They are saying: Stop signing stupid petitions!
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Again, can you name things that have worked? Would be nice if the advocates in the trenches could point to some monumental successes (in the real world) they've achieved. How about just minor successes? And just to be as clear as I can, I do think whatever it is the advocates (of which I consider myself and many here) are up to is likely helpful and great, but if bringing into play the idea of it needs to be successful to be worthy of consideration, it would help fellow advocates to understand what that means, in the real world.
Success? How about that certain stuff we can't talk about here?
Mike
I meant vaping advocates. What are the successes that they (or we) have to show off so that when we are blasting petitions as unproductive, we can say, but this other thing works? Would be nice to have that under our belt so that petitions can have actual criticism applied rather than just the negative / player hating criticism and, in reality, nothing more than that.
There have been many successes on the local level, with a good deal of that because of the calls to action by CASAA informing people as to what was coming. It didn't happen because someone showed up with at petition. It happened because people showed up and talked to local representatives, and testified at local meetings.
Where have you been for the last five years that you are not aware of what this.
Where have you been for the last five years that you are not aware of what this.
Sometimes I feel as though contacting my reps does NOTHING as well. All I ever get back is an auto-response e-mail to the tune of "Thank you for contacting Senator/House-Rep: XXXXXXX, we truly appreciate your support! Yadda yadda yadda, we truly want to serve you, for you are the people we are here to serve, yadda yadda, wah-wahh-wah---wahh-wahh-wah-wahh..." BS! If we BATCH-CONTACT our representatives, they should at-LEAST BATCH-RESPOND, by sending everyone whom contacted he/she on a particular subject, the same PERSONALLY WRITTEN E-MAIL. What the H are we paying these people for, if they can't batch-respond to 100's or 1000's of individuals trying to say/ask the SAME EXACT THING? Instead, they respond to EVERYONE the SAME EXACT WAY. That's BS. Total BS.
I hate the way our Gov works... The decision was made (in each of our reps minds) the minute the issue came across their desks... It was made the moment they were contacted by large organizations. WE the PEOPLE don't FN matter, DO WE!?
I hate the way our Gov works... The decision was made (in each of our reps minds) the minute the issue came across their desks... It was made the moment they were contacted by large organizations. WE the PEOPLE don't FN matter, DO WE!?
I doubt this will happen until a sufficient number of people stand up and loudly say, "Enough!"
With loaded weapons in hand. Thank god for that 2nd amendment. The Founding Fathers knew that all gov'ts eventually get too big for their britches.
Andria
I was talking about the national level. Care to address that?
Are you aware of any petitions that occur / have occurred at the local level, and were ineffective? Any petitioning at all at local level would possibly suffice to help me realize you were comparing apples to apples.
You would think we would be above sweeping generalizations, using anecdotes as "proof" and accepting opinion as fact. It's funny to me though that some people say it's not about the petition itself, it's about using the petition to spread awareness, and the response always seems to be "petitions don't matter."
The one thing we vapers seem to be great at, is alienating each other.
The one thing we vapers seem to be great at, is alienating each other.
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Because it is easy and allows you to not have to do much except sit behind their keyboard, basically doing nothing but making a few clicks?
Still, one might argue, "it's better than nothing."
I have no statistics on this. I've watched ban after ban roll across the U.S. so I can't say for sure that "typing as activism" works at all.
My state rep is a neighbor, I run into him quite often and just give a "piece of my mind" in person. And believe me, I have.
It hasn't done much either since the Rs in my Red state already decided what they want to do about ejuice sales online (i.e. not allow it anymore). The law was already passed. In 2 years they will have a vote on taxing it.
Only way to get it unpassed is probably a lawsuit, ala Indiana.
In person is how I have always managed stuff, and when I need something I write a personal letter to my reps., stick a stamp on it, and mail it. I KNOW this works because I write to my reps every year for season passes to my racetrack, and every year, they send me 2. (I include a self addressed stamped envelope to make things easier on them as well.....always make it easy for somebody to reply to you!)
The normal way that industries get traction is that there is a large umbrella trade/professional group that everybody joins so that resources can be shared, i.e. legal fees, education, lobbying, etc. Membership in such a trade org. is pretty important. Unfortunately, the ecig industry has remained pretty fragmented, (even the trade groups are numerous and fragmented) and as people have pointed out, seems like most of the vendors don't even know what is going on and are just selling stuff.
In other industries, trade group leaders deploy a wide range of lobbying tactics, as well as forging relationships with state lawmakers and "influence gurus", and spending $$$ on media campaigns to shape public opinion.
But you have to be banded together as a group, and organized, to accomplish these things. (and even more important when the issue is something that only about 20% or less of the population is even involved in. Vapers on a vaping forum often don't realize that this is not a big issue for the rest of the population who doesn't smoke or vape.) I mean, I don't even KNOW anybody who cares about this stuff, since nobody i know (off this forum) smokes or vapes.
IMHO this didn't happen as it should, and individual vapers starting petitions isn't exactly part and parcel of how to address the power elite. Never will be either.
now that so many bans are in place, and laws passed, the only way to undo them is legal. Or a very powerful lobby group. Seems like nobody wants to pay for these things in the industry.
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After reading comments on this thread, I still think black market is the best thing we can do in resistance to those who advocate for a heavily restrictive market. Not the only thing we can do, but it literally takes the desire to heavily restrict the product and says at the level of actual consumer, none of your laws / control measures apply.
But hey, maybe one of these posts someone will remind me of an advocacy action on our side that has worked tremendously to change things at the federal/national level.
But hey, maybe one of these posts someone will remind me of an advocacy action on our side that has worked tremendously to change things at the federal/national level.
In my opinion...
Anyone that would be dissuaded from taking further action simply because they signed a petition...
Is a person that most likely would not have done squat to begin with.
And the relatively small number of people this would apply to...
Would be far outweighed by the number of people who might become aware and further motivated.
A person can not be motivated to action over an issue they are not even aware of.
Anyone that would be dissuaded from taking further action simply because they signed a petition...
Is a person that most likely would not have done squat to begin with.
And the relatively small number of people this would apply to...
Would be far outweighed by the number of people who might become aware and further motivated.
A person can not be motivated to action over an issue they are not even aware of.
seems pretty simple to me, but who am I, or you? Perhaps some organizations are content with growing their memberships via luck and happenstance.
I'm all for this "Black Market" that everyone here on ECF continuously speaks of... Sure, it would be nice to "stick it to the man" and continue vaping, regardless of the legality or illegality. However, are we sure we completely understand the whole "black market" infrastructure? I mean, how do we.. exactly.. plan.. on maintaining this "black market" of sorts? For instance- Within the US, certain states impose a sales-tax on online sales. This is why some websites, have a TAX add-on, above the S&H charges, in the basket. Errr... If websites are adhering to these imposed state-taxes, in fear of federal/felony-repercussion, how do we know that individual state governments (not to mention the fed) will-not enforce the bans for each individual vapor shoppe? hm? Shops operating within the US are at risk of losing their legality, and, I have to admit, I can't see too many mature adult shop owners continuing to operate under risk of serious penalties, perhaps even federal/felonious penalty...
ON THE OTHER HAND- YES, we've still got FOREIGN shopping, right? But... Is anyone here aware of the herbal marketplace? Once upon a time, I was very-much the herbal-nerd. I was always looking for a way to change my... mental perceptions, my, state of mind, so-to-speak. I warn ya'll, there were once plenty of perfectly legal herbs, that went the way of the dodo-bird, due to government bills & bans. Look at Salvia- Once a perfectly legal sacramental herb, used in Indian Ceremonies, used for shaman divination practices... 1 state after the next, banned Salvia, & eventually, so-did the GOV... Americans were free & able to order it from foreign country, until it passed down the empty desks and chairs of our senate and congress houses... GONE is our ability to order it, from foreign states, these days... & "Salvia" is just ONE example, of the MANY, many banned items & parcels our government does-not wish us to have or use. It is now a scheduled, fully-illegal substance, within the walls of our great free country. So I ask those of you whom perpetuate this HOPE that we will surely be-able to maintain a black market of sorts, for our entire e-cig/mod market, how do you suppose we order products from China, if China has a red/blue american thumb blocking the main vein it uses to ship us our e-cigs? With products like Salvia, the moment it became federally illegal to own/sell/possess in the US, China ceased sale to the US. Is this a/the possible fate, for our beloved e-cigarette products? & if-so, where do you suppose this "black-market" will thrive, if not the last free frontier, of the internet's global sales & trade systems? hm? the street? do you suppose we'll be buying our Joyetech Evic Mini's and Kanger Subtank's from the tan inner pockets of Chinese man in a collar-to-toe trench coat? I somehow doubt that future.
& lets say MODS become absolutely impossible to find/buy... Sure, that could-be a possible future, correct? However, the demand for e-liquid (nude/flavorless, or not) will still be quite high, yes? Will the demand be high enough to create a viable, livable, breathable black market? and if-so, where will THIS black market spring up? Certainly NOT the street. We won't be buying our 100% pure from Triad street dealers, will we? lol. It'd no-doubt be diluted, or.. idk.. what's a good word for diluted nicotine? CUT, maybe? lol. Do you expect to be able to order Chinese/foreign nicotine, when people are handed 4000K fines & SERIOUS JAIL-TIME, for importing cigarettes, ILLEGALLY, to circumvent state & federal sales taxes? I doubt flavorless nicotine concentrate solution will-b any easier to order than these tax-free cigarettes/tobacco products, if the fed does regulate it in a similar fashion. China will want nothing to do with the possible legal issues. There are currently more US GOV. STING-OPERATION-SITES, than real, actual websites attempting to sell tobacco products to US citizens. (seriously)
Because it is easy and allows you to not have to do much except sit behind their keyboard, basically doing nothing but making a few clicks?
Only way to get it unpassed is probably a lawsuit, ala Indiana.
Too damn easy. Why isn't there 24/7 Telivision Stations broadcasting upcoming house votes? Why isn't there an EASIER WAY for citizens of this country, to follow the bills up for review/discussion - Even the website that DOES exist, is nearly impossible for a layman to understand, and even-more-so impossible for the average HOME-PC operator to NAVIGATE! It's truly disgusting how HARD it is to follow federal government affairs in the country. They even took-away C-SPAN, which was a rough/shabby attempt at a TV station to follow/discuss upcoming federal bills-to-be passed/reviewed. BS! There is more airtime of UK parliamentary affairs on US Television Stations, than there is airtime of US HOUSE AFFAIRS, DAMN-IT!! & there are more people/posters in this thread, CHEEKILY stating that petitions do nothing, than there are people in this thread publicly showing their DISGUST toward the fact that PETITIONS-DO-NOTHING!!! Petitions SHOULD.. DO... SOMETHING! The world has CHANGED, citizens DO SIT AT HOME, and we should be able to make a difference, CLICKING BUTTONS!! EASY AS THAT! Have you ever SEEN a Senate/House vote in progress?? HOW MANY Senators/Congressmen/Women actually show-UP for the damn vote? 30 percent, maybe? Why do they expect different from us, in means of protesting a possible bill? (they shouldn't) So, rather than laugh at the people signing petitions, why aren't we ANGRY at the fact that petitions DON'T WORK? & does contacting our reps actually DO ANYTHING either? ALL I get back, is an automated e-mail, THANKING ME FOR MY SUPPORT, whenever I've contacted my state reps. BS. They're OWNED by corporate america. 200 e-mails, or a 20,000 person petition, does NOTHING to sway their votes - Not as-long as Nicorette and the American Lung Association has 1-2 lobbyists taking them out to dinner/paying for their billboard or TV commercial during election season.
& what is this Lawsuit you speak of, concerning Indiana? I've not heard anything on this subject, I don't think?
I'm all for this "Black Market" that everyone here on ECF continuously speaks of... Sure, it would be nice to "stick it to the man" and continue vaping, regardless of the legality or illegality. However, are we sure we completely understand the whole "black market" infrastructure? I mean, how do we.. exactly.. plan.. on maintaining this "black market" of sorts? For instance- Within the US, certain states impose a sales-tax on online sales. This is why some websites, have a TAX add-on, above the S&H charges, in the basket. Errr... If websites are adhering to these imposed state-taxes, in fear of federal/felony-repercussion, how do we know that individual state governments (not to mention the fed) will-not enforce the bans for each individual vapor shoppe? hm? Shops operating within the US are at risk of losing their legality, and, I have to admit, I can't see too many mature adult shop owners continuing to operate under risk of serious penalties, perhaps even federal/felonious penalty...
ON THE OTHER HAND- YES, we've still got FOREIGN shopping, right? But... Is anyone here aware of the herbal marketplace? Once upon a time, I was very-much the herbal-nerd. I was always looking for a way to change my... mental perceptions, my, state of mind, so-to-speak. I warn ya'll, there were once plenty of perfectly legal herbs, that went the way of the dodo-bird, due to government bills & bans. Look at Salvia- Once a perfectly legal sacramental herb, used in Indian Ceremonies, used for shaman divination practices... 1 state after the next, banned Salvia, & eventually, so-did the GOV... Americans were free & able to order it from foreign country, until it passed down the empty desks and chairs of our senate and congress houses... GONE is our ability to order it, from foreign states, these days... & "Salvia" is just ONE example, of the MANY, many banned items & parcels our government does-not wish us to have or use. It is now a scheduled, fully-illegal substance, within the walls of our great free country. So I ask those of you whom perpetuate this HOPE that we will surely be-able to maintain a black market of sorts, for our entire e-cig/mod market, how do you suppose we order products from China, if China has a red/blue american thumb blocking the main vein it uses to ship us our e-cigs? With products like Salvia, the moment it became federally illegal to own/sell/possess in the US, China ceased sale to the US. Is this a/the possible fate, for our beloved e-cigarette products? & if-so, where do you suppose this "black-market" will thrive, if not the last free frontier, of the internet's global sales & trade systems? hm? the street? do you suppose we'll be buying our Joyetech Evic Mini's and Kanger Subtank's from the tan inner pockets of Chinese man in a collar-to-toe trench coat? I somehow doubt that future.
& lets say MODS become absolutely impossible to find/buy... Sure, that could-be a possible future, correct? However, the demand for e-liquid (nude/flavorless, or not) will still be quite high, yes? Will the demand be high enough to create a viable, livable, breathable black market? and if-so, where will THIS black market spring up? Certainly NOT the street. We won't be buying our 100% pure from Triad street dealers, will we? lol. It'd no-doubt be diluted, or.. idk.. what's a good word for diluted nicotine? CUT, maybe? lol. Do you expect to be able to order Chinese/foreign nicotine, when people are handed 4000K fines & SERIOUS JAIL-TIME, for importing cigarettes, ILLEGALLY, to circumvent state & federal sales taxes? I doubt flavorless nicotine concentrate solution will-b any easier to order than these tax-free cigarettes/tobacco products, if the fed does regulate it in a similar fashion. China will want nothing to do with the possible legal issues. There are currently more US GOV. STING-OPERATION-SITES, than real, actual websites attempting to sell tobacco products to US citizens. (seriously)
There's no planning on maintaining the black market. Wouldn't be underground if it were that way. It won't likely be as pleasant as the under regulated golden era of vaping, but will likely be better than the available open market that restricts everything. You won't have 15 million choices of products in the underground market. Then again, if flavors are completely restricted on open market, theoretically, you could (rather easily) have millions of products available right there.
If your whole rebuttal is to say hardware will be hit hard, I agree. While flavoring is really really huge issue, it isn't what is markably the engine of the golden era. That would be hardware. It will likely no longer be plausible to have lots of variation in devices, that are constantly being updated/improved upon, and that are easily attainable, delivered right to your door. But if choice is between open legal market and closed systems and 2 to 10 options (in all) on underground market for open systems (many of which most buyers will not be aware of, and stuck with 1 or 2 options), then that market will be open.
As the CASAA piece notes, it would be entirely plausible that devices be sold for 'other intended purposes' and thus devices could be available, delivered to your door, in that way. Would have to assume government is super speedy in addressing this to think black market operators wouldn't have a plan of stocking up / helping distribute what is available. But under that scenario where that loophole is closed, it still wouldn't mean the market is not viable. Tough to come by? Sure. But very possible.
As long as flavors / nicotine is thriving on the underground market, it would give off very strong impression that the overall market is thriving. No one but diehard loyal vapers, who are aware of hardware that was available in golden era would care about devices. On the outside looking in, it would seem like the business was doing just fine if eLiquid is selling well, and/or liquid nic is being sold in decent quantities. While some are stocking up for 10 years or more, the consumer in the underground market could just as easily go with stock for 3+ months and thus not have to worry about a hefty penalty for obtaining teaspoons of product. Obviously this will all depend on how harsh local/federal laws are, but as no one is currently talking actual ban, then a worst case scenario is likely at least 3 years away, perhaps far more like 10 to 25 years away.
It will occur on the 'street' but not in way I'm getting from your post. It would be more like a friend of a friend of a friend can obtain whatever it is you need (in terms of liquid) and just come on over to my house on a certain day, and I'll hook you up. Some of that could take place on the street among strangers, and involve armed people who want to be sure they get paid and aren't going to get robbed, but I would hardly call that the norm. At same time, the more that type of thing happens and danger(s) ensue, the better politically going forward, cause it'll show non-vapers how utterly ridiculous heavy restrictions have become.
It's literally impossible to predict the underground market and all the facets that could play out. Just try doing that with the legal market. Good luck. But some assumption that says product will be impossible to obtain or you'll always be in danger when operating in that market, strikes me as fear mongering. What will matter is how popular that market is (how high demand actually is) and how political types react to that. I expect in first 3 years for antis to gloat about heavy restrictions and possibly deny an underground market will exist, which would benefit the underground market. When things get really going will be when laws / enforcement actions are in place to take down underground rings/networks and send a message that buying from this will cost you in terms of fines/jail times. But like all things illegal, the point to those who maintain demand will be "don't get caught." And if anything like other underground markets, the people buying amounts for individual use will very likely not register on the legal radar. The persons trying to deliver tons of product to mid level vendors are the targets. And if anything like other underground markets, if there is still a demand after 50 busts on that level, then political types need to make a decision if putting lots of resources into stopping that is truly worth it.
Really, all the political stuff that could play out during the black market days is stuff that's hard to predict, but I don't see how it will benefit restrictive types unless they are somehow involved in a conspiracy and hedging their bets (by participating in the illegal market and seeking to eliminate competition).
The whole concept of buying something on the black market is antithetical to any sort of "organization"... it's "I know a guy", maybe a guy you work with, or know down the street, or a friend of a friend... been patronizing that sort of black market for over 40 yrs now, and trust me, anything there is demand for, someone will fill it and provide said product. No, there isn't a lot of choice, unless you happen to know more than one guy. But available? Of course it's available, ANYTHING that people will willingly pay for, it's available. You just have to "know a guy."
Andria
Andria
The best examples are in countries that have totally shut down free enterprise for necessities. We could learn a lot from them except their speech is suppressed as well. Once economic liberties are lost - the next target is personal liberties in such areas as health, communications, press, etc. etc. all justified 'for the public good' while the public either suffers or finds alternative means.
Guess you didn't click enough buttons. EASY AS THAT!
You do a great injustice to those who have given their very lives for what they believe in, political, social and economic.
Even just the right to vote. Maybe you can read up on the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia. South Africa's first post-apartheid election and how they got there. Talk to the people in Burma and ask them what happened when they showed up en masse to vote for Aung San Suu Kyi and where Kyi went after that. Were you even born yet during the marches from Selma to Montgomery? All those people could have just stayed home and signed petitions and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 would have been a cake walk I guess?
(Some younger people seem to be lacking in the basic historical knowledge of the many struggles that went before them....thousands and thousands, all over the planet.)
Too bad we couldn't have just told them how EASY it could have and should have been, huh?
(Maybe tell the people who serve in the Armed Forces the same thing.)Instead of asking people why they are not signing petitions and sending emails, perhaps a more practical question, and one which puts pedal to the metal, is:
What Sacrafices Are You Willing to Make to see what you believe is Justice and Freedom as it pertains to vaping? (or anything else, but this is a vaping forum so we'll leave it there).
To be honest, and maybe I'm just one of those crochety older people making comments on the newer generations, but if you guys think you are going to petition your way and mouse-click your way to a *better world* ----
then good luck with that. I think you're in for a rude awakening myself.
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Oh, no, I'm definitely speaking of ordering illegally or through loophole, as Jman8 reminded me of. (thanks Jman8) We do have a chance of utilizing loophole. The.. "Handheld Fog Machine" or "Flashlight Battery Body" defenses, if you will. what I am afraid-of, is what Andria is speaking of. (F THAT!) I do NOT want to have-to speak to "a guy" at the bar by that housing project near the downtown Wachovia bank, to buy a new damn Mod or some Nic! & there's no WAY I'd welcome the hit to innovation... I am NOT going back to "the Chuck mod" people... NO.. PLEASE NO.... If I am offered a mod made of PVC pipe, I'm gonna freak out.
lol. I guess what I was attempting to say, throughout that lengthy post, is... I really don't see a local black market springing up. I just don't. I don't see a black market springing up forsomething like an 18650 sized e-cigarette mod. & if you DO find a local "outlet" (Man/Gal) with mods of that size, it'll be new old stock for few years, and then poof, there'll be nothing but that 1 guy that makes them out of black plastic battery boxes w/a red plastic horn switch. haha. Please, no...
As-for e-liquid, I just don't know... & I hate to be negative... But, there's really no getting around a ban on nicotine, suspended in PG or VG... Unless we begin vaping nicotine analogues lol. & that's a whole new beast of problems, and, they'll just pass a "ban of all nicotine analogues" act in another 3-4 years Idk guys/gals... Idk.
& whomever is questioning me on my patriotism, or my support of the men & women in our US military, both home and abroad- please, I am very patriotic & I see NO ISSUE with wishing our government would adapt to the times better than it has, & wish that they would make it easier for those whom ARE too lazy, or injured, etc... to get up & out. There is 1 truth that the US doesn't want to admit- we're a comfy capitalist country PAST our PRIME... In-fact, we're PAST our expiration-date, aren't we? The average capitalism lasts 200 years, we're well-past our 200yr mark, and, we've become acustomed to a capitalistic marketplace, but, we're boring children whom grow up feeling entitled to CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP when it comes to innovation/new-tech/etc and when it comes to availability & amount, variety, etc, when it comes to our goods... and with this expectation of instant gratification toward the open-market, comes expectation of instant gratification toward election, toward federal sanction, bill creation, etc.... do you not ADMIT that the people of our great nation, have a hard-time with political affairs? Do you not ADMIT that the voter turn-out for ALL parties decreases almost every single year? and even-so, in my experience, the average american voter votes on gut instinct, or on what candidate represents 1 to 5 of their strong beliefs... hell, my mom will vote for WHICHEVER candidate A. is against abortion, or B. SAYS their Christian... I suspect a large majority of our citizens vote the same exact way, sorry to say it, but that's just what I believe... & I just dont think it fair for the government to expect us to travel to washington DC to protest a federal bill. There should-be a TV show w. a number at the bottom of the screen, like American Idol, or Dancing With The Stars!!! THATs the BEST way to get American citizens interested in- and able to express political opinion. Make the process more akin to general, everyday life - simple as that. Just my humble opinion.
gnite every1. sleep tight and sweet dreams.
what I am afraid-of, is what Andria is speaking of. (F THAT!) I do NOT want to have-to speak to "a guy" at the bar by that housing project near the downtown Wachovia bank, to buy a new damn Mod or some Nic! & there's no WAY I'd welcome the hit to innovation... I am NOT going back to "the Chuck mod" people... NO.. PLEASE NO.... If I am offered a mod made of PVC pipe, I'm gonna freak out.lol. I guess what I was attempting to say, throughout that lengthy post, is... I really don't see a local black market springing up. I just don't. I don't see a black market springing up forsomething like an 18650 sized e-cigarette mod. & if you DO find a local "outlet" (Man/Gal) with mods of that size, it'll be new old stock for few years, and then poof, there'll be nothing but that 1 guy that makes them out of black plastic battery boxes w/a red plastic horn switch. haha. Please, no...
As-for e-liquid, I just don't know... & I hate to be negative... But, there's really no getting around a ban on nicotine, suspended in PG or VG... Unless we begin vaping nicotine analogues lol. & that's a whole new beast of problems, and, they'll just pass a "ban of all nicotine analogues" act in another 3-4 years
Idk guys/gals... Idk. & whomever is questioning me on my patriotism, or my support of the men & women in our US military, both home and abroad- please, I am very patriotic & I see NO ISSUE with wishing our government would adapt to the times better than it has, & wish that they would make it easier for those whom ARE too lazy, or injured, etc... to get up & out. There is 1 truth that the US doesn't want to admit- we're a comfy capitalist country PAST our PRIME... In-fact, we're PAST our expiration-date, aren't we? The average capitalism lasts 200 years, we're well-past our 200yr mark, and, we've become acustomed to a capitalistic marketplace, but, we're boring children whom grow up feeling entitled to CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP when it comes to innovation/new-tech/etc and when it comes to availability & amount, variety, etc, when it comes to our goods... and with this expectation of instant gratification toward the open-market, comes expectation of instant gratification toward election, toward federal sanction, bill creation, etc.... do you not ADMIT that the people of our great nation, have a hard-time with political affairs? Do you not ADMIT that the voter turn-out for ALL parties decreases almost every single year? and even-so, in my experience, the average american voter votes on gut instinct, or on what candidate represents 1 to 5 of their strong beliefs... hell, my mom will vote for WHICHEVER candidate A. is against abortion, or B. SAYS their Christian... I suspect a large majority of our citizens vote the same exact way, sorry to say it, but that's just what I believe... & I just dont think it fair for the government to expect us to travel to washington DC to protest a federal bill. There should-be a TV show w. a number at the bottom of the screen, like American Idol, or Dancing With The Stars!!! THATs the BEST way to get American citizens interested in- and able to express political opinion. Make the process more akin to general, everyday life - simple as that. Just my humble opinion.
gnite every1. sleep tight and sweet dreams.
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