To shake or not to shake?!?! #flavorproblems

[VlKlNGS]

Hello World,

I'm back! And I could use you help/advice with another problem I have, which would be lovely if I could solve it(though I doubt it) before my first rda setup arrives. So we have a couple of months to go back and forth, loool.

Before I describe my problem please keep in mind 2 things:

a) this has happened so far with every device I've used! If you want a list of the devices let me know and I'll be glad to offer it, I just don't think it's gonna help much if you go "ah yeah, device X sucks for flavor" since it happens across the board;(At least I think so... I'd like to say that it's gotten worse with the last device? But I really don't trust my memory on this one... take it with a couple of grains of salt.)

b) this also happens to me with pretty much every juice, doesn't matter if it's premade juice, base and flavor that I mix myself, cheap, expensive, "premium", extra flavor, regular flavor, etc.


So, what's my deal? Once I buy a juice I get to enjoy one, maybe two(three if I'm really lucky and usually only with extra flavor juices) tanks before the flavor becomes a shadow of it's former self or disappears almost completely...

Best I can tell it's because of all the shaking I have to do every time before I refill my tank. But this looks like a double edged sword to me, on one side if you don't shake the ingredients won't be evenly distributed, on the other side if you do shake you lose your flavor. So I'm f***ed eighter way.... right?
(another thing that really pisses me off is all the sites that talk about shaking your juice, not a single one of them mentions how long the ingredients stay togheter after shaking; who knows, maybe if I decide to use the same juice multiple times a day I don't need to shake it again if I just shook it 8 hours or so ago?....)

But what do I know. So, I'm gonna give you below my entire ritual(focusing on premade juice since that's what I use mostly, rarely do I DIY) and you tell me what you think the problem might be and what I should try:

- first thing I do with a new juice is dump it from those awful irritatingly hard to open bottles into these awesome bottles from Natura Shake which I really think should be the industry standard!

- then I add nicotine, close the bottle, shake well, open just the tip and fill my tank;

- vape until the volume of the liquid reaches the cotton holes of the coil. At this point I have 2 choices. I usually rock 3 juices at the same time to try and prevent vapers tongue and boredom.
So choice numero uno I feel like I want more of the same juice, I take the bottle, shake well again, then fill my tank up.
Choice dos I want a different juice, so I take the bottle of the juice that's already in the tank, open it up and pour the left over juice from the tank back into the bottle[I do this cause I can't afford to trow away almost 150ml per month(yeah I did the math) and cause I don't like mixing juices], then take a different bottle, shake it well, fill the tank, repeat ad nauseam.

- I usually go through 2 tanks a day(3 in the more stressful days). Should also point out that I drink a lot of water, always have, I'm the kind of guy that drinks about 6-8 liters or more per day. Soooo.... not sure if dehydration still applies at this point, but who knows.


Think that's enough wall of text for now, hope I didn't miss anything. Thoughts, suggestions, a chant or a spell perhaps?

P.S. Think I should also mention that I'm most likely(I mean I still have to actually go to some doctors and run some tests but with my "luck" I'm sure what the results are gonna be) allergic to PG. So far I've just accepted this fact and the rashes and stuff, not sure if that could affect the taste buds as well, figured I'd mention it just in case... I'd like to be able to tell you if the flavor situation has gotten worse over time(which might point to prolonged exposure being the reason) but I don't trust my memory enough, sorry.

P.S.S. In an attempt to avoid some of the posts from my other threads, just because I ask for your advice and I do I do very much appreciate it and thank you for it, that doesn't mean I'm gonna agree with or be willing to do everything you suggest. For example if your answer is "get higher quality e juices", well, higher quality e juice usually comes with a higher quality price tag... And since one of the 3 main reasons(for me) to go from smoking to vaping is that it's much cheaper, thanks, but nope. Not willing to do that, wanna keep things on the cheaper side.

 

[Letitia]

First mistake, adding unused juice back into fresh juice bottle. Start a dump bottle.
Second mistake, juice only needs shaken occasionally. Couple times a week will do.
On a side note, don't leave the cap off to breathe the juice (which is rarely needed to begin with) over 30m. Any longer and you are just losing flavor molecules.

 

[VlKlNGS]

Good, good, that I can actually do, thank you. Any other suggestions guys? For example how strong do the shakes need to be? I underlined and bolded all the "well" words in my first post for a reason, I do fairly strong/fast/energetic shakes.

P.S. Not sure if this helps @Letitia since I'm not from the US, but I signed the petition in your signature anyway. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[IDJoel]

Some random thoughts, in no particular order:
-- After the initial shake (to combine nicotine with rest of ingredients); is of limited benefit. There are a very small minority of flavor concentrates, that like to settle out, or stratify... but these are truly the exception. (Big temperature changes; hot to cold, and cold to hot, can exacerbate this. But, if the e-liquid is (for the most part) kept at room temp, it should not be a significant issue.) I agree with Letitia; that a couple of time a week, is plenty.

-- I also agree with Letitia; that "breathing" an e-liquid, can often be as (more?) damaging, as it may be helpful. Only try "breathing" a mix, when nothing else works.

-- Heat is an e-liquid's enemy. High temperatures (hot cars, close proximity to heaters and other heat sources) can "cook off" more delicate flavor molecules. When storing e-liquids; try to keep temperatures at/near room temp.

-- Make sure you are fully saturating your wick before you begin vaping. Factory-made drop-in coils often have extremely dense packed wicking material, and it can take as much as 5-10 minutes to become completely saturated (DIY coil builds are less susceptible, and more accessible, but still need to be completely soaked). Wicks, that are not fully saturated, can provide a couple of satisfactory hits, and then go weak to nonexistent flavor. It can also burn the wicking, and/or sear the liquid onto the wire... rendering the coil and wick ruined (the dreaded "dry hit"). Never skimp on priming a new coil head.

-- Try not to chain vape (taking one hit right after another). Depending on how densely pack the wicking is, and the viscosity of the liquid, it can take the wick a bit to re-saturate. If flavor disappears; try leaving the device alone for a minute, and let the wicking recover. Repeatedly taking dry, or almost dry hits, can dramatically reduce the live of your coils.

-- If you are using a regulated device; try lowering (or raising) the power/temperature setting, in small increments. Settings that are often good for creating "clouds," are not always the best for creating flavor. High power can make some awesome clouds; but it can also destroy the flavor molecules before you have a chance to taste them. Likewise, if the power/temp is too low, the flavors may not be fully atomized. Different e-liquids, and different flavor profiles, often have different "optimal" settings.

-- Try adjusting your airflow (if the atty permits such adjustments). Too much air can dilute the flavor molecules and make the flavor taste weak.
Airflow also affects temperature. A person who takes big, voluminous pulls, may get a cooler vape; than a person who takes shallow, gentle pulls... when vaping at the same power setting.

-- Check, and change, your coils often. This is the one I am guilty of most often. I hate rebuilding coils so I tend to push it to extremes. But, as a coil (and/or wick) gunks up, both flavor and vapor production fall off. Some e-liquid mixtures allow days to pass. While others, one is lucky to get a single day out of the build. (Again, excessive heat seems to accelerate this process.)

I don't know if any, or a combination, of these can apply to your own personal situation. But, I have found all of them to impact my own vaping experience, at one time or another.

For example how strong do the shakes need to be? I underlined and bolded all the "well" words in my first post for a reason, I do fairly strong/fast/energetic shakes.

In a closed bottle, with limited air space (aka "headroom"), there is only a finite amount of potential flavor loss. The existing air can only absorb so much and it becomes saturated... further flavor loss stops. The greater the air volume, the greater potential for flavor loss. In an open container, or each time a bottle is opened (and fresh air is exchanged), additional flavor loss can occur.

But, in a closed, nearly full bottle... I say, shake to your heart's content. For the initial shake; I tend to shake until the liquid is full of evenly dispersed tiny bubbles. For subsequent shaking; a quick 5 second shake is all it gets.

 

[SupplyDaddy]

Try picking up a couple more systems. Use each system for a specific eliquid.

 

[CagedSpam]

In a perfect world we would all have a device or specifically an atomizer for every flavor/mix.

Those drop in coils seem to hold onto flavors for a long time and might throw the taste off if you are switching juices frequently.

 

[Plumes.91]

shake it once, that's fine. shake it twice.. that's okay.
shake it three times...

 

[gerrymi]

VIKINGS...you appear to be taking this vaping thing somewhat seriously...

ME...I've never transferred eliquid to another bottle...

I hardly ever shake a bottle...(but have turned one upside down and back a couple times before refilling a tank)…

When changing from one flavor to another...(which I do on most refills)...I just add Flavor B to what's left of Flavor A in the tank...

In 5+ years...I've never bought the same flavor twice...



..

 

[VlKlNGS]

Lot's of info @IDJoel , thanks. Some of it I was already doing, some I'll try to incorporate, and some just ain't for me.

Heck no, that would not be a perfect world for me @CagedSpam ! I wouldn't even have room for so many devices, let alone the price tag!
I'm fine with just rocking 2 at any given time, one for indoors and one for outdoors.

Ummm, YEAH I'm taking it seriously @gerrymi , I love it! Plus I have a tendency to overthink things(boy you have no idea), but hey, love me for what I am.

In 5+ years...I've never bought the same flavor twice...

Don't see how that's possible mate, I think your memory might be playing tricks on you. Or maybe you're just making a joke/point that I'm not getting.
Let alone the fact that that would mean you never found a flavor that you really liked so as to warrant multiple purchases, which would be sad; but also(granted I wasn't vaping myself back then) from what I understand from people that did vape(or tried to) at the time, didn't they used to have just like 5-10 flavors back then as opposed to the dozens(or more) that we have now? So I don't see how you could avoid buying the same one multiple times.

 

[Bunnykiller]

just maybeeee... you are more prone to vapers tounge than others... constant exposure to a smell/taste, the brain will shut down that section of sensory receptors ( nerves) to allow a continued sensitivity to all the other smells/tastes that were being muted do to the consistant usage of said 1 flavor/aroma. This is why people who work at the sewer plant dont smell what they are working around.

 

[VlKlNGS]

Could be @Bunnykiller , but like I said in the main post that's why I usually use at least 3 different juices at the same time and almost never vape 2 tanks in a row of the same stuff, to try and prevent it.

If that was the actual reason and what I'm already doing ain't enough.... I don't see what else I could do...
So no offence but I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed that you're wrong big time on this one.

From the great wise google I also tried smelling coffee roast for a while, didn't seem to do anything. And another website recommended eating ginger, supposed to "reset" the taste buds. Haven't gotten around to that one yet.

 

[CagedSpam]

Theory: Ethyl Maltol (EM) is a component of many flavorings. If too much EM is in a mix taste goes bland. If mixing juices with EM maybe a threshold is crossed resulting in muted flavor.

GL

 

[gerrymi]

So I don't see how you could avoid buying the same one multiple times.

Well...actually...new sites are popping up all the time...with better and better flavors...at better and better prices...

So I've bought ejuices over the past 5+ years from more sites than I can even remember...

My current favorite site...2-60ml. for $15 or 2-120ml. for $25...has so many flavors that I don't really have the time to go through and count...

Cheap Vape Juice - Cheap E Juice 120mL and 60mL and Wholesale Vape Juice | LNW

..

 

[VlKlNGS]

Loool, ok. Keep it up then I guess? And more power to you @gerrymi

P.S. Hahaha, I like how that site thinks that is cheap. Well, I suppose it might be for some, for me cheap is like 3 bucks for 30ml, or 8 bucks for 100ml.

 

[Jwaterski]

Just to be clear, you are buying, or have bought from several different vendors? If not, start. You don't have to buy the pricey stuff to get good flavor, but some vendors, cheap or pricey, are better than others. I tend to burn out on any vendor after a while no mater how good they started out, so I buy from different ones pretty frequently. There is the risk of getting some weak flavor's, and some you just don't like. Have you tried unflavored at all? Some people enjoy that all the time, some use it to kind of cleanse the pallet and get a fresh start.

 

[Vapedog]

I give my juice a shake before a refill. Got into the habit doing that as some do separate within hours. Citrus mixes, Licorice, Cola will do so. I find doing it has no adverse effect on the juice and ensures its all evenly mixed going into my tank. A 100ml bottle of my mix will get used within 1 to 2 weeks during rotation and I can't see how shaking it will decrease flavour in such a short time frame. Bottles closed, air tight, gets shaken, where can the flavour possibly go to? Scientifically maybe molecules after a bazzillion shakes over a year maybe get affected but in the time im using my mix I don't believe it has any effect at all.

 

[newyork13]

I think what @Letitia said was key.
When you're vaping in a tank, the liquid cooks due to the heating from the coil. It gradually loses some of the freshness and taste as this happens. So, when you're pouring the used (heated and cooked juice from the tank) back into the original bottle, you're diluting the fresh and new taste with a cooked and maybe burnt taste. No wonder you've lost flavor!
To keep things on the cheap side you can diy. It's much cheaper. But, there's more work involved, I grant you that.

 

[englishmick]

I shake my juice after I mix it but never shake it again after that. I didn't realise people did that. Maybe I should give it a try. I have no idea what shaking regularly does to a juice, for good or bad.

I've got 9 flavors, each in a different tank. As a rule I can't use one flavor for too long or I can't taste it any more, so I keep switching. Part of your problem might be getting flavors mixed up together when you change the juice in a tank. They do say that if a juice is too complicated, with too many flavors, it gets hard for your tasting circuits to figure it out. Maybe that's what happens when you add a new juice to a tank that has traces of a different juice in it.

One suggestion. When I start having a tasting problem I switch over to a strong menthol flavored juice for a while. I can always taste that. Then when I go back to other juices I can taste them again.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Should also point out that I drink a lot of water, always have, I'm the kind of guy that drinks about 6-8 liters or more per day. Soooo.... not sure if dehydration still applies at this point, but who knows.

This stuck out to me.

My sister-in-law told me about her recent blood work results. Her doctor asked her how much water she drank daily. She told her approximately 8 glasses (16 fluid ounces p/glass) per day which comes out to 3.7 liters. The doc said that's too much.

Her doctor told her that drinking too much water can be fatal.

WHAT??? Yes, that was my initial reaction too.

I couldn't believe this when my sis-in-law told me because I was under the impression that drinking a good amount of water was fine and healthy. She said the doctor explained the hows and whys but she couldn't remember ALL the details (it always pays to have someone with you and she didn't). She remembered hyponatremia. Her doctor said to drink around eight 8-ounce glasses or 64 ounces total (about 2 liters).

You said you drink up to 8 liters which is 2.11338 US liquid gallons. That really is a lot.

Google "drinking too much water can kill you" or hyponatremia.

Brings to mind the inscription at the Greek temple of Apollo at Delphi "Meden Agan" translated to "nothing in excess". Or everything in moderation.

Don't shoot the messenger! I'm just relaying the message.

 

[DLKnives]

Her doctor told her that drinking too much water can be fatal.

The last time I was in the ER they were asking me about how much liquids I drink per day and explained that it can strip you of needed vitamins and I think other stuff too. It can definitely make you sick so the advice to google it is good.