This was news to me!

[mikepetro]

I (we) have known for a long time that diacetyl was in a lot of "butter/cream" flavorings, to the point that the vaping community pressured juice makers for alternatives.

I had no idea it was in so many others. For example I use a lot of Peach.

Coming from the NIH, I tend to believe them more than most other government agencies. IMHO their information is usually fairly objective and factual. Much more so than the FDA etc. For example, I am very intimate with alcoholism, and their info is spot on, and objective.

Buttery E-Cig Flavorings May Impair Lung Function

https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.1510185

 

[dreamvaper]

Buttery E-Cig Flavorings May Impair Lung Function

sounds very suspicious to me, did they test it on people? which ejuice was used, how much per day per person, how many ppl from the tested group showed the symptoms and many many more questions without the proper answers.

 

[charlie1465]

sounds very suspicious to me,

The study is very specific to one specific element of lung function. The cilia are tiny microscopic hairs which aid in expelling foreign bodies from the lungs. These hairs are paralysed in cigarette smoking which is partly why bronchitus etc is more prevalent in smokers. In terms of copd however these hairs are not the only factor in its onset so no need for immediate alarm.

If a substance is found to cause harm it is a good thing that we know about it and that there are scientist's out there that look at these things. Things marked for human consumption should be safe...after all there have been many diseases which have increased dramatically since the advent of certain chemicals. I see no reason to think that this study is bogus.

But is it something to be worried about as a vaper. For me no it probably has a very minor role to play in my personal health so i'm still going to carry on vaping as before.

All knowledge is good

 

[zoiDman]

View attachment 796713

I (we) have known for a long time that diacetyl was in a lot of "butter/cream" flavorings, to the point that the vaping community pressured juice makers for alternatives.

I had no idea it was in so many others. For example I use a lot of Peach.

Coming from the NIH, I tend to believe them more than most other government agencies. IMHO their information is usually fairly objective and factual. Much more so than the FDA etc. For example, I am very intimate with alcoholism, and their info is spot on, and objective.

Buttery E-Cig Flavorings May Impair Lung Function

https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.1510185

Here is some Good Information about Diacetyl, Acetoin, Acetyl Propionyl, and Butanoic Acid.

Custard Notes in Flavors

You can also look up Specific TFA Flavorings and Many/Most of them have a Chemical Breakdown.

e.g. https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheet.aspx?sku_search=338691

https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx

Note: As with All Things Chemical, "Its the Does that makes the Poison".

 

[Mowgli]

Cigarette smoke has up to 700x the amount of diketones than the most diketone saturated e-juice has. Zero cases of bronchial oblitarans from smoking in ever. You'd need to work 8 hours a day in a cloud of diacetyl in a popcorn factory for years to be concerned. The danger is in the dosage.
Don't vape 5 gallons of juice a day and you'll be fine.

I had bronchitis every Winter when I smoked. Whenever I got a headcold it moved to my lungs and I got a hacking cough until Spring. Every year.
I haven't had a cold that lasted more than a few hours since I started vaping/quit smoking in early 2013. No lung involvement from a cold in 6 years compared to every single year when I smoked.

edit - I skimmed the article but didn't read every word. Did they measure the amount of diketones produced by smoking? Did they then compare the amount produced from smoking to the amount produced by vaping?

 

[Baditude]

Seems that OSHA study was from 2010. When did the "popcorn lung" and diacetyl scare occur? Haven't all the e-liquid manufacturers voluntarily stopped using diacetyl not long after?

 

[mikepetro]

Seems that OSHA study was from 2010. When did the "popcorn lung" and diacetyl scare occur? Haven't all the e-liquid manufacturers voluntarily stopped using diacetyl not long after?

The ejuices they sampled are current production. The NIH link has the nitty grity details.

 

[Baditude]

The ejuices they sampled are current production. The NIH link has the nitty grity details.

Ok, I didn't click the links. I just saw the graphic that said OSHA 2010 which made think it was from an older study.

None of the e-liquids that I vape have the below flavorings that I can tell. A commercially prepared Coffee Cake flavor may have some butter or brown sugar in it, but not as the primary flavor.

 

[mikepetro]

Cigarette smoke has up to 700x the amount of diketones than the most diketone saturated e-juice has. Zero cases of bronchial oblitarans from smoking in ever. You'd need to work 8 hours a day in a cloud of diacetyl in a popcorn factory for years to be concerned. The danger is in the dosage.
Don't vape 5 gallons of juice a day and you'll be fine.

I had bronchitis every Winter when I smoked. Whenever I got a headcold it moved to my lungs and I got a hacking cough until Spring. Every year.
I haven't had a cold that lasted more than a few hours since I started vaping/quit smoking in early 2013. No lung involvement from a cold in 6 years compared to every single year when I smoked.

edit - I skimmed the article but didn't read every word. Did they measure the amount of diketones produced by smoking? Did they then compare the amount produced from smoking to the amount produced by vaping?

To me, this isnt about smoking vs vaping (thats a no-brainer IMHO), its about diacetyl potentially being bad for you and its presence in ejuice flavorings. What surprised me was the extent in flavorings other than butter.

 

[zoiDman]

Seems that OSHA study was from 2010. When did the "popcorn lung" and diacetyl scare occur? Haven't all the e-liquid manufacturers voluntarily stopped using diacetyl not long after?

Some have. Many/Most haven't.

And of the one's who plugged the plug on Diacetyl, many just Substituted Diacetyl with Acetyl Propionyl. Which some believe accomplished Nothing but PR.

Once again, it's All About the Amount of the Substance in Question. Not if there is a Detectable Amount.

 

[Mowgli]

To me, this isnt about smoking vs vaping (thats a no-brainer IMHO), its about diacetyl potentially being bad for you and its presence in ejuice flavorings. What surprised me was the extent in flavorings other than butter.

The reason to compare it with smoking is for perspective:
There's exponentially more diketones in cig smoke than vapor
There's never been a single case of BrOb from smoking
That tells me the level of risk from diketones in vaping is infinitesimal.
YMMV

 

[Izan]

"The samples were collected until the e-cigarette cartridges or cartomizers were exhausted, determined by the lack of visible emissions in the chamber."

Cough cough...
After the vapor, comes the smoke and when it is finished super heating the coil and wick, it then, stops producing visible emissions.
The sampling procedure appears flawed.

Cheers
I

 

[smoked25years]

View attachment 796713

I (we) have known for a long time that diacetyl was in a lot of "butter/cream" flavorings, to the point that the vaping community pressured juice makers for alternatives.

Good info. Thank you for sharing it.

Coming from the NIH, I tend to believe them more than most other government agencies.

I agree. But this is not research by the NIH. It is research from a lab at a university that was published in a journal. The research was supported by National Institutes of Health, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences center grant. Labs are typically funded by grants. The journal is funded by the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences. The impact factor of the journal is 8.44. For comparison, the impact factor of the New England Journal of Medicine is 79.258. So it's a smaller journal. That doesn't discount the value of the information.

 

[smoked25years]

Buttery E-Cig Flavorings May Impair Lung Function

https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.1510185

Maybe you also meant to link this paper: Transcriptomic response of primary human airway epithelial cells to flavoring chemicals in electronic cigarettes

That was published in 2019 and discussed in the news article in your first link. Your second link is to an older paper published in 2016.

The 2019 article is published in Nature which is a top tier journal with an impact factor of 41.577. It's a big deal to publish in Nature.

Ok, I didn't click the links. I just saw the graphic that said OSHA 2010 which made think it was from an older study.

None of the e-liquids that I vape have the below flavorings that I can tell. A commercially prepared Coffee Cake flavor may have some butter or brown sugar in it, but not as the primary flavor.

The OSHA information is from 2010 and quoted in the 2016 research article. The 2019 news article is about the 2019 research article by the same authors as the 2016 study.

The findings of the more recent studies weren't discussed in the OPs post so it's a bit confusing. The way that it was posted made it look like the 2010 data was new.

 

[dreamvaper]

haven't had a cold that lasted more than a few hours

Although I'm on your side of the topic, it's biologically impossible to "fight" an infection in few hours. It takes at least 3-4 days, unless you're the wolverine

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Although I'm on your side of the topic, it's biologically impossible to "fight" an infection in few hours. It takes at least 3-4 days, unless you're the wolverine

Mowgli was referencing a cold which is a virus not an infection. Infection is bacterial and must be treated with drugs or what is known as antibiotics.



eta this may help to explain a little better.

Is Your Cold a Virus or Bacterium? How to Tell the Difference | Summit Medical Group

 

[dreamvaper]

was referencing a cold which is a virus not an infection. Infection is bacterial and must be treated with drugs or what is known as antibiotics.

this is not a med forum so let's go quick on this.
An infection occurs when germs enter a person’s body and multiply, causing illness, organ and tissue damage, or disease. Might be bacterial, viral and fungal. They're all causing an infection. Cold is usually caused by viruses, yes, but not always tho.
Non of the infections is possible to cure in few hours even with drugs.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

this is not a med forum so let's go quick on this.
An infection occurs when germs enter a person’s body and multiply, causing illness, organ and tissue damage, or disease. Might be bacterial, viral and fungal. They're all causing an infection. Cold is usually caused by viruses, yes, but not always tho.
Non of the infections is possible to cure in few hours even with drugs.

If you say so.......right ok.
You are the one challenging and why I posted an outside link to one so all could read. No need to discuss here. As you point out it not a med forum so I am done with this.

 

[Katya]

Coming from the NIH

OK, it's not coming from the NIH--it was funded by a grant from NIH, they fund all kinds of studies. It's coming from the researchers at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health in Boston. And they had me right up until "Methods: We selected 51 types of flavored e-cigarettes sold by leading e-cigarette brands and flavors we deemed were appealing to youth." And then: Conclusion: Because of the associations between diacetyl and bronchiolitis obliterans and other severe respiratory diseases observed in workers, urgent action is recommended to further evaluate this potentially widespread exposure via flavored e-cigarettes. I smell a political rat.

Not to mention that they seem to be doing the same study over and over. This is from 2015: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-12-chemicals-e-cigarette-flavors-linked-respiratory.html

I had no idea it was in so many others. For example I use a lot of Peach.

Well, Dr. F found some diacetyl in fruit flavors, too.

We don't know what kind of peach they used. I stick to FA flavorings because I'm fairly sure they don't use any diketones. Other manufacturers have added diketone free lines of flavorings. It's really easy to avoid them if one so chooses.

 

[Katya]

Seems that OSHA study was from 2010. When did the "popcorn lung" and diacetyl scare occur?

That's just a table--an old one. Dr. Farsalinos's study was conducted in 2014 (if that's what you call a "scare)

Haven't all the e-liquid manufacturers voluntarily stopped using diacetyl not long after?

Nope. Some did, some didn't, But it's much easier to find out whose liquids/flavorings do contain diketones. Prior to Dr. F's study it was almost impossible.
.