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Tobacco Free Nicotine -- your thoughts

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by chellie, Aug 28, 2018.

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  1. chellie

    chellie Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 24, 2014
    I came across this from Eightvape - seems interesting. I listed the source link at the end.

    Your thoughts ---

    Is Tobacco Free Nicotine The Future of All E-Juice?

    When you think of vaping, most vapers don’t have tobacco cross their minds too much, unless they’re thinking of how they’re inhaling none of it compared to inhaling cigarettes. Tobacco, as we know, is the ingredient known to be the leading cause of cancer in cigarettes smokers, in addition to the hundreds of harmful chemicals added to the tobacco.

    Most of the time nicotine found in E-Juices is extracted from the tobacco plant (sometimes other plants like potatoes, tomatoes, or eggplants. But tobacco is richer in nicotine than these by a considerable amount). This makes it easier for the Food and Drug Administration to lump vaping and cigarettes into the same category and implement strict laws on the smoking alternative.

    Another downfall of tobacco plant nicotine extraction, is that E-Juice companies are still contributing to the tobacco industry, keeping it alive and well and in part keeping the cigarette industry afloat as it continues to wreak dangerous effects on its users. For most vapers, it's hard to let that fact go. For me, I find it hard to cope with the idea of this outdated and dangerous means of consuming nicotine still being a leading industry.

    I know many independent farmers rely on tobacco farming, but it’s irksome that most E-Juice companies still affiliate themselves with tobacco, and not leave them to the cigarette industry. This would help the FDA to see that vaping is a separate entity, independent from all tobacco use and all tobacco products.

    This is why I shop for tobacco free nicotine as much as I possibly can. And you can too by reading this article, I'll be including links to many delicious ones we sell here on EightVape, just click the picture.

    What is tobacco free nicotine?
    Most of you already know, but when I began vaping I had no idea this innovation had been discovered. And it’s pretty remarkable to look into. It’s amazing how far technology and science has come, and it’s amazing to think that the vaping industry has had a hand in that.

    Tobacco free nicotine (TFN) is not extracted from any plant whatsoever. Instead it is man made, or synthetic, and it’s constructed on a micro molecular scale, exactly replicating the nicotine molecule. TFN is just like naturally occurring nicotine in every way and it is not ridiculously more expensive to create than it is to extract.

    Ron Tully of Next Generation Labs (a leading lab in developing TFN as well as analogues for the treatment of brain disorders like Parkinson, Alzheimer, ADHD, and epilepsy) explains how initially the cost for a liter of TFN was $125,000, but now it is only $5,000 a liter. Tobacco typically sits at $4,000 a liter. But with the benefit and popularity of TFN, companies can expect great returns to make up for this in rising demands of TFN E-Juices.

    Being a veteran of the tobacco industry Tully says TFN, “presents the advantages over natural extract of being odorless, tasteless and is very pure.”

    More of Next Generation Lab’s reasoning for pushing TFN to E-Juice companies:

    • It is devoid of many of the impurities that tobacco derived nicotine contains, which in some cases could be using kerosene to extract nicotine which may not fully clear out during purification.
    • It is virtually tasteless and odorless, providing a pureer flavor and less of a need for added sweeteners of artificial flavors.
    • All the while, TFN provides the same biological impact as tobacco derived nicotine.
    So why don’t all Vape Juice Companies use TFN?
    Knowing quite well what critics of the vaping industry has to say about it as a whole, Tully has developed a marketing strategy to shine TFN in an even more positive light. “We’re looking for companies that are marketing responsibly, don’t use any potential trademark infringement, don’t have cartoons on the outside, exhibit responsibly, and don’t give out free samples,” says Tully, who is a member of SFATA (Smoke Free Alternative Trade Association).

    As for the question of should all E-Juices be tobacco free right now, perhaps they should. Or perhaps it’s best they wait. Whether it’s due to wanting to save money or save their skin, most companies now are still cautious to adapt TFN into their recipes due to how it’s unclear how it could affect their already loved products. Many companies implement all new recipes and lines to their existing brand, while others are still tinkering with the flavors they have and its chemical relationship with TFN in terms of flavor, function, and vapor production.

    There could be more discoveries ahead and many companies know this, and for a select few others, the future is now.

    Can’t E-Juice companies produce their own TFN?

    TFN is a patent pending chemical. Even pharmaceutical companies are looking toward Next Generation Labs and their chemical creation. As nicotine binds to certain receptors in the brain, they are looking at its effects on neurological diseases such as Parkinson's, ADHD, Alzheimer's, and epilepsy. However Next Generation Labs is steps ahead in this venture.

    Nicotine is though a chemical with a negative effect on fetuses and children. It also has an effect on regular users, as it is an addictive chemical, synthetic or not.

    Science never stops, and it certainly doesn’t stop at vaping. Technology and chemistry come together in this industry more often than not. Many times by vapers themselves, educating themselves on the different results one gets combining different juices with different devices and wattage/voltage settings, and coil combinations and innovations. The vaping world and the world as a whole is endless in possibilities and it’s nice to know that we in the vaping community are a part of it all the time, whether we recognize it or not.


    Is Tobacco Free Nicotine The Future of All E-Juice?
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  2. Jebbn

    Jebbn Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 2, 2018
    thanks for a new thing to study up on.
    Synthetic alcohol is something that I find interesting also, not because I drink but because of the ramifications to industry and environment.
    I regard vaping as a disruptive industry and synthetic nicotine seems to be a perfect example of the disruptive nature of it.
    • Agree Agree x 2
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    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. Fredman1

    Fredman1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 27, 2017
    New Zealand
    I got no problem with a sinthetic nicotine, but if they start fiddling with NET liquids, i'll be up in arms. That is the only reason why I vape.
    • Like Like x 3
  4. untar

    untar Vaping Master

    Feb 7, 2018
    Well, it is not as new as portrayed, the first synthesis of nicotine was some time around 1900.
    Then, contrary to what is said, it is more complicated and more expensive than suggested to synthesize nicotine from scratch (it's what my chemist brother says and I believe him).
    The prices also don't make sense, I have never seen a liter of pure nicotine extract cost $4000 (just calculating what 1l of 100mg/ml then would have to cost shows that can't possibly be the case, I can see offers for as little as $120 for 1l of the pure 1000mg/ml stuff), so there seems to be a serious error on the researcher's part regarding the finances.
    The price of $5000 for 1l of 1000mg/ml synthetic nicotine however seems to be accurate (eg as advertised on next generation labs), that makes it almost 50 times more expensive (in the worst case), directly contradicting what the article wants to say. I know eg MilkMan have normally priced TFN liquids but they either must have an incredible deal or they're investing in a potential future.

    What is true though is that the price has come down considerably, it still isn't anywhere near what extracted nic costs. Don't expect to be buying a lot of it in the near future though, the price still is far too high to be an affordable alternative to plant extract at the moment.

    To think the FDA would not find a way to regulate that as well (it's the food and drug administration) is highly optimistic, if synth nic takes off in a big way I wouldn't expect nothing at all to happen on the regulatory side just because it isn't tobacco. There's many other things that have restrictions placed on them that aren't tobacco.
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  5. Zakillah

    Zakillah Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2015
    Yes, this. Too expansive.

    Also I think you get halve (S) and halve (R)-Nicotine when synthesised; and only one of them is biologically active.
    • Like Like x 4
  6. chellie

    chellie Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 24, 2014
    I agree the pricing is waaaaay off.
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. score69

    score69 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 28, 2015
    Athens, GA, USA
    Yeah, just because it's synthetic, it will NOT stop the FDA from regulating it as well. Look at caffeine powder. You used to be able to purchase it in huge quantities dirt cheap. That is no longer the case.

    This sounds to me like they are trying to label TFN as a non-tobacco product. True, it is. However, the FDA will regulate nicotine itself as well if people use this as a workaround. It will likely happen very quickly if they decide to do so. Many chemicals, pesticides, etc are restricted and/or regulated. This will be no different.

    If it were price competitive and offered a favorable stability over tobacco extracted nicotine it might be worthwhile to me.

    The FDA will regulate vaping to protect Big Tobacco's interests, not the health and safely of consumers. There are many circumstances where substances in plant material are legal, but pure extracted or synthetic versions are not. If this becomes popular, it will be quickly regulated the same or more strictly than extracted nicotine.
    • Like Like x 2
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  8. Foggy Road

    Foggy Road Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2015
    If the FDA would deem a man made electronic device as a tobacco product how can anyone think they would hesitate for a split second to deem man made nicotine the same?
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    Exactly. Go back to 2009/2010 and Judge Leon's ruling in Sottera. The FDA tried to ban vaping as an "unapproved drug delivery system". What saved the industry was the fact that the nic in vapes was derived from tobacco and the court said: It's not a drug, it's a tobacco product. Using synthetic nicotine brings it right back to being an unapproved drug delivery system, which is far easier for them to ban outright.
    • Agree Agree x 4
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  10. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    I guess I could see the rationale, as far as purity of the product as compared to nicotine EXTRACTED from the plant (although then again the extraction process is probably causing "grown" tobacco to be rather pure in and of itself.

    I also tend to be a tad bit "suspicious" of "synthetics" at least when they are new, etc. I mean, some just don't really perform as advertised.

    I also don't necessarily see a reason to put tobacco growers out of business, quite honestly. If the rate of smoking continues to drop, well, vaping is going to be the source of revenue for tobacco growers.

    IDK a bit overhyped but interesting nevertheless, etc.

    • Like Like x 3
  11. Beamslider

    Beamslider Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 29, 2017
    San Francisco
    I'll stick with plant based. Synthetic isn't to my liking. Just a couple of atoms in different places and it would be a different substance altogether
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Anise

    Anise Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    May 11, 2016
    Southern Louisiana USA
    I don't trust synthetics. My blood pressure medicine was just recalled because the synthetic in it caused cancer.
    Anyway, if we can see this as a way around the government controlling vaping so can they. Someone in the government is already working on a way to control this if it becomes mainstream. Big Tobacco can't afford for the government to ignore it.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. untar

    untar Vaping Master

    Feb 7, 2018
    Well, even natural nicotine is "synthetic", it doesn't just magically appear inside the plant, there's little chemical labs in the cells :p
    The only potential concern I'd have is the nature of impurities left over but only because I don't know what those are in synth nic (if it's 99.9% pure then the ratio in a liquid would be really low anyways).
    • Like Like x 2
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