4 of the carto because I am pretty cautions not to vape them dry. If I am refilling more than 12 or 14 drops I know I vaped it too dry. If I think a carto is getting old I actually go ahead and vape her on the road till I get the burn taste and then toss it.

All I can say is a $10 pack of five cartos definitely lasts me longer than any $10 single atty, but this is because I refill.

Again, concerning the life of the juice in a full cart - they hold about 18 drops and you can probably vape about 14 drops before needing to refill. At high voltage you can vape about 6 or 8 drops in a single session, at low voltage of course the juice lasts longer.

 

[uzzaperez]

Semi disposable (eg. Loong Totem/KR808D & clones) 85 7.90%
that does say KR808D & clones right there doesn't it? so yeah it's on the poll...

I'd like to see the poll list the KR and not group it. Quickly voting in a poll like that I might not even recognize "semi disposable" as a description of my carto of choice. I'd be curious to see how it fairs, obviously I am a KR fan but I love opinions, belly buttons, 510s, and a-holes. I'd bet KR would get more votes alone than it did in the "semi disposable clones" category grouped with other attys. But I bet it still wouldn't get as many votes as the 510.

 

[callofthevapor]

What a thread, wow

So far I only own the Kr8 maybe some day I'll try the 510. One thing I've noticed in this kind of thread is 510 owners point out if you refill the Kr8 its more time consuming and harder to learn to do then the 510. That might be true. I personally don't agree but I don't have to do any of that when I want to vapor. When I want to vapor there's no muss no fuss. Recently I have drip with some carts to get some extra vapor. But I don't have too.

 

[uzzaperez]

Thanks for the new info Uzza. Had another question for you, about how long would you estimate the life spans of your cartomizers to be?

BTW Ryum, someone hit me with this in another thread after I answered your PM via a public post:

Quoted from ECF Forum Rules, item #8:

8. Posting the content of PMs or personal emails on the forum is not allowed. All PMs and emails are deemed to be confidential and cannot be made public except with the prior written consent of the author.

Sorry and hope you didn't mind. No disrespect intended.

 

[Taryn]

Drozd if you had read the above exchange you would have seen where I did tell Kent (sorry about the name mix up earlier) that I had overlooked it in the poll the first time I saw it. And you would also see why I feel the poll is really not that useful anymore.

Anyone with a scrap of intellect can understand that the OP is stating an opinion and I do not see this to be a problem this is a forum where people are expected to share opinions and experiences.

And my opinion of the 510's being more fuss is not speculation, it is first hand experience.

 

[Ryum]

I said in that other thread it was fine, but I guess it got deleted before a mod saw my post.

Edit: nm I thought that post was in the new members section, not general

 

[Drozd]

Drozd if you had read the above exchange you would have seen where I did tell Kent (sorry about the name mix up earlier) that I had overlooked it in the poll the first time I saw it. And you would also see why I feel the poll is really not that useful anymore.
no problem my interrnet has been acting funky as to when things get posted I wrote it before there was a response it posted after...else I'd have not mentioned it..
Anyone with a scrap of intellect can understand that the OP is stating an opinion and I do not see this to be a problem this is a forum where people are expected to share opinions and experiences.

And my opinion of the 510's being more fuss is not speculation, it is first hand experience.

ok as long as it's understood that's your opinion...my first hand experience is however the exact opposite..I find the KR8 more fuss abd work to get a satisfying vaping experience..granted some of that could be getting used to or finding flavors that don't have an underlying perfume taste to them, label covered carto vents, far too airy draw, buttons that don't fully engage or aren't reliably engaged..so yeah our experiences differ

 

[Taryn]

My post was nearly two hours before you posted, enough time for even the slowest internet to have updated the page.

 

[Drozd]

dunno...I posted it some time early yesterday morning...got a page could not be displayed and internet was out when I looked...just finished getting internet back up a bit ago...it may have been sporadic and actually posted sometime during the day...couldnt tell you..been out most of the day...kids soccer game and then out pushing presales of girl scout cookies

 

[Meltmanbob]

Hey guys sorry to interject again. I've been doing some research about vapor production and flavor on various set ups.

Uzzaperez - Why do you think the KR808 carts produce a better flavor for you than the 510 attys?

So far it seems like vapor production is some function of the voltage of the set up as in more voltage = more vapor.

Does anyone else have any personal experience with one set up producing a better flavor for them using the same juice and could you try to explain why you think it does?

Do the rebuilt atty's effect the flavor if the coil is rebuilt with larger gauge wire?

 

[uzzaperez]

Hey guys sorry to interject again. I've been doing some research about vapor production and flavor on various set ups.

Uzzaperez - Why do you think the KR808 carts produce a better flavor for you than the 510 attys?

So far it seems like vapor production is some function of the voltage of the set up as in more voltage = more vapor.

Does anyone else have any personal experience with one set up producing a better flavor for them using the same juice and could you try to explain why you think it does?

Do the rebuilt atty's effect the flavor if the coil is rebuilt with larger gauge wire?

Regarding flavor, you could say it is a matter of opinion but I believe even most 510 users would agree that the KR produces better flavor and the 510 produces more vapor at an equivalent voltage. For me, I like more vapor, but the KR produces fine vapor for me so I am not willing to take a flavor loss for the increased vapor. As for why it does? Beats me, I judge the flavor on my exhale and it just has fuller flavor on one atty than another.

As far as more voltage = more vapor, that is true up to a point...most people seem to prefer 5 volts to 3.7 volts, but most also seem to prefer 5 volts to 6 volts so more voltage doesn't always = better vape.

Keep in mind that the formula is Voltage + Atty + Juice = Everything. All three components will change your vapor production, flavor, and throat hit. Voltage is the easiest to pin down, most people end up using both 3.7 and 5 volts depending on what they need (mobility and convenience on a 3.7 volt batter, and being either plugged in with a PT or carrying a larger mod for 5 volts).

With the different atty models and juices out there, there are a ton of options for these factors. You will see more debates over the KR and 510 than most other atty types that are out there so far. Juice is another story...the options are endless, and I'm glad for that.

 

[Kent C]

Hey guys sorry to interject again. I've been doing some research about vapor production and flavor on various set ups.

Uzzaperez - Why do you think the KR808 carts produce a better flavor for you than the 510 attys?

So far it seems like vapor production is some function of the voltage of the set up as in more voltage = more vapor.

Does anyone else have any personal experience with one set up producing a better flavor for them using the same juice and could you try to explain why you think it does?

Do the rebuilt atty's effect the flavor if the coil is rebuilt with larger gauge wire?

"Better flavor" is a subjective factor. However, just like there are some foods that have better flavor when heated and some have better flavor when cool or cold, the same goes with flavors in ejuice.

The 510 is the warmest running atomizer - with all else constant. You'll find people who have had both the 510 and the 901 or 801. The ones that say that the 510 subdues flavor almost invariably like the lighter flavors - fruit, berry, vanilla, coconut and some of the lighter sweeter tobaccos, (not all of course) and they prefer the 901 and 801. The people that like the stronger flavors - tobaccos, flu cured, cigar, coffee, cappuccino prefer the 510 _because_ it enhances those flavors - myself included. I have a Decadent Vapours Habana Reserve flavor that I can barely taste on the 801 and 901 but it is robust with the 510. And Habana R. is not as flavorful in a blank cartomizer. The Black Currant, on the other hand, is subdued by the extra heat and comes alive with the 801 Janty Stick and is also good in a blank cartomizer. These '510 subdues flavors and x atty enhances flavor' generalizations about flavors and attys should be taken with a grain of salt - or you should dig a bit deeper on 'what flavors' and in some cases 'what vendor's flavors' and also whether the person has ever tried a 510, 801, 901, cartomizer, 401, etc. ;-)

There is a correlation between flavor and vapor in cases where the heat doesn't subdue the flavor but where it doesn't - the more vapor the more intense the flavor. Little or no vapor in most cases is going to result in little or no flavor.

 

[Meltmanbob]

Well I messaged Uzzaperez but I probably should have just posted so if he wants to post anything from my PM thats fine.

So I have to say the shipping from ecigexpress was FAST! They squared away my order by Friday and I got it today Monday. They threw in a 5 pack of grape cartos, not sure if that is because they were out of the cheesecake flavoring and the 2 6ml bottles I ordered or not... They also sent me the PCC kit and a battery instead of a PCC and 2 batteries, difference being I have 2 extra menthol cartos.

First impressions - I hooked up one of the batteries to a menthol carto and tried to take a slow drag compared to an analog which lasted for about 5 seconds until the manual battery cut off. That's getting annoying and I was hoping the batteries had the longer cut off time that I had read about the newer ones having. Anyway I've tried everything except the grape so far and the RY4 and cappuccino taste kind of similar, neither of which I'm too happy with.

Vapor - All of these are based on my idea of a slow drag until the battery cuts off. The menthol seems to give about = 1 second drag on an analog. The RY4 and cappuccino seem to be between 1/2 and 3/4 of the menthol. The menthol also seems to be the only one that has an visible vapor when exhaled where as the other 2 show nothing like I ghosted the hit.

Battery - 3 air hole design... not sure if that's what those are for but there are 3 small pin holes close to the threads where it screws to the cartos.

Cartos - 4 notches around the metal ring that meets the battery. I think those are supposed to match up with the holes in the battery threaded connector but 4 notches and 3 holes... only one matches.

Flavor - I read Uzzaperez's thread on e-liquids and see he ranked Dekang at the bottom. I'm assuming that most people seem to think Dekang is not the greatest either so maybe I should reserve some final judgement until I get some better quality juices. So far though the menthol is like a spearmint which is not quite to my liking, I smoke Marlboro Smooths but the menthol seems to be more tolerable than the cappuccino or RY4. All of them seem to have a slight burnt after taste, or maybe a hint of some spice, I can't really figure it out yet but it's not pleasant at all.

Throat hit - It doesn't seem as full as an analog yet it hits with more intensity, it's the best way I can describe it. It almost feels like inhaling pixi stick candy in terms of the way it feels when it hits my throat... not sure if that makes any sense.

Edit, it reminds me more like smoking a hooka with a really harsh flavor.

Is a good ecig set up with good juice supposed to be similar to the way inhaling smoke from a hooka feels and tastes with a good flavor in the hooka?

 

[Kent C]

Is a good ecig set up with good juice supposed to be similar to the way inhaling smoke from a hooka feels and tastes with a good flavor in the hooka?

A good ecig set up with good juice should get you as much vapor as smoke from a regular cigarette, with a throat feel similar to a regular cigarette and with good flavor. Something I experience on virtually every drag on my regular set up and when I'm not experimenting with/trying out, other set ups.

 

[Meltmanbob]

Ok so it sounds like maybe something is not working as it should, I think I'll order some better juice to compare.

Any suggestions? Uzzaperez suggests in his other thread V4L since they have small sampler bottles, I forget which brand of juice but I'll go look it up.

Any personal favorites specifically or brands you like for overall good products when trying to figure out which juice is for you? I kind of see this as the learning part like I'm sure every analog smoker went through at some point trying out different cigarettes until they found "their brand/flavor."

 

[Kent C]

Ok so it sounds like maybe something is not working as it should, I think I'll order some better juice to compare.

Any suggestions? Uzzaperez suggests in his other thread V4L since they have small sampler bottles, I forget which brand of juice but I'll go look it up.

Any personal favorites specifically or brands you like for overall good products when trying to figure out which juice is for you? I kind of see this as the learning part like I'm sure every analog smoker went through at some point trying out different cigarettes until they found "their brand/flavor."

This is 'in my experience'.... the cartos that you've tried sound like they have (and evidently you can taste it - not everyone does) the 'underflavor' that's been reported in several other threads. I don't taste that in the V4Life flavors - however.... the vapor and longevity of the V4L cartos vary greatly. The flavors that have been the most consistent and the ones I like are - cafe mocha frappuccino, cognac and RY4 (but you have to like RY4 to begin with ;-). The flavors that have little vapor tend to be the menthols, but esp. newport, but also cuban cigar, virginia. Expresso, coffee, french pipe, caramel, hilton have 'ok' vapor. And if you're using a 5 volt mod, all of those get better vapor. If you're getting cutoff by the KR8 batt (I did too) I don't expect you to be able to build up a vape unless you get a longer cutoff type or another ecig batt that doesn't have a cutoff. Cartomizers work better, imo, and with what I have (I don't have an 'XL' KR8) 510 megas and mods with a cartos adapter. And again, 5volts really help things out with cartomizers.

The only flavors I haven't cared for is the newport and smilin menthol. All others are good to great but then the vapor isn't always good. If you could get a few boxes of varied samplers that would be best, imo.