Time to draw the line - but who is on OUR side?

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twoshadetod

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Jul 7, 2009
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Ok, FDA we know isn't, but now I see the American Lung society talking sht?! We need a list of people against us and those with us. The 2 docs (God I'm lazy, someone smarter than I please ref it) sound like they are on our side.

Are there any other associations (not Talking ECA, I mean more mainstream) that aren't corrupt?

List em plox
 

cantstop

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Just in case they try attacking ecigs with 2nd hand vape, here is some interesting data showing the mentalities of what we are dealing with.



THE AIR ACCORDING TO OSHA
Though repetition has little to do with "the truth," we're repeatedly told that there's "no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke."
OSHA begs to differ.
OSHA has established PELs (Permissible Exposure Levels) for all the measurable chemicals, including the 40 alleged carcinogens, in secondhand smoke. PELs are levels of exposure for an 8-hour workday from which, according to OSHA, no harm will result.
Of course the idea of "thousands of chemicals" can itself sound spooky. Perhaps it would help to note that coffee contains over 1000 chemicals, 19 of which are known to be rat carcinogens.
-"Rodent Carcinogens: Setting Priorities" Gold Et Al., Science, 258: 261-65 (1992)
There. Feel better?
As for secondhand smoke in the air, OSHA has stated outright that:
"Field studies of environmental tobacco smoke indicate that under normal conditions, the components in tobacco smoke are diluted below existing Permissible Exposure Levels (PELS.) as referenced in the Air Contaminant Standard (29 CFR 1910.1000)...It would be very rare to find a workplace with so much smoking that any individual PEL would be exceeded."
-Letter >From Greg Watchman, Acting Sec'y, OSHA, To Leroy J Pletten, PHD, July 8, 1997
Indeed it would.
Independent health researchers have done the chemistry and the math to prove how very very rare that would be.
As you're about to see in a moment.
In 1999, comments were solicited by the government from an independent Public and Health Policy Research group, Littlewood & Fennel of Austin, Tx, on the subject of secondhand smoke.
Using EPA figures on the emissions per cigarette of everything measurable in secondhand smoke, they compared them to OSHA's PELs.
The following excerpt and chart are directly from their report and their Washington testimony:
CALCULATING THE NON-EXISTENT RISKS OF ETS
"We have taken the substances for which measurements have actually been obtained--very few, of course, because it's difficult to even find these chemicals in diffuse and diluted ETS.
"We posit a sealed, unventilated enclosure that is 20 feet square with a 9 foot ceiling clearance.
"Taking the figures for ETS yields per cigarette directly from the EPA, we calculated the number of cigarettes that would be required to reach the lowest published "danger" threshold for each of these substances. The results are actually quite amusing. In fact, it is difficult to imagine a situation where these threshold limits could be realized.
"Our chart (Table 1) illustrates each of these substances, but let me report some notable examples.
"For Benzo[a]pyrene, 222,000 cigarettes would be required to reach the lowest published "danger" threshold.
"For Acetone, 118,000 cigarettes would be required.
"Toluene would require 50,000 packs of simultaneously smoldering cigarettes.
"At the lower end of the scale-- in the case of Acetaldehyde or Hydrazine, more than 14,000 smokers would need to light up simultaneously in our little room to reach the threshold at which they might begin to pose a danger.
"For Hydroquinone, "only" 1250 cigarettes are required. Perhaps we could post a notice limiting this 20-foot square room to 300 rather tightly-packed people smoking no more than 62 packs per hour?
"Of course the moment we introduce real world factors to the room -- a door, an open window or two, or a healthy level of mechanical air exchange (remember, the room we've been talking about is sealed) achieving these levels becomes even more implausible.
"It becomes increasingly clear to us that ETS is a political, rather than scientific, scapegoat."
Chart (Table 1)
-"Toxic Toxicology" Littlewood & Fennel
Coming at OSHA from quite a different angle is litigator (and how!) John Banzhaf, founder and president of Action on Smoking and Health (ASH).
Banzhaf is on record as wanting to remove healthy children from intact homes if one of their family smokes. He also favors national smoking bans both indoors and out throughout America, and has litigation kits for sale on how to get your landlord to evict your smoking neighbors.
Banzhaf originally wanted OSHA to ban smoking in all American workplaces.
It's not even that OSHA wasn't happy to play along; it's just that--darn it -- they couldn't find the real-world science to make it credible.
So Banzhaf sued them. Suing federal agencies to get them to do what you want is, alas, a new trick in the political deck of cards. But OSHA, at least apparently, hung tough.
In response to Banzhaf's law suit they said the best they could do would be to set some official standards for permissible levels of smoking in the workplace.
Scaring Banzhaf, and Glantz and the rest of them to death.
Permissible levels? No, no. That would mean that OSHA, officially, said that smoking was permitted. That in fact, there were levels (hard to exceed, as we hope we've already shown) that were generally safe.
This so frightened Banzhaf that he dropped the case. Here are excerpts from his press release:
"ASH has agreed to dismiss its lawsuit against OSHA...to avoid serious harm to the non-smokers rights movement from adverse action OSHA had threatened to take if forced by the suit to do it....developing some hypothetical [ASH's characterization] measurement of smoke pollution that might be a better remedy than prohibiting smoking....[T]his could seriously hurt efforts to pass non-smokers' rights legislation at the state and local level...
Another major threat was that, if the agency were forced by ASH's suit to promulgate a rule regulating workplace smoking, [it] would be likely to pass a weak one.... This weak rule in turn could preempt future and possibly even existing non-smokers rights laws-- a risk no one was willing to take.
As a result of ASH's dismissal of the suit, OSHA will now withdraw its rule-making proceedings but will do so without using any of the damaging [to Anti activists] language they had threatened to include."
-ASH Nixes OSHA Suit To Prevent Harm To Movement
Looking on the bright side, Banzhaf concludes:
"We might now be even more successful in persuading states and localities to ban smoking on their own, once they no longer have OSHA rule-making to hide behind."
Once again, the Anti-Smoking Movement reveals that it's true motive is basically Prohibition (stopping smokers from smoking; making them "social outcasts") --not "safe air."
And the attitude seems to be, as Stanton Glantz says, if the science doesn't "help" you, don't do the science.
Posted by: harleyrider1978 | July 28, 2009
 
I tend to agree. The fact is, as so clearly evident with the reaction of some to the advent of the PV that the anti-smoking types are simply not prepared to give up their ability to persecute and alienate who they have deemed a degraded individual from a degraded social class. The issue is deeper than those of any potential health risks.
 

Superstargoddess

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People in 'governments' do not want money. They can get all the money they want, whenever they want.

They crave POWER.

Right, then if they don't want the money they get from taxing analogs more and more all of the time, then they should just use their POWER and totally ban them if they are so dangerous like they claim.

I still say that they want the money though. :p
 

Vocalek

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We need to get more doctors on our side. Doctors make policy for such groups as the ALA, AHA, and ACS.

And it appears as though these groups are the drivers behind the actions being taken by the FDA.


Dr. Norman H. Edelman, chief medical officer of the American Lung Association

[FONT="][U][URL="http://www.free-press-release.com/news/200905/1242400826.html"][/URL][/U]
[/FONT]
norman.edelman@sunysb.edu

In my email to him, I told my story, told him that the e-cigarette is the only thing standing between me and a tobacco cigarette, gave him the link to the Petition Site so that he could read more stories, and ended with:


"Please use your influence to explain the situation to your medical colleagues. Work toward a compromise that will assuage some of their fears while allowing us to maintain our health."



http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-life-saving-electronic-cigarettes-available



Anyone else have contact info for medical leaders?


 

Superstargoddess

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We need to get more doctors on our side. Doctors make policy for such groups as the ALA, AHA, and ACS.

And it appears as though these groups are the drivers behind the actions being taken by the FDA.


Dr. Norman H. Edelman, chief medical officer of the American Lung Association


norman.edelman@sunysb.edu

In my email to him, I told my story, told him that the e-cigarette is the only thing standing between me and a tobacco cigarette, gave him the link to the Petition Site so that he could read more stories, and ended with:


"Please use your influence to explain the situation to your medical colleagues. Work toward a compromise that will assuage some of their fears while allowing us to maintain our health."



http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-life-saving-electronic-cigarettes-available



Anyone else have contact info for medical leaders?

Once I get mine, I will be sure to let my personal doctor check it out. I know that he can't do much as far as the big picture goes, but going one doctor at a time is also helpful. :)
 

PlanetScribbles

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im not too worried about it. im thinking massive lawsuit. welcome to america!

You got that right. Massive class action lawsuit for breach of your human right to be smoke free. I can think of many law firms that would love to embark on a potential multi-billion dollar action like that.
I can see no reason whatsoever how the powers that be could possibly win such a lawsuit. For reasons that have been stated many times on here, e-cigs contain nothing that isn't contained in any number of other, FDA approved, items. Plus, they cannot possibly put forward a case that makes analogs safer than e-cigs. That would be utterly transparant bs.
 

Skeezix

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Jul 1, 2009
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Since the anitsmoker types don't bother to let science get in the way of their agenda what we need are not doctors.

We need show biz types!

We need someone like David Letterman (a cigar smoker I believe) or Jay Leno to vape on the show. And what better subject for lampooning than the FDA's report?

This would inform people and turn the tide of public opinion.

What fun!
 
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