Told to stop having a vape

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generic mutant

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...I'm yet to hear a good reason, or even okay reason, for not being allowed to vape in a location, even in the dialogue of this thread. Best response so far on this thread is in vein of 'because I said so.'...

The answer is the same in every thread you say this in: because it annoys / disturbs people.

There is no rational reason why I can't shop for my vegetables completely naked. I doubt it'd spread significantly more disease than wearing clothes (as long as I'm breathing and touching things with my hands anyway).

That doesn't make it OK. Social norms matter. Confronting them should be done carefully, when the possible cost is high.
 

CommaHolly

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The answer is the same in every thread you say this in: because it annoys / disturbs people.

There is no rational reason why I can't shop for my vegetables completely naked. I doubt it'd spread significantly more disease than wearing clothes (as long as I'm breathing and touching things with my hands anyway).

That doesn't make it OK. Social norms matter. Confronting them should be done carefully, when the possible cost is high.


excellent point.
 

Jman8

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The answer is the same in every thread you say this in: because it annoys / disturbs people.

I have not encountered evidence of it disturbing / annoying people. I have vaped around enough non vapers to see that you are making a false blanket statement. It really does not support your take on this like I think you would like it to.

There is no rational reason why I can't shop for my vegetables completely naked. I doubt it'd spread significantly more disease than wearing clothes (as long as I'm breathing and touching things with my hands anyway).

That doesn't make it OK. Social norms matter. Confronting them should be done carefully, when the possible cost is high.

Social norm with vaping, thus far (or at least until around mid point of 2013), was that vaping was okay in public. That is changing, and is changing into vaping is now a filthy action / public nuisance. Do vapers buy this? Honestly, those of you who are not into public vaping, do you think of your own vaping as a filthy behavior?

Or it is a dangerous behavior. According to some articles, it is highly dangerous. Battery could explode at any moment, and I heard one did at some point, therefore it is clearly dangerous. Not to mention that no one anywhere on this planet knows what is in this liquid. It is impossible to know what's in there, and we might have to wait another 30 years until science can determine that. For now, let's just assume that it is highly dangerous and remember that at any moment, your device could explode.

Plus nicotine is highly addictive. I heard if you inhale second hand vapor, you'll be addicted for life. That's how addictive it is.

^ All of this ^ is stuff that vaping community is supporting by avoiding vaping in public like it is a plague. Yes, social norms do matter, and part of vaping community is seeking to make public vaping an abnormal behavior. One that is to be shamed and frowned upon. Sorry, but I'm not into playing those reindeer games and feeling the confrontation against 'what is good and right in society' needs to start here with vaping community being called out on lies it is either willing to accept or pass along.
 

generic mutant

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I have encountered people who don't want me to vape near them. I haven't annoyed anyone with it to my knowledge, because if someone is sitting in close proximity to me I'll ask them if they mind first. It's really that simple.

And no, I don't refuse to do it in public. I simply do it outside, or inside where *I've asked* and been told it's OK.

There are quite a few pubs where non-vapers are exposed to vaping here. Quite a few people ask about it, and have no problem with it. But assuming it has the potential to annoy people is no more an internalisation of the idea that it's bad than assuming that playing loud music on a bus has the potential to annoy people is an internalisation of the idea that music is bad: it's just manners.
 

Jman8

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I have encountered people who don't want me to vape near them. I haven't annoyed anyone with it to my knowledge, because if someone is sitting in close proximity to me I'll ask them if they mind first. It's really that simple.

No one, but own kids, was around OP of this thread when OP chose to do it in public. Therefore, you are presumably one that would not see it as possible annoyance in situation that OP chose to do it in. If I am mistaken about this, I'm sure you'll let me know.

But assuming it has the potential to annoy people is no more an internalisation of the idea that it's bad than assuming that playing loud music on a bus has the potential to annoy people is an internalisation of the idea that music is bad: it's just manners.

Again, no one was around OP of this thread when OP chose to do it. I'm guessing, and actually feeling very confident in saying this, that us respectful vapers who vape in public aren't doing it in close proximity to others. Therefore, that aspect of public vaping ought to be acceptable among you and hopefully all vapers. But in public situations where there is chance for close proximity, then asking first seems like good way to go, in terms of manners.

There is more to say on that last point, but honestly, it'd be nice just to get agreement on what is so far being conveyed as you've managed to change goal posts and I feel I just about scored a touch down with what you chose to respond with. Am for sure in the red zone and wanting to see what your defense is willing to put on the field in response to what I've written here.
 

generic mutant

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Whether you're near anyone or not, it's just kinda tacky. It smacks of 'trying to get away with it'.

How many supermarkets have you been in that have accepted people vaping?

It seems pretty self-evident that the reason people don't ask is because they know what the answer is already. You're going to annoy the other customers if they see / smell you, and the staff with the sheer presumptuousness of it.

Not really any need to force them to ask you to stop, any more than there would be for skateboarding, or drinking booze, or singing loudly. Just wait till you get outside.
 

Racehorse

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I'd make an appointment with you and determine if it is ignorance as to why you are disallowing it.

Lots of double standards being unveiled here.

It's "ignorance" not to allow vaping? I thought it was FREEDOM. :confused:

Private property rights....people have the freedom to not allow stuff on their private property/businesses.

Freeom to vape is considered righteous, but others who exercise their freedoms are just ignorant? I see.

Just like the cry-baby comment before, which is also "flippable" : Not allowing vaping is being a crybaby, but not being able to vape and complaining about it isn't being a crybaby.

Then somebody said "know your enemies". It has taken me a lifetime to make 1 real enemy. If I collected them the way its been suggested here, I"d have thousands! (not something I want in my life).

Then we have the suggestions about lying.......

As a vaper, none of those expressed attitudes are things I can get behind. Sorry. :(
 

Jman8

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Lots of double standards being unveiled here.

It's "ignorance" not to allow vaping? I thought it was FREEDOM. :confused:

Private property rights....people have the freedom to not allow stuff on their private property/businesses.

Freeom to vape is considered righteous, but others who exercise their freedoms are just ignorant? I see.

I'll do my best to address your sound bite rationale that is feigning confusion.

In all of my experience of asking "why do you not allow vaping" I have mostly encountered ignorance in those response. Ignorance looks like, "because it looks like smoking, end of discussion." So ignorance coupled with arrogance. I anticipate now when I am told no in a store, that I will be met with the ignorance response and then the 'end of discussion' assertion. I'm pleased as punch when it goes another way. I've had one manager tell me, "if it were up to me, it would be allowed, but it is our headquarters that set this policy." Thus no longer ignorance and a response that is rationale, plus one that says vaping in that establishment is not allowed. My desire to take it up with headquarters is present, but I've played that game with 'them' on other issues and they won't budge, and that is assuming they even take time to address your correspondence. Hence arrogance.

Just like the cry-baby comment before, which is also "flippable" : Not allowing vaping is being a crybaby, but not being able to vape and complaining about it isn't being a crybaby.

One of these crybabies can have a rationale discussion and correspond in a polite way.
The other crybaby resorts to position of "because I said so, end of discussion."

IOW, one crybaby is really not a crybaby, but one who will persist in finding out real reason why. The other crybaby is a crybaby who will have temper tantrum and resort to highly rude behavior if you disagree. Do you see now? Am glad to explain further if you are still confused.
 

ItsEddie

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No one, but own kids, was around OP of this thread when OP chose to do it in public. Therefore, you are presumably one that would not see it as possible annoyance in situation that OP chose to do it in. If I am mistaken about this, I'm sure you'll let me know.



Again, no one was around OP of this thread when OP chose to do it. I'm guessing, and actually feeling very confident in saying this, that us respectful vapers who vape in public aren't doing it in close proximity to others. Therefore, that aspect of public vaping ought to be acceptable among you and hopefully all vapers. But in public situations where there is chance for close proximity, then asking first seems like good way to go, in terms of manners.

There is more to say on that last point, but honestly, it'd be nice just to get agreement on what is so far being conveyed as you've managed to change goal posts and I feel I just about scored a touch down with what you chose to respond with. Am for sure in the red zone and wanting to see what your defense is willing to put on the field in response to what I've written here.

It does not matter if anyone is around or not. You are on someone's property/business establishment and they have rules and one rule is not vaping. Even if the rule is there because of ignorance its their rule so you abide by it or leave the establishment. I'm a vaper and if i had to restaurant or supermarket i would not allow it either. The fact is vapour looks like smoke, it is not smoke but it looks exactly like it and not everyone wants to see or smell vapour. Especially while they are doing something like eating in a restaurant. All i'm saying is we cant go into someone's domain and disrespect their rules because we don't like it or feel it is there because of ignorance.
 

jpargana

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Someone needs to figure out how to make a PV that looks like an asthma inhaler. Then, go into a populated place vaping on a normal PV, and see how many comments you get. Then, go into the same populated place with your asthma inhaler look-a-like, take a vape, and see how many people don't give it a second look....even if you breath out a little vapor.

The fact is that people are scared of their own f---ing shadow these days. They allow themselves to be fearmongered into believing everything is harmful to them if the media says so. They aren't afraid of the steaming caffeine coming off a cup of coffee, because the media doesn't fearmonger people about it.

Just stealth the s--t out of it, or don't do it at all. We live amongst crybabies these days, and you'll always be on the losing end if you get caught.

You might want to be careful with that. That's exacly what they already tried in the EU, when they tried to medicalize the e-cig :glare:
 

generic mutant

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It's also been noted by quite a few people that it can leave a film on surfaces. Probably not a major issue in a supermarket, but if you ran one, would you take the chance?

You're selling food. The perception that the food is uncontaminated is key to your business. You don't let a tiny percentage of your customers wander around blowing out stuff that might adhere to surfaces / produce, and potentially put off the much larger percentage of people who don't indulge in this habit, unless you have *very* good reason to.
 

Jman8

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Whether you're near anyone or not, it's just kinda tacky. It smacks of 'trying to get away with it'.

So, again the goal post changed. Now vaping, regardless of distance is tacky because regardless of how it is being done, it looks like 'trying to get away with it.' Well, that then holds true for vaping outdoors and vaping in one's own premises. In fact, if only willing to vape on own premises, when it is shunned in public, you are clearly seeking a place to do it where you think it is acceptable, when perhaps others in society just assume this 'tacky' habit be banned everywhere. I'm thinking you'd agree with them as vaping anywhere for you is just kinda tacky.

How many supermarkets have you been in that have accepted people vaping?

One, but I only go to 2 grocery stores. The one that doesn't allow it, based on ignorance in conversation I had with manager, is one I now go to rarely. Was there yesterday and will probably go there again. Also will likely vape in the one that said no, cause store is large enough that when I'm in canned / packaged food section and no one is around, I see it as non-issue. Fairly certain I'll never be caught should I choose to vape there. Openly.

It seems pretty self-evident that the reason people don't ask is because they know what the answer is already. You're going to annoy the other customers if they see / smell you, and the staff with the sheer presumptuousness of it.

No, I don't ask at times for a variety of reasons. Depends on my mood, or if I think I'll be dealing with low level manager. Like in the store that said okay, I dealt with low level floor person that said, 'sure why not?' I would call that another form of ignorance that worked in my favor. But knowing how the store operates in overall manner, I'm not prone to vape there because they are usually super busy and I'd rather not do it in close proximity to others, even while I'm thinking clientel of that store wouldn't be all that concerned, or even understand what I did. Fact is, I will still vape in that store, but just not feeling entirely comfortable that there policy is in fact 'definitely yes' even while I got an affirmative answer the one time I asked.

Also, I won't ask if it's a large store, like Wal-mart or Home Depot, though I did ask at Home Depot and they said yes. But in large store where I could be at any given point a good 25 feet or more from nearest human, I think of vaping as a non-issue. If these stores suddenly changed policy and were explicit about no vaping, I'd still vape there under same idea I just noted. Perhaps if we enter into world where drone like cameras are on you every public place you enter into, then I may not. Until that day, I'm likely to openly vape in these sort of public places.

Not really any need to force them to ask you to stop, any more than there would be for skateboarding, or drinking booze, or singing loudly. Just wait till you get outside.

I'm considering not doing it outside cause I heard vaping is kinda tacky. Plus who knows where the wind will deliver my exhale? Plus I heard vaping is dangerous (battery could explode at any moment). Plus I heard vaping, and secondhand nicotine is addictive. Besides, we don't know for sure what vaping does to the environment around us, and may not know for another 30 years. Oh and don't forget, vaping leaves a residue wherever you do it. There are people amongst us who could be highly sensitive to whatever is in exhaled vapor, so out of respect for these people and all future generations, I think we might want to examine whether vaping outside or on our own premises is a wise choice.

Seriously, I'm on your guys side, but I just don't think we should vape anywhere, out of respect for people. To disagree with this means you are likely rude, disrespectful and don't understand basic common courtesy.

Nowhere in the Declaration of Independence does it mention vaping, therefore our forefathers obviously didn't want us to vape at all.
 

Racehorse

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In all of my experience of asking "why do you not allow vaping" I have mostly encountered ignorance in those response.

You're not "owed" a response. You seem to be operating on a false premise.

If I owned a business or grocery store and one of my employees caught you vaping and asked you to stop ... you wouldn't have a chance to make an appointment ...

So ignorance coupled with arrogance.

Guess so. :) Again, you are not owed anything. Of course, it is your choice to name call. Or, you can simply see that other people are exercising their private property rights, and learn to be respectful of others.

I doubt they care if you call them names anyway. :lol:

Am glad to explain further if you are still confused.

Oh, I think you've explained it enough. *Everyone else* is confused (not you). Everyone else is arrogant. I get it it.

Read thru the topic again, see what others have to say, then maybe there will be less confusion.

The 2nd time around, read with respect for what others have to say though. Maybe a light will go on. ;)

If these stores suddenly changed policy and were explicit about no vaping, I'd still vape there

.......then again, maybe I am wrong about that light going on.......
 
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Jman8

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You're selling food. The perception that the food is uncontaminated is key to your business. You don't let a tiny percentage of your customers wander around blowing out stuff that might adhere to surfaces / produce, and potentially put off the much larger percentage of people who don't indulge in this habit, unless you have *very* good reason to.

Yeah, I'm fighting for policy at local store where no one in the store gets to exhale. Who knows what people have on their breath, and I sure as heck don't want to be contaminated. I mean how long has contaminated food been with us? And how long have people been exhaling in stores? See my point. I remember seeing somewhere a graph that showed that ever since supermarkets were open, AND people were exhaling in them, contaminated food has gone way up. No way, I'm letting my kids eat from a store that allows its patrons to exhale.

Won't anyone think of the children?
 

generic mutant

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That's a rambling mess, good for you ;)

If you want to wander around annoying people for whatever reason, go for it.

Just please don't pretend you're doing it because it's helpful to the cause of vaping.

Believe it or not, as a public health issue, whether it gets banned is significant. The easier it is to do, the more people will switch, and potentially many lives can be saved.
 

AmandaD

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Because vaping in our own home or car isn't considered 'antisocial.' We didn't smoke in our own home/car because it made our own environment stink. My point is only that we have found an incredibly easy (for most) alternative to smoking. The general public needs to be broken in gently imo. Of course ymmv.

Didn't we also go years and years not smoking in our own residences and/or car? Why would it suddenly make sense to vape in these locations if we wouldn't smoke there?
 

Jman8

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You're not "owed" a response. You seem to be operating on a false premise.

Didn't say I was "owed" a response. You seem to be operating under a false scenario.

Of course, it is your choice to name call. Or, you can simply see that other people are exercising their private property rights, and learn to be respectful of others.

Name calling behavior is not name calling the person. As you are engaging in it, I'm sure you understand.

I am respectful of others, even when I openly vape where policy is no vaping allowed on premises. You seem to be operating under a false premise if you conclude otherwise.
 

Jman8

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That's a rambling mess, good for you ;)

If you want to wander around annoying people for whatever reason, go for it.

Just please don't pretend you're doing it because it's helpful to the cause of vaping.

As I'm not annoying people and have specifically asked in certain situations if persons find it annoying, then you are apparently misjudging the situation.

Vaping in public is helpful to the vaping community. That is what all these threads are about. Some agree with this, and some vapers disagree. So the discussion goes on.

Believe it or not, as a public health issue, whether it gets banned is significant. The easier it is to do, the more people will switch, and potentially many lives can be saved.

Hence, one of the reasons why I advocate for public vaping and vaping everywhere. I'm not into shaming vaping, just as I am not into shaming smoking.
 

jpargana

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Here is an idea...

STOP VAPING IN PLACES WHERE SMOKING IS NOT ALLOWED AND ACTING LIKE IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO DO SO!!!

This is a perfect example of why we get a bad name.

Sorry... JMHO.

I'm not defending the OP. I only vape inside with the owner's permission.

Outside, I will vape anywere. AFAIK, in some places in the States, smoking is already forbidden in beaches, parks, even in your own car... there's no real 'health concern' behind those laws; they were created only to denormalize and marginalize smokers. Do you vape at those places ? :)


The ANTZ's have started e-cig bans long before there were many of us... vaping respectfully or otherwise. Many of those who have pushed for those bans had not even seen an e-cig by then. Those bans were pushed by 'health' groups afilliated with Big Pharma: even by then, the potential for the e-cig market was already obvious. In 2009, I remember some headline stating something like "Now that we had tobacco under control, a new and terrible threat has risen". That threat was not an health-related one (There were already several studies done), but rather, a threat to Big Pharma revenues and Big Gov't taxes.

Treating the e-cig like smoking is giving people the wrong idea, that the e-cig is 'just like' tobacco. ANTZ's would love the idea of ourselves, the users, giving out by our own example the notion that the e-cig is 'just as harmful as tobacco, and should be treated the same'.

So, I would not do what the OP did. But in the other hand, I will not treat the e-cig as just another form of tobacco... because it is not.

Vaping should be done openly and respectfully. Treating vaping like smoking is falling right in the ANTZ's hands. I have been vilified enough for smoking, thankyouverymuch. I shall not fall in the same trap now that I'm vaping.
 
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