Titanium wire, vaping and safety

[AndriaD]

Hey y'all. I'm a johnny-come-lately to this thread, but since I'm considering a TC mod, and have no desire to use nickel, I thought I should try to learn something about titanium wire, but gosh... 79 pages? I'm a fast reader, but I'd like to maybe follow some other threads at ECF instead of spending the week just reading this one!

I've seen that, for some reason, folks don't dry-burn their titanium coils -- why not? That could be fine for a new build, but what about when the coil gets gunky, no dry-burning then either? Again, why not?

Also -- since it would need to be below 1 ohm for the TC to work, how low does it really need to be? Could it be fine at .8Ω? What gauge of titanium wire would be best for building coils in the .6-.8 range? I've spent the last year+ figuring out that 29ga suits me best in kanthal, for the 1.5-1.8 coils I prefer, but I guess I have to start all over again with titanium, since I know nothing about it, nothing about TC.

I generally vape between 8w and 10w, depending on the device; I'm interested in TC because of my new love affair with Achilles RDAs, which have a very tight draw, no see-thru tank option, and while holding a great deal more than other RDAs (2-2.5ml), it's still a lot less than a kayfun; since TC would prevent firing if there is no juice, it seems like a good way to deal with my Achilles rather than uselessly checking it every hour, usually to find that it didn't need a refill. So, I'm interested in whatever temp range would approximate 8-10 watts with a 1.5-1.8Ω kanthal coil -- whichever gauge of titanium would provide that, in the .6-.8Ω range, and be fast to heat up -- the reason I never use 28ga kanthal is because it's just too slow at 1.5-1.8Ω.

Thx!
Andria

 

[awsum140]

Andria, welcome to the world of Titanos Rayonoti.

You don't dry burn titanium because you don't want to over oxidize it. A gold or blue color is fine, but grey is a definite "no-no" and throw it out. When the coil gunks you can try pulsing it at low power, dry, and use a brush to get the gunk off. You never want a titanium coil to glow cherry red or even close to that. Alternately just build a new coil (probably the safest way to go).

For you vaping style, I'd suggest 28 or 30 gauge, say seven to ten wraps on a 2.5 to 3mm mandrel. That should put you in well below one ohm. You will need higher power to "light it up" though. You will be getting a lot more vapor than you're probably accustomed to. I can't even guess what would put things in the range you asked about, that's really low for a TC device.

I run things fairly low, .2 ohm coils (dual .4's) and at twenty watts with a temperature setting of 380F. The temperature is going to be something you find by experimentation. Titanium has a different resistance curve than nickel and I'm betting your mod is built for nickel. The other thing I exactly how accurate the mod might be even with nickel.

It will take some experimentation, but it's well worth the effort!

 

[AndriaD]

Andria, welcome to the world of Titanos Rayonoti.

You don't dry burn titanium because you don't want to over oxidize it. A gold or blue color is fine, but grey is a definite "no-no" and throw it out. When the coil gunks you can try pulsing it at low power, dry, and use a brush to get the gunk off. You never want a titanium coil to glow cherry red or even close to that. Alternately just build a new coil (probably the safest way to go).

For you vaping style, I'd suggest 28 or 30 gauge, say seven to ten wraps on a 2.5 to 3mm mandrel. That should put you in well below one ohm. You will need higher power to "light it up" though. You will be getting a lot more vapor than you're probably accustomed to. I can't even guess what would put things in the range you asked about, that's really low for a TC device.

I run things fairly low, .2 ohm coils (dual .4's) and at twenty watts with a temperature setting of 380F. The temperature is going to be something you find by experimentation. Titanium has a different resistance curve than nickel and I'm betting your mod is built for nickel. The other thing I exactly how accurate the mod might be even with nickel.

It will take some experimentation, but it's well worth the effort!

Ok, thank you, that's very helpful. I'm following along with SteamEngine, and given the specs: titanium 1 (that is correct, yes?); 30ga; .8Ω; ID 7/64, it's showing me, 8 wraps, and that the "heat flux" is 144; when I entered my usual kanthal specs 29ga, 1.8, 7/64, I get a "heat flux" figure of 140, so it seems like it would actually be quite a similar vape as what I'm accustomed to? If I wanted it a bit warmer, I could turn up the power a bit, or perhaps use just 7 wraps.

The mod I'm most strongly considering is the Evic-VT, which says it will do either nickel or titanium. I read someplace that nickel can cause nausea, so I'll never be interested in using that -- plus the fact that nickel in costume jewelry always turns me black, I figure there's an allergic thing going on -- nickel is one of the most common allergens, and I have a great many allergies!

I love the look of the SX minis, but I'll need 6 lucky numbers to afford one of those!

Andria

 

[tchavei]

You don't increase power in TC, you increase temperature to get a hotter vape. Power is only how fast you want to go to the set temperature

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[awsum140]

Yes, you want Grade 1 titanium. It doesn't need to be medical grade, just Grade 1. It's probably a good idea to clean it, soap and water, isopropyl, PGA and maybe a Scotch Brite to get the production oils off. Some of it can be pretty dirty while others are pretty clean, depends on the vendor.

I switched to titanium after trying nickel and getting a heavy metallic taste from it. That surprised me because like my ears, my taste buds seem pretty dead, LOL.

 

[jks89]

Ok, thank you, that's very helpful. I'm following along with SteamEngine, and given the specs: titanium 1 (that is correct, yes?); 30ga; .8Ω; ID 7/64, it's showing me, 8 wraps, and that the "heat flux" is 144; when I entered my usual kanthal specs 29ga, 1.8, 7/64, I get a "heat flux" figure of 140, so it seems like it would actually be quite a similar vape as what I'm accustomed to? If I wanted it a bit warmer, I could turn up the power a bit, or perhaps use just 7 wraps.

The mod I'm most strongly considering is the Evic-VT, which says it will do either nickel or titanium. I read someplace that nickel can cause nausea, so I'll never be interested in using that -- plus the fact that nickel in costume jewelry always turns me black, I figure there's an allergic thing going on -- nickel is one of the most common allergens, and I have a great many allergies!

I love the look of the SX minis, but I'll need 6 lucky numbers to afford one of those!

Andria

Hey Andria!

You're correct, Titanium 1 is what you'd be doing. If/when you order Titanium wire, the biggest thing to make sure of is that it's Grade 1 titanium. There's a good number of sources. Personally I've only used Spider Silk, which is overpriced 26g wire. Next order for me will be either 28 or 30g, so I can fit a little bit more wire into my Zephyrus. The build deck in this thing reminds me of the Genie in Aladdin (Big personality, iiiiiiiiitty bitty building space).

I think you're definitely going to be using higher wattage than you're used to, but that doesn't necessarily mean more or hotter vapor, depending on temp settings and airflow.

 

[xpen]

Tony,

Not to start something and if disley says it is hollow OK. I will take a low profile on this but it sounds like the Tencel that I have but as far as hollow... well lets just say I am sceptical about that claim.

The only thing that should be different between wood chips, bananas, bamboo or sea weed rayon is the process of extrusion. Cellulose is cellulose you can make the fibers thin and long, short and fat, curly or straight but hollow... let me say Hmmm...

Now this one is going to get me in trouble with everyone (sorry Jeremy) Cotton expands when wet and rayon shrinks when wet Not now nor have I ever bought in on that one. Whatever the absorption percentage is for for rayon over cotton if the fibers absorb more it can only mean the volume has to increase. Basic physics. Now that is not saying the puffy (air space) nature of Sally's doesn't decrease when wet but that is another phenomenon. Tencel with it smooth long fibers with very little air space because of the straight fibers shows little of no compression went wet.

OK - I have hung myself out there "Fire when ready Gridley"

In my experience cotton does swell a bit, even though it requires some time for that, while rayon doesn't.
The only explanation I could come up with is aDsorption, as opposed to absorption.
What’s the Difference Between Absorption and Adsorption? | ChemistryTwig
That surfaced a long time ago in the hemp thread about ramie, if I remember correctly.
Hey Jeremy, rayon just about killed anything else organic, uh? [emoji57]
Sorry about the slight off-topic, but titanos rayonati..

 

[roxynoodle]

hey @roxynoodle you feeling better?!?!

Better than I was . Thanks for asking.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

You don't increase power in TC, you increase temperature to get a hotter vape. Power is only how fast you want to go to the set temperature

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

well you know some mods overshoot a tad so if you set really high power, you can overheat a bit...but yeah you are right of course!!!!

 

[TheotherSteveS]

what happened to the Stealthvape ti wire?? Still no sign of it?!?

 

[tchavei]

what happened to the Stealthvape ti wire?? Still no sign of it?!?

I should have news by the end of the week and if everything goes well, real on hand feedback next week.

Oh, and yes. 'medical grade' has a 15%-30% increase in retail value but somebody was picky about it just as with cleaning and vacuum annealing.

I hope it's worth it after all the pickering lol.




Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[druckle]

I should have news by the end of the week and if everything goes well, real on hand feedback next week.

Oh, and yes. 'medical grade' has a 15%-30% increase in retail value but somebody was picky about it just as with cleaning and vacuum annealing.

I hope it's worth it after all the pickering lol.




Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

What does "medical grade" Grade 1 titanium wire mean I wonder? The only thing I can think of that Grade 1 wire could be used for in the body is for some "stitching" together of soft tissues like tendons etc where a persistent suture is necessary or desirable. Other stronger titanium alloys are generally necessary for medical plates/screws/rods etc. I think. I'm not sure what other use there could be for Grade 1 titanium wire in medicine.

I don't even know if there's a defining agency to bestow the title "medical grade".

Duane

 

[Kwtony]

Ive used this Ti wire with great results

 

[2legsshrt]

From what I heard gas levels in medical grade are slightly stricter then in non medical grade1.

 

[AndriaD]

So, what I've gleaned so far: 30ga should suit; I've looked online and found a place called unkamen on Etsy, who will sell 50' of 30ga for 9.95; when I get it, before using in a coil, I should wash it in soapy water, then wipe with alcohol... yes?

Another question occurs to me. How does it last, compared to kanthal? I can get months out of a kanthal coil, but then I dry-burn it about every 2-4 days -- my juice is a heavy gunker. How would the titanium hold up to that sort of use, since dry-burning it is a bad idea?

Thx y'all!
Andria

 

[druckle]

OK..Google is my friend.
The FDA and ASTM have a specification for Unalloyed Titanium with respect to Medical Grade.
ASTM F67 - 13 Standard Specification for Unalloyed Titanium, for Surgical Implant Applications (UNS R50250, UNS R50400, UNS R50550, UNS R50700)
For a measly $45 one can see that specification.
I'm NOT that curious.




Duane

 

[tchavei]

OK..Google is my friend.
The FDA and ASTM have a specification for Unalloyed Titanium with respect to Medical Grade.
ASTM F67 - 13 Standard Specification for Unalloyed Titanium, for Surgical Implant Applications (UNS R50250, UNS R50400, UNS R50550, UNS R50700)
For a measly $45 one can see that specification.
I'm NOT that curious.




Duane

Hahaha

Let me check if my university has an agreement with those guys. I'll be back in 10 minutes.

Regardless, all I know (and specially anyone buying Ti grade 1 in large quantities) is that if the wire has the word 'medical' anywhere on it, it costs way more. Why I have no clue. What differences there are? Don't know.

I do know that a Ti screw for 'medical' use costs 500$ while a non medical costs less than half.

Maybe individual batches are somehow tested and the price tag reflects those tests?

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[tchavei]

Back.

No, no agreement with those guys BUT I did find 635 articles about unalloyed Ti at my University database. Looking through them as I write this.

Be right back

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[vapealone]

Back.

No, no agreement with those guys BUT I did find 635 articles about unalloyed Ti at my University database. Looking through them as I write this.

Be right back

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

Hi Tony,
How bout this paper Electrical resistivity of titanium in the temperature range from 290 to 1800 K - Springer
I could kill to look into it

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[jks89]

What does "medical grade" Grade 1 titanium wire mean I wonder? The only thing I can think of that Grade 1 wire could be used for in the body is for some "stitching" together of soft tissues like tendons etc where a persistent suture is necessary or desirable. Other stronger titanium alloys are generally necessary for medical plates/screws/rods etc. I think. I'm not sure what other use there could be for Grade 1 titanium wire in medicine.

I don't even know if there's a defining agency to bestow the title "medical grade".

Duane

Maybe it's not necessarily the WIRE that would be used medically, but that level of titanium? I don't really know much about uses of titanium in the medical field, let alone in general, but it could be a classification that's used along with wire purely to make it more appealing to the customer. I'm sure Tony will have some more info for us soon though, he's good like that.

So, what I've gleaned so far: 30ga should suit; I've looked online and found a place called unkamen on Etsy, who will sell 50' of 30ga for 9.95; when I get it, before using in a coil, I should wash it in soapy water, then wipe with alcohol... yes?

Another question occurs to me. How does it last, compared to kanthal? I can get months out of a kanthal coil, but then I dry-burn it about every 2-4 days -- my juice is a heavy gunker. How would the titanium hold up to that sort of use, since dry-burning it is a bad idea?

Thx y'all!
Andria

That name seems familiar, I'm pretty sure I've seen several references to that Etsy supplier with good results. As far as cleaning, so far I've just wrapped a new coil when I needed to, but others have mentioned getting it wet [heh heh...] and lightly scrubbing with a tooth brush.