They are saying: Stop signing stupid petitions!

[KrausAldo]

Stop signing stupid petitions! Do you agree with this call?
Ok, but what else should we do? It's easy to disavow smth, still if you consider yourself so smart come up with a solution. Everybody could criticise, but few could actually do smth. What other options do we have to save the vaping industry? What actions should be undertaken to influence the FDA decision? In my opinion, even if these petitions do not help in a direct way, at least they represent means to evince to the politicians how many people are at stake and do support the motion.

Vapers who sign petitions: Stop signing stupid petitions.

 

[retired1]

I tend to agree with Carl. Petitions generally don't do anything other than annoy those who they're directed at.

If individuals want to make a bigger impact, they should be contacting their elected representatives directly.

 

[KrausAldo]

I tend to agree with Carl. Petitions generally don't do anything other than annoy those who they're directed at.
If individuals want to make a bigger impact, they should be contacting their elected representatives directly.

'annoying' those who they're directed at, is also important! Maybe it doesn't have a big impact, but these are the voices of many vapers that should be heard and need to be taken in consideration! As a pity, not all of them will find time and courage to make a call.

 

[retired1]

This pretty much sums things up.

Slacktivism or This Generation’s Activism: Do Online Petitions Work?

The takeaway: Online petitions and their success depends on how you want to view success. If raising awareness is the mission, then online petitions are usually always a winning formula. But if immediate change at high levels and offline action are the measure of success, you may often find yourself disappointed.

Considering most petitions dealing with vaping are requesting immediate change to existing or upcoming policy, they're not going to accomplish what most want. In order to effect change, direct action is necessary by contacting elected representatives in droves.

 

[Stubby]

Every petition started about vaping has ended in failure. There has now been three petitions to the white house. The first one was brushed off directing people to the FDA for guidance. The second one was completely ignored. The last one was recently responded to with political double talk, and really nothing else.

Many, if not all the other petitions, besides being in general badly written, are completely useless and have come, or will come to nothing. It is a waste of time and energy to support them as has been shown over and over.

If you really want to do something contact your representative, join CASAA and do their call to actions. Educate people on a grassroots level, and that would include your local vape shop. But don't fall into the trap of signing a petition and thinking you have done something useful.

 

[EBates]

The only way to draw attention anymore is pulling the 'Black lives matter' act. The news media just loves this kind of crap. It has had the effect, in some cases, of putting putting a spotlight on what our BG Gestapo is pulling.

 

[Lessifer]

This pretty much sums things up.

Slacktivism or This Generation’s Activism: Do Online Petitions Work?

The takeaway: Online petitions and their success depends on how you want to view success. If raising awareness is the mission, then online petitions are usually always a winning formula. But if immediate change at high levels and offline action are the measure of success, you may often find yourself disappointed.

Considering most petitions dealing with vaping are requesting immediate change to existing or upcoming policy, they're not going to accomplish what most want. In order to effect change, direct action is necessary by contacting elected representatives in droves.

I personally think that is the key point. Considering that, at most, we get action of around 100,000 vapers for anything that anybody does, raising awareness is a space where we are seriously lacking.

Every day I see the same refrain on this forum: "My local B&M doesn't even know about the deeming regs." "Most vapers have no idea what's coming."

I think we need to do EVERYTHING that we can to get the word out, and so far, we're failing.

 

[zoiDman]

Nothing was Lost. It was Given Away.

This Forum can get 100,000's of Posts for a TC Mod Give-Away, but we have to Struggle to get 3,500 People to send in a Comment to the FDA during a Comment Period.

Lots of People Don't Care. Don't Know. Or Don't think there is Anything to Worry about.

Some even say that Trying to Do Something is a Waste of Time. So we Shouldn't do it. Heck, I read a Post Today about how Voting Doesn't Matter.

Were Not Fighting the FDA Anymore. Were Fighting to get the 95% who Do Nothing to do Something. Anything.

I Fight, and Continue to Fight, because I have a Bad Habit when I Close my Eyes at Night of Wondering what the World would be Like if the People actually were Involved? Not just those who are Supposed to Represent Us.

And do I want to be like the 95 who sit on the Sidelines and Whine about things? Or do I want to Step Inline and Try to Make a Difference?

 

[Lessifer]

I Get It: You Don't Like Slacktivism. Now Shut Up. Only Don't.

 

[WillyZee]

what ... no poll?

 

[Jman8]

CASAA, to me (a member) is one big petition to change things. A key aspect of CASAA (or any organization) is there is strength in numbers. If that is accurate, then petitions darn well matter.

This idea that petitions have failed us makes me squarely want to address what has worked out so well for us that we are now seeing the changes we keep advocating for? Show me that action, cause currently my politically aware side could use same cynicism directed at petitions and point out just how god awful the rest of what we are up to has turned out, thus far.

I don't think petitions are an end all be all, but there's not a single item around that is. Surely it isn't science (which is visibly divided over the broad topic). Surely it isn't politics (which is visibly divided over this and countless other issues). Surely joining an organization advocating for vaping rights isn't, all by itself, going to do all things we, as individuals, may want.

For me, petitions are part of a checklist titled, "what are all the possible things I might do to invoke a change I wish to see?"

 

[Kent C]

I've never signed a petition here. I have written congress, many outside of my district or state and have participated in most of the CASAA CTA's, although with the canned replies that we've all received from our representatives - (exceptions noted - Duncan Hunter and for me Ted Cruz but others I've seen here) one could make a similar type argument about emails to representatives.

The only thing that will change things is to vote for pro-vape, anti-regulation types. And then keep a close watch on them after their 'sophomore year'. And turn them out, when their view becomes part of the Washington Establishment.

 

[Jman8]

I've never signed a petition here. I have written congress, many outside of my district or state and have participated in most of the CASAA CTA's, although with the canned replies that we've all received from our representatives - (exceptions noted - Duncan Hunter and for me Ted Cruz but others I've seen here) one could make a similar type argument about emails to representatives.

The only thing that will change things is to vote for pro-vape, anti-regulation types. And then keep a close watch on them after their 'sophomore year'. And turn them out, when their view becomes part of the Washington Establishment.

Agree in theory, but your 'only thing' appears to have built-in notion that even that might not work out for us.

I think black market is something that could work out well for us over the long term (aka 100 years, probably a lot less). I estimate that maybe 10,000 people on the planet right now realize we are (or just were) in the golden era of vaping. I think many more will see it as golden era when the age of restriction/regulation comes about. How many more, remains to be seen, but I could see it being very substantial number (like 10 times more than what we have right now) when regulations are in full gear. The dynamics playing out during that period will be very tough to quantify, though I imagine many will try. And an underground market will be a very key dynamic. If TPTB overplay their hand (which seems entirely likely), then like 'other stuff,' vaping has a very good chance of making a comeback. That comeback probably won't match the golden era, cause after years of heavy restrictions, having the product taxed up the wazoo will seem far better than the age of restrictions. Yet, overplaying the tax card could just as well mean that some very much want an underground market to continue. Thus, the only hope in the long run is for overwhelming majority to have it be legal, not taxed too high and for education (on all sides) to be as plentiful as possible, with supreme factor of 'honesty is the only policy.' An (underground) market based on dishonesty won't last long.

 

[bobwho77]

I've never signed a petition here. I have written congress, many outside of my district or state and have participated in most of the CASAA CTA's, although with the canned replies that we've all received from our representatives - (exceptions noted - Duncan Hunter and for me Ted Cruz but others I've seen here) one could make a similar type argument about emails to representatives.

The only thing that will change things is to vote for pro-vape, anti-regulation types. And then keep a close watch on them after their 'sophomore year'. And turn them out, when their view becomes part of the Washington Establishment.

I've written several legislators myself. I've also talked to my Congresscritter IN PERSON about vaping. May not have actually changed her mind, but at least I know my voice was heard

 

[retired1]

I personally think that is the key point. Considering that, at most, we get action of around 100,000 vapers for anything that anybody does, raising awareness is a space where we are seriously lacking.

Every day I see the same refrain on this forum: "My local B&M doesn't even know about the deeming regs." "Most vapers have no idea what's coming."

I think we need to do EVERYTHING that we can to get the word out, and so far, we're failing.

I would hazard a guess that most who claim they don't know about the deeming regulations and local attempts to ban vaping wouldn't care if they did know.

 

[nicnik]

Stop signing stupid petitions! Do you agree with this call?
Ok, but what else should we do? It's easy to disavow smth, still if you consider yourself so smart come up with a solution. Everybody could criticise, but few could actually do smth. What other options do we have to save the vaping industry? What actions should be undertaken to influence the FDA decision? In my opinion, even if these petitions do not help in a direct way, at least they represent means to evince to the politicians how many people are at stake and do support the motion.

Vapers who sign petitions: Stop signing stupid petitions.

From the petition:

Whereas signing and circulating a petition creates the illusion of having done something useful without accomplishing anything, thereby reducing people's inclination to do one of the many genuinely useful things they could be doing for the cause;

OTOH, it could very well break the ice for some people, and they may go on to become more active in advocacy. IOW, it could increase some people's inclination...

Where's the data backing Carl's claim? Maybe he can read some people's minds, but certainly not everybody's.

I've only ever seen 2 or 3 worse vaping petitions than this one.

 

[AndriaD]

I agree with Jman; signing petitions, all by itself, probably won't do much, if anything, but it's just ONE THING among several that need to be done, and we really need to be doing EVERYTHING POSSIBLE! Including starting and signing petitions. The Squeaky wheel gets the grease, so we need to make sure and make a hell of a squeak! And be the mouse that ROARED!

Andria

 

[Lessifer]

I would hazard a guess that most who claim they don't know about the deeming regulations and local attempts to ban vaping wouldn't care if they did know.

You may be right for some, possibly even most vapers. However, every day there are more people picking up their first kit. I'd wager that the 30 year smoker who just learned about vaping, and hasn't heard about the deeming, or more importantly what it might mean for vaping, might care a lot. If they happen to find ECF, great. If they happen across CASAA, fantastic. If they don't hear about any of it until it's too late... Well, sucks to be them.

Add to that all of the non vapers, who may know someone who vapes. Maybe they'll read a shared blog post, probably not, but just maybe they'll take a minute to read a petition that a loved one has asked them to sign.
I'd hate to think that we'll always be in this fight alone, because we will never win that way.

 

[Stubby]

This is a discussion started by Gregory Conley on the CASAA Facebook page.


There is a reason why every advocate that is in the trenches and has real world experience scorns petitions. They don't work and often end up being a negative. Read through the link as a CASAA board member explains what they are finding as they go to vape meets.

I am not quite sure why people think petitions have any value when everything we have learned points in the opposite direction. I am guessing there are some egos involved with this.

 

[skoony]

I believe the petitions are necessary in as much as it lets them know that we now
what they are up too. Three petitions on the same subject reaching the White house
on the same subject have to be reaching someone's ear. How many pro unpasteurized
milk petitions got to the White House before the government laid off the farmers?
Somewhere in DC someone has to be taking a hard count of all the various subjects
people are plain fed up with in all sectors of society. Even the general public has
a pretty cynical view of government's dealings. Many are starting to understand
despite what we have been taught it's not government's job to meet every year
pass new laws,regulations and taxes. Their job is to run the country not create
bloated bureaucracies with the lust to expand.
I believe they know and understand this. It does explain a lot of the irrational behavior.
Sooner or later the government is going to have to take a hard long look at itself and
come to the realisation they need not control and or get a cut out of every economic
endeavor the citizens of this country take part in. There job is to promote the general
welfare not,micromanage the individual.
I say keep sending the petitions. If anything it reminds them their day is coming. It's
my sincere hope that when they awaken from time to time in the dark hours of the
night they have a creeping anxiety, a nameless fear, a faceless specter hiding behind
each door. That would be us and sooner or later we're coming.

Regards
Mike