The United States of Fear - Part 1

[Train2]

Sorry, but you really are misinterpreting half the intent.
Yes, there's money driving this - but the intent is not to regulate vape shops - they are actually trying, through the regs as written, to kill the industry as you know it.

There would NOT be approved devices of any "second generation". You will puff on a stick made by a cigarette company, or you will go black market.

juice will come in tobacco Menthol, and "Berry," strong or regular - and be sold in non-refillable cartridges that fit on the crappy sticks, $5 a pop, lasting maybe a day.

Note - the FDA already clarified - wrapping a coil is "manufacturing".
And yes, they "inspect" - they can visit every vape shop in the country within probably 6 months and write the first "warning letter" the minute they see an unapproved mod or store juice. Go on their site and see the citation history for cigarette shops...

 

[F34r]

I need to ask why you created an ECF account specifically to open this thread? Obviously you think you know something of the subject, but without any prior history your out of the blue posting appears to be nothing but trolling.

At any rate, personally I prefer the world as it is now rather than the one you predict.

Maybe one of the wisest replies to my thread, let's just say I've been to one too many shops, read one too many forums with people spreading panic properganda and I'm pretty sick of it. I indulge in law, several of my buddies who also vape are first time bar exam acers and we took a lot into account to try and set some records straight, I don't mind anyone disagreeing but at the very least you've read my thread, I can only hope a bit of it resonated.

The new concpiracy theory is now with the rise of DIY juice kits, within 2 years the panic will cause a maelstrom of new breed of juice makers even before the black market opens; even after those who get licensed finally get put on a shelf the industry will suffer iller fates at the hands of its own. Just keep that in mind.

 

[supertrunker]

If there are about 6 million vapers in the country, and i saw bandied about over 4000 vape shops, but it may well be more, i'm not really seeing how they'd be able to process that number of applications anyway?

Just saying.

T

 

[Hulamoon]

First of Mitch Zeller said that will cost anywhere between 150,000 to over one million per PMTA application. The other stuff cost MUCH more than it does on the street BTW. Sorry but I believe CASAA not you. You're a fool if you believe shops will still exist if these deeming regulations stay the same. Hell cigar shops won't even exist!

Plus one….and adding to that in case the new member is NOT familiar with the regulations, every ml. with a different PG, VG and nicotine ratio needs to be submitted for "review". I think the FDA "reviewed" about 9 products last year.

Not only will the vendor be handing out at least 150K for just ONE of those VG,PG, nicotine ratios, THEY are the ones who have to prove substantial equivalence - to a standard that the FDA hasn't determined themselves or refuses to impart.
In other words, "Sure, just keep sending us a million at a time for ONE flavor (in all its different ratios). Meanwhile, we'll use your thousands-of-hours-to-complete application as buttwipes, AND your money, and then refuse you ANYWAY" (insert middle finger).

How you cannot be alarmed sure beats the heck out of me.

 

[crxess]

All this panic and outcry..

You guys do know beer, wine and liquor are all alcohol but are regulated differently with different taxes, manufacturing and process? The same will apply for vaping vs. cigarettes, snuff and other NDS.

It won't cost a million dollars like everyone is .....ing, it isn't cigarettes; it won't be the same fees; in fact if you go to the FDA site and read the I'm a manufacturer page, there's no fees even up yet; a deeming regulation is yet to determine what the true cost or process will be.

So your favorite vape shop will not stock up mg levels that don't sell, juice suppliers won't continue making levels that aren't in demand and is vapers will get a surplus of our favorite nic levels in stock.

[removed]

Don't forget there are vaping millionaires looking to invest in small companies and turn them to money making corporations, expect to see the rise in actual real deal high volume companies.

Alas, we always find workarounds the law. BB guns can't be shipped to NY by federal law yet they do it anyway, regulars in bars still smoke indoors and we will continue to survive past this.

To think the gov won't collect their sin tax for this long is all but an illusion. They calculated this for years, when vaping is now in its prime it's the perfect time for the hand to dip in the cookie jar.

Everything will be ok.

Do they have Starships in your Galaxy?

Geez, Can you not read what is in Print.........499 pages of Documentation specifying exactly what will be required. Do you have a Clue what a 1500hr Federal Employee Fee amounts to?
Nothing on the Market will Qualify for SE and everything requiring a PMTA is starting at Square 1
Those FDA FEES do not even begin to count toward the tens of thousands in Research and Documentation for presentation.

2007 through 2015 - 1 Successful PMTA Application, Just 1 out of thousands of attempts.

Swedish Match North America, Inc. First to Cross FDA’s PMTA Finish Line

* This PMTA included some 100,000 pages of Documentation.

 

[Hulamoon]

Well, as you "indulge" in law and your little pals passed an exam, perhaps you will take up a class action suit on our behalf.

 

[F34r]

If there are about 6 million vapers in the country, and i saw bandied about over 4000 vape shops, but it may well be more, i'm not really seeing how they'd be able to process that number of applications anyway?

Just saying.

T

This is absolutely correct, they don't even have a process in place yet. Until regulation fully passes the reason they requested 2 years is not for us to prepare but more for the FDA to get this stuff together. I predict there will be an extension, something like this is along the likes of how Obamacare was setup; a rocky beginning and now over a million providers.

These are obviously two different animals, but somewhat a decent comparison.

 

[kbeam418]

Maybe one of the wisest replies to my thread, let's just say I've been to one too many shops, read one too many forums with people spreading panic properganda and I'm pretty sick of it. I indulge in law, several of my buddies who also vape are first time bar exam acers and we took a lot into account to try and set some records straight, I don't mind anyone disagreeing but at the very least you've read my thread, I can only hope a bit of it resonated.

The new concpiracy theory is now with the rise of DIY juice kits, within 2 years the panic will cause a maelstrom of new breed of juice makers even before the black market opens; even after those who get licensed finally get put on a shelf the industry will suffer iller fates at the hands of its own. Just keep that in mind.

I am stockpiling. I don't want the government telling me I can't buy a product. Making e liguid isn't rocket science it's pretty easy and most of the "labs" are just clean rooms. Nobody will be put on the shelf , the FDA RARELY approves life saving drugs let alone things containing nicotine.

I'm getting pretty sick of you spreading mis-information and telling everybody it's going to be alright. Get your' facts straight.

 

[snork]

Maybe one of the wisest replies to my thread, let's just say I've been to one too many shops, read one too many forums with people spreading panic properganda and I'm pretty sick of it. I indulge in law, several of my buddies who also vape are first time bar exam acers and we took a lot into account to try and set some records straight, I don't mind anyone disagreeing but at the very least you've read my thread, I can only hope a bit of it resonated.

The new concpiracy theory is now with the rise of DIY juice kits, within 2 years the panic will cause a maelstrom of new breed of juice makers even before the black market opens; even after those who get licensed finally get put on a shelf the industry will suffer iller fates at the hands of its own. Just keep that in mind.

I don't consider myself panicked, as far as my personal situation I'm set for life. I could make my own nicotine if need be. What I am is angry, angry that my government has completely disregarded and discounted millions of adults without *any* evidence that regulation is justifiable.

 

[LMS62]

I think we need even more different threads on this same topic. There are still a couple of threads under General Vaping Discussion that are not FDA related....and we can't have that. C'mon, we are still missing the thread for stocking up on needle-nose pliers, tweezers, light bulbs (for the desk lamp on your vaping work table) and Walmart cotton balls!

 

[rice721]

I think in 2 years time, by the time all the regulations kick in, we won't be in the extreme end of either spectrums: its not going to be as it is today, nor will be it become every vaper's nightmare.

As long as we have a decent pushback to whats stated on the current FDA deeming we should balance back to equilibrium. I'm thinking we're going to see more and more companies follow suite to what Halo (forgot parent company name) has been doing.

 

[F34r]

Plus one….and adding to that in case the new member is NOT familiar with the regulations, every ml. with a different PG, VG and nicotine ratio needs to be submitted for "review". I think the FDA "reviewed" about 9 products last year.

Not only will the vendor be handing out at least 150K for just ONE of those VG,PG, nicotine ratios, THEY are the ones who have to prove substantial equivalence - to a standard that the FDA hasn't determined themselves or refuses to impart.
In other words, "Sure, just keep sending us a million at a time for ONE flavor (in all its different ratios). Meanwhile, we'll use your thousands-of-hours-to-complete application as buttwipes, AND your money, and then refuse you ANYWAY" (insert middle finger).

How you cannot be alarmed sure beats the heck out of me.

This is the same kind of approach people had whe the INS changed to USCIS to handle immigration petitions, this is not entirely accurate when talking about timeframes and approval proceedings; neither you nor I can tell until the process is in place. It's in their best interest to approve, renewal of license is risidual federal income and is more valueble than rejection.

Yes every flavor, blend, bottle shape and sticker will be subject to review: the slightest difference will be considered a new market item. This will only limit inventory, a maker who ships 0, 3, 6, 12, 18 nic will be selective and only produce what actually will sell providing they have the money, credit or investor behind them. It will be more controlled but none the less not completely eradicated.

 

[kbeam418]

I think in 2 years time, by the time all the regulations kick in, we won't be in the extreme end of either spectrums: its not going to be as it is today, nor will be it become every vaper's nightmare.

As long as we have a decent pushback to whats stated on the current FDA deeming we should balance back to equilibrium. I'm thinking we're going to see more and more companies follow suite to what Halo (forgot parent company name) has been doing.

It's Nicopure LLC. I'm hoping they do in a way, nobody is opposing regulation, I wouldn't mind if the FDA required mods to have battery safety warnings

 

[bnrkwest]

I started vaping in 2009, what was available were the 3 part ecigs, cig size batt, separate atomizer and separate cartridge with juice and filling in it. Later Red Dragon came out with a Carto and they were pretty bad, but there wasn't much around so not sure what was available in 2007. Anything??

 

[rice721]

It's Nicopure LLC. I'm hoping they do in a way, nobody is opposing regulation, I wouldn't mind if the FDA required mods to have battery safety warnings

I don't mind the age restriction, honestly. If I were to have an offspring I wouldn't want them vaping period, until they're of age and have the right mindset to decide for themselves what is actually good for them.

 

[gofishtx]

I need to ask why you created an ECF account specifically to open this thread? Obviously you think you know something of the subject, but without any prior history your out of the blue posting appears to be nothing but trolling.

At any rate, personally I prefer the world as it is now rather than the one you predict.

I think Government Troll but if not I call BS on OP. You join today and start telling everyone not to worry. Something smells funny.

 

[Hitmetwice]

F34r said "Assembly is not manufacturing, though making coils can fall in a gray area not yet known. "

I digress...

"An assembly line is a manufacturing process in which interchangeable parts are added to a product in a sequential manner to create an end product."

Found here Assembly Line Methods

Cheers.

 

[kbeam418]

This is the same kind of approach people had whe the INS changed to USCIS to handle immigration petitions, this is not entirely accurate when talking about timeframes and approval proceedings; neither you nor I can tell until the process is in place. It's in their best interest to approve, renewal of license is risidual federal income and is more valueble than rejection.

Yes every flavor, blend, bottle shape and sticker will be subject to review: the slightest difference will be considered a new market item. This will only limit inventory, a maker who ships 0, 3, 6, 12, 18 nic will be selective and only produce what actually will sell providing they have the money, credit or investor behind them. It will be more controlled but none the less not completely eradicated.

that's five million dollars just right there not counting bottle size, PG/VG ratio, flavors, etc. YES IT WILL BE COMPLETELY ERADICATED! What right does the government have to tell ADULTS what WE can consume. I get to decide what I want to consume not some lawmaker, simple as that I don't care if it's safer. I'm getting so sick of the lawmakers telling me "it's for your' safety" let me decided what's safe.

 

[Hitmetwice]

I don't mind the age restriction, honestly. If I were to have an offspring I wouldn't want them vaping period, until they're of age and have the right mindset to decide for themselves what is actually good for them.

You sir actively parent your children, most seem too busy working to satisfy their needs to care as much nowadays. Hence, here we are. Cheers.

 

[WillyZee]

This is the same kind of approach people had whe the INS changed to USCIS to handle immigration petitions, this is not entirely accurate when talking about timeframes and approval proceedings; neither you nor I can tell until the process is in place. It's in their best interest to approve, renewal of license is risidual federal income and is more valueble than rejection.

Yes every flavor, blend, bottle shape and sticker will be subject to review: the slightest difference will be considered a new market item. This will only limit inventory, a maker who ships 0, 3, 6, 12, 18 nic will be selective and only produce what actually will sell providing they have the money, credit or investor behind them. It will be more controlled but none the less not completely eradicated.

welcome to ECF F34r ... let's be serious now ... do you even notice the Tobacco Cigalike tax angle in these FDA regs?

second bit of advice ... stock up on South 9