EU TPD begins to take effect (DIYers in for more expense)

[CoreyDog]

Hi all,

So as I am sure you are all aware the Tobacco Product Directive has recently come live here in the UK. This antivaping piece of EU legislation will fully come into effect early next year banning the sale of lots of vaping accessories that we all see as common place.

Personally for me, it will impact my DIY juice most drastically (Bought several large capacity tanks already and can still order them in from outside EU).

Today, I went on my regular website where I order my DIY supplies from. Noticed a new section, Nicotine Shots. Well if this is the future may aswell take a look.

They will supply 18 10ml bottles of 18mg strength diluted nicotine for £16 (before postage). That's 180ml of 18mg strength.

To put this is perspective, I previously bought 500ml of 72mg diluted nicotine for £18!

Looks like DIY is going to get ALOT more expensive.

 

[Jim_ MDP]

Being a Septic, I never dug into the TPD's details, but...
Do you know how that deal shakes out with the regs, or is it just that... a newly devised and profitable "deal".

I had thought the 72mg cap was still available, but only in smaller quantities, Not true?

 

[CoreyDog]

Being a Septic, I never dug into the TPD's details, but...
Do you know how that deal shakes out with the regs, or is it just that... a newly devised and profitable "deal".

I had thought the 72mg cap was still available, but only in smaller quantities, Not true?

Sadly, these are the new regs. Can't sell it greater quantity than 10ml per bottle and can't sell at over 18mg strength. Goes for both e liquid and the nicotine base. This ends up more than quadrupling the current price I pay for nicotine base.

Found a place with 2ltr of 72mg strength in 4 freezer packs for £62, looks like I'll stock up. Should last me a year or so. After May 2017, won't be available.

 

[sonicbomb]

2L for 62 quid is a good price. I thought the cap was at 20mg?

 

[CoreyDog]

2L for 62 quid is a good price. I thought the cap was at 20mg?

Order is going in Monday.

It is, but nearly all companies are going for 18mg in order to leave a margin for error. If they say its 20 then it tests at 20.5 or 21, could end up in trouble.

Sorry, I gave wrong info before, should have said 20 was limit. Just put 18 as everyone is using that as the cap.

 

[Shirtbloke]

My reading of the TPD regs in the UK is that the 10ml max size and 20mg max strength only applies to bottles designed to refill ecigs from. So if you're buying big bottles without a spout on the top and only of a strength that needs diluting, so they can't be used for directly filling an ecig without further work, then it will be perfectly legal to sell 72mg in larger quantities. Nicotine has other uses beside vaping (ie as insecticide)and the TPD regs can't cover that.

I may be wrong about this, and it might take a court case by somebody to decide it, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[CoreyDog]

My reading of the TPD regs in the UK is that the 10ml max size and 20mg max strength only applies to bottles designed to refill ecigs from. So if you're buying big bottles without a spout on the top and only of a strength that needs diluting, so they can't be used for directly filling an ecig without further work, then it will be perfectly legal to sell 72mg in larger quantities. Nicotine has other uses beside vaping (ie as insecticide)and the TPD regs can't cover that.

I may be wrong about this, and it might take a court case by somebody to decide it, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

I truly hope you are right.

Sadly, everything I've read and seen so far says it will also apply to nicotine base. Apparently it's to prevent accidental ingestion by people... Yet I have a 2ltr bottle of bleach in my bathroom... Work that one out!

I think, as you say, will take a legal challenge and some interpretation of the rules. I know Totally Wickeds challenge failed, but everyone expected that.

 

[Shirtbloke]

Sadly, everything I've read and seen so far says it will also apply to nicotine base. Apparently it's to prevent accidental ingestion by people... Yet I have a 2ltr bottle of bleach in my bathroom... Work that one out!

And people wonder why we voted for Brexit.

 

[sonicbomb]

My reading of the TPD regs in the UK is that the 10ml max size and 20mg max strength only applies to bottles designed to refill ecigs from. So if you're buying big bottles without a spout on the top and only of a strength that needs diluting, so they can't be used for directly filling an ecig without further work, then it will be perfectly legal to sell 72mg in larger quantities. Nicotine has other uses beside vaping (ie as insecticide)and the TPD regs can't cover that.

I may be wrong about this, and it might take a court case by somebody to decide it, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

Hmm, I wouldn't rely on that. I'll be mildly miffed if it is the case because I invested quite a bit in a stockpile.

 

[CoreyDog]

And that's the precise reason I voted Leave. Fed up of having legislation forced on us by an Parliament I never voted for. The TPD is just one of many.

Let's just hope TPD is dropped when we start to remove all this Europe forced legislation.

 

[Shirtbloke]

Here's the appropriate wording from Gov.UK
E-cigarettes: regulations for consumer products - GOV.UK

"Refill container’ means a receptacle that holds a nicotine-containing liquid, which can be used to refill an electronic cigarette. These are more commonly known as e-liquids."

So if you can't refill your ecig with it, the limits don't apply.

 

[Jim_ MDP]

Found a place with 2ltr of 72mg strength in 4 freezer packs for £62, looks like I'll stock up. Should last me a year or so.

Bit of a chain vaper are you?

IIRC... at my mere 10 or so ml at 6mg a day, a quarter liter of 100mg/ml lasts me the better part of a year.

 

[r055co]

Thus the reason to have a decent stockpile of 100mg nic in the freezer. I'm here in the U.S. and myself I have over 4 1/2 liters of 100mg PG sitting in the freezer. What ever happens, if Vaping is banned to excessively taxed I'm fully prepared to give them the middle finger. If by some miracle the FDA is put in their place "and" juice isn't excessively taxed I just have a supply I can either trade/sell or just mess about with my own flavors.

 

[CoreyDog]

Bit of a chain vaper are you?

IIRC... at my mere 10 or so ml at 6mg a day, a quarter liter of 100mg/ml lasts me the better part of a year.

I wish it was just for me...

Since I started making my own liquid I now make it for myself, my better half and my mother!

Suppose it's a compliment really they want my eliquid!

Though that's 3 less people smoking cigarettes, I call that a victory.

 

[Lemwise]

We have enough nic base in the freezer to last the three of us at least 15 years so I say bring it on. We also have more than enough mods, tanks and drippers. The rest like PG, VG, resistance wire, batteries, cotton and flavourings will always be freely available. No one will stop us from vaping.

 

[SleeZy]

Here's the appropriate wording from Gov.UK
E-cigarettes: regulations for consumer products - GOV.UK

"Refill container’ means a receptacle that holds a nicotine-containing liquid, which can be used to refill an electronic cigarette. These are more commonly known as e-liquids."

So if you can't refill your ecig with it, the limits don't apply.

Hmm i wonder if that's why i've been getting my nic base like this:
Since i can't refill from this bottle, i need to remove the cap and use a syringe or spill it into another container.
Edit: It may look unclear but i've removed the lid on this, and this is how it looks like under. So not the regular tip the usual e juice bottles has. It does have a tiny hole in the middle though so one can use a syringe if one wanted, but i just usualy pop it open completly and fill another bottle with the amount i want.

 

[CoreyDog]

Hmm i wonder if that's why i've been getting my nic base like this:
Since i can't refill from this bottle, i need to remove the cap and use a syringe or spill it into another container.
Edit: It may look unclear but i've removed the lid on this, and this is how it looks like under. So not the regular tip the usual e juice bottles has. It does have a tiny hole in the middle though so one can use a syringe if one wanted, but i just usualy pop it open completly and fill another bottle with the amount i want.

Looks as if different companies are interpreting the rules in their own way. Good!

Hopefully find the loopholes to make this TPD nonsense redundant. Let's face it, with us leaving the EU, seems pointless having numerous court cases to clarify these ridiculous rules.

I have hope!

 

[SleeZy]

Looks as if different companies are interpreting the rules in their own way. Good!

Hopefully find the loopholes to make this TPD nonsense redundant. Let's face it, with us leaving the EU, seems pointless having numerous court cases to clarify these ridiculous rules.

I have hope!

I agree!

I personaly has less hope due still in the EU ^^ And sweden usualy takes it even more to the extreme.
But only time will tell.
But as it looks atm we've also the 10 ml limit and other dumb stuff.

 

[Shirtbloke]

The "Refill Container" thing applies to the UK. You'd have to read the regs in your country to find out what's happening exactly. But it looks like they may be looking for ways round the regs. Good.

 

[SleeZy]

The "Refill Container" thing applies to the UK. You'd have to read the regs in your country to find out what's happening exactly. But it looks like they may be looking for ways round the regs. Good.

As i've understood it so far, is that what EU decides will apply to sweden. Sweden can then proceed to interpret it further their own way (usualy for the worse)
For a moment they wanted to only allow cig-alikes, but iven't heard anything about that in a long while so i assume it's scrapped. However a tank can't hold more than 3.5 ml. (General for all of eu i assume)

Taxes for ejuice (or nicotine for that matter) and supplies is what worries me the most.