TropicalBob...the china thing..

[Tallgirl1974]

For the person who thinks I was calling out TB, I was not. I simply wanted to know what he meant and had to move his quote from an inappropriate place. I dont PM with people because I just thought that was rude to assume I can just send someone a PM without knowing them. Id change the title but it wont let me. I am not be factious or sarcastic.


"Unfortunately, the practice virtually demands assurances of safety, something that cannot be left to Chinese manufacturers who exist outside regulatory scrutiny. Open your eyes wide, and you'll see where this is heading." Tropical Bob."

Explain?
You implied that we should be leery because of the Chinese regulatory issues, or lack of..... its not china in general that makes anything on their own, its companies who put their industry there- they are the ones who need to be accountable for what is made there. A Chinese based company doesn't equate to "bad" like it seems you imply? And if you make your own liquid- do you fears go away? Is it simply the liquid? If Ruyan holds the patent rights in china, and some of their BOD are Americans/non Chinese- hoping desperately to expand their market- also several very highly respected research institutions have done studies- why is there some boogy man to fear? Are you putting all your stock in our FDA regulations only?Also, They have been around for years in other countries- would we not see negative effects by now from them?
I guess my question is this: I have seen you post so much info, but cant figure out your bottom line defintion for safety. I dont understand where you think this is heading. lol

 

[Cellmeister]

Ya, I Agree.

I Don't Want Bath Water In My juice....

~Keep Vapin~!

 

[Vapor Pete]

I guess my question is this: I have seen you post so much info, but cant figure out your bottom line defintion for safety. I dont understand where you think this is heading. lol

LOL! Wow TG, you just said what I've been wondering since I joined the ECF...Thanks! Your awsome!
My best,
-VP

 

[surbitonPete]

I think TBob just tries to keep everyone's head out of the clouds when it comes to vaping. In an ideal world it 'should' be controlled by something like the FDA, there 'should' be standards set for the juice and for the equipment, standards that we know are being checked by a regulatory body that has the power to shut down a juice or equipment manufacturer for failing to meet those standards, as it all stands now we have to rely solely on self regulation and sadly not even our own governments are good at self-regulation. Even so I still believe it's got to be miles better than smoking tobacco.

 

[paladinx]

haha im still posting. Damn it. gonna have to ween myself off this forum. I think I know exactly what bob means. When companies go to china or anywhere else, there are reasons and loopholes as to the reason why. When you produce overseas, not only are the costs extremely low, but the laws are different. You do not have to bring american laws to where you are going. Ex. Nike sweat shops in mexico, or factories employing child labor. You couldn't do that in the United States, but abroad you can. The only laws that would apply are the laws of import/export, and as it stands there is no regulating factor set up for e-cig/juice imports.

China has a track record of its own. And that has to do with their own production, laws, and facilicities. We use them because they are more cost effective. But Chinese regulation of ingestible products is very sketchy. Look at their history of food contamination. Thousands of pets died in the US because of food imported from china just recently. And besides why would any US company bring a bunch of regulatory standards if they do not have to? They do what they can get away with and what makes them the most money. It has always been the case.

I believe bobs post makes a lot of sense. You are ultimately putting your faith in the regulatory standards of chinese factories and their track record and nothing else. that is bobs point. Think about it, would you really want all your food to be imported from china? We couldnt even import dog food without paying a price.

regards.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

I think TBob just tries to keep everyone's head out of the clouds when it comes to vaping. In an ideal world it 'should' be controlled by something like the FDA, there 'should' be standards set for the juice and for the equipment, standards that we know are being checked by a regulatory body that has the power to shut down a juice or equipment manufacturer for failing to meet those standards, as it all stands now we have to rely solely on self regulation and sadly not even our own governments are good at self-regulation. Even so I still believe it's got to be miles better than smoking tobacco.

Well stated Pete. Furthermore, TB is experssing his opinion and does not deserve to be called out on it in a thread. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I never see TB ranting. So why do you not lay off him. Starting a Thread to call him out is just plain wrong IMO----

---------Sun

 

[Cancer]

Tropical Bob is so well spoken and respectful...this thread need to be retitled or closed. Go back to THAT discussion or PM him and dialogue with him. Calling him out in a thread is insulting him in my opinion.

 

[nitewriter]

It's easy for some to see TB as synical, but in all actuallity he forces us to remove our rose colored glasses, and instead look through magnifying glasses. In other words, he shows us the hard facts. Sometimes those facts may be hard to swallow or not what we want to hear, but it's what we NEED to hear.

He is a journalist and fact-finding is his nature. I think we're fortunate to have him keep us grounded.

 

[Vapor Pete]

Well stated Pete. Furthermore, TB is experssing his opinion and does not deserve to be called out on it in a thread. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I never see TB ranting. So why do you not lay off him. Starting a Thread to call him out is just plain wrong IMO----

---------Sun

Thats funny... no one came to my defense when I was called out in a thread. Just sayin
My best,
-VP

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Thats funny... no one came to my defense when I was called out in a thread. Just sayin
My best,
-VP

Vapor Pete--I did not see a thread calling you out. I must have missed it. But if I had scene it, I would have said the same thing. NOONE should be singled out like that ever IMO----Sun

 

[Tallgirl1974]

Tropical Bob is so well spoken and respectful...this thread need to be retitled or closed. Go back to THAT discussion or PM him and dialogue with him. Calling him out in a thread is insulting him in my opinion.

WTF? Calling him out? I asked a very simple question, with no disrespect or even sarcasm. The thread that was posted on would be *highly inappropriate to discuss this on. I moved a quote so as to NOT be a jerk and then I get slammed?
I have never had any problems with Mr. Bob- and if HE finds my question rude, he can say so himself. It was not an insult or rant to ask him to clarify. I am sure he doesn't need you speaking for him.
And no, Pete- it figures doesnt it?

 

[LuckySevens4U]

Ummmmmm Tall, Sun is a moderator, careful.

 

[paladinx]

Seriously though, There is really nothing to call bob out on, because everything he said made perfect sense. But if people are arguing that you are making an attempt to, i have no idea. I know you have with me, but i wont jump to any conclusions.

That being said, I have been here a relatively short time, and I dont feel the need to question bobs stance. i believe he has been very clear. Let me take a stab at it Bob, and you can grade me on my observational skills. And this is not to speak for you, but to only show you that maybe someone like me, a rookie, could understand where you are coming from. You took an educated risk and made a decision based on current facts and knowledge of the product. You choose to E-smoke because you believe the benefits will probably outweigh the cons in regards to cigarette cessation. At the same time you are a realist and acknowledge the concerns and unknowns of the device. The devices are not yet perfect and there are things that can be improved in regards to quality control and perhaps regulation. So while you vape with your health in mind, you will have the wisdom to know that part of what you do is not only based on knowledge or fact, but also an element based on faith. and u know what. That is a pretty damn realistic attitude to have...

 

[Vapor Pete]

Vapor Pete--I did not see a thread calling you out. I must have missed it. But if I had scene it, I would have said the same thing. NOONE should be singled out like that ever IMO----Sun

Thanks bro!
The sad thing is the person who created the thread put it in the OUTSIDE section, and I had never gone there, so for three pages he got the masses all riled up, and I didnt know it was going on. I found it by accident.
In any event, I wouldnt take TG's thread as calling him out per se, but a way to call his attention, and open up the thread for discussion. Pm'ing dosent really allow for that, and like myself, others may want to pose similar questions, or comments. No one is bashing TB (as they did in my case), so as long as a thread remains respectable, I see no issue personally.
My best,
-VP

 

[surbitonPete]

WTF? Calling him out? I asked a very simple question, with no disrespect or even sarcasm. The thread that was posted on would be *highly inappropriate to discuss this on. I moved a quote so as to NOT be a jerk and then I get slammed?
I have never had any problems with Mr. Bob- and if HE finds my question rude, he can say so himself. It was not an insult or rant to ask him to clarify. I am sure he doesn't need you speaking for him.
And no, Pete- it figures doesnt it?

Tallgirl.....I don't know how to explain it but starting a 'thread' with someone's name in the title does seem more like you are wanting to start some sort of argument with them rather than just ask them a question. It's just how it comes across even if it isn't intended that way at all. (unless of course it's just some sort of congratulation type of thread)

 

[Vapor Pete]

Hummmm...... someone else posted a thread asking TB a question in the "Alternatives To Smoking" section?
Also note that TB has yet to address this thread, while everyone bickers about the thread that was directed at him?
My best,
-VP

 

[Tallgirl1974]

I saw the other thread with his name in it- are you there yelling at the person who posted that one?
I ...umed that was how we got peoples attention? This is not the first forum I have posted in- its not an insult to put someones name in the title nor is it "calling them out" its just trying to get someone's attention.

 

[Tallgirl1974]

I think TBob just tries to keep everyone's head out of the clouds when it comes to vaping. In an ideal world it 'should' be controlled by something like the FDA, there 'should' be standards set for the juice and for the equipment, standards that we know are being checked by a regulatory body that has the power to shut down a juice or equipment manufacturer for failing to meet those standards, as it all stands now we have to rely solely on self regulation and sadly not even our own governments are good at self-regulation. Even so I still believe it's got to be miles better than smoking tobacco.

Do we assume everything the FDA approves and regulates is "safe?" Do you know how many rat turds the FDA allows per bottle of peanut butter for it to pass inspections? If you believe the number to be zero than you'd be wrong.
I was really more fascinated with the china implications. Its a myth to believe that china made items are bad JUST because they were made in china. They(workers) don't cut corners just for fun, they are told to cut corners. Mattel is the leading toy company in our country- they have china based factories- they have had the most recalls on their products- due to them trying to make more money and not meet regulations. Them, the American based company is at fault there- not china. You know?
Also china isn't famous for recalls and bad products based on facts and true data- its propaganda and media fed BS- the numbers are blown so far out of proportion it is insanity. Other countries, including our own, also go thru recalls and bad products, poisonings, etc. If our FDA worked at all, our numbers would not be as high as countries without strict regulations?

 

[surbitonPete]

Do we assume everything the FDA approves and regulates is "safe?" Do you know how many rat turds the FDA allows per bottle of peanut butter for it to pass inspections? If you believe the number to be zero than you'd be wrong.
I was really more fascinated with the china implications. Its a myth to believe that china made items are bad JUST because they were made in china. They(workers) don't cut corners just for fun, they are told to cut corners. Mattel is the leading toy company in our country- they have china based factories- they have had the most recalls on their products- due to them trying to make more money and not meet regulations. Them, the American based company is at fault there- not china. You know?
Also china isn't famous for recalls and bad products based on facts and true data- its propaganda and media fed BS- the numbers are blown so far out of proportion it is insanity. Other countries, including our own, also go thru recalls and bad products, poisonings, etc. If our FDA worked at all, our numbers would not be as high as countries without strict regulations?

There is certainly a lot of merit in what you are saying there Tallgirl....it would probably be interesting to have a thread to see what other people's thoughts and opinions are about it.

 

[paladinx]

Tall i guess you overlooked the entire point. Its not about that. Its about companies doing whatever they can do to cut corners and reduce costs. If they can produce a product in a sweat shop with child labor and very little regulation, they will do so. No, have done so. That is the point. Is the FDA a perfect system or any other system for that matter, of course not. But It is a known fact that companies go overseas for cheaper costs and to cut corners on regulatory laws that do not exist in other countries. you know its so easy to point out all the flaws in the United States, but no one ever wants to point out how far worse some other countries and systems are.

And people who make such claims should put their money where there mouth is. I would love to see people here feel totally confident importing all their food from china with a worry free head. Its not a conspiracy, China has a history of problems with poor regulation standards and food contamination. you want a little in your backyard glimpse of this? Go to your local food health inspection sites and take a look at a place like China Town in NYC, and look through the huge list of places that are violating health/food/cleanliness/safety laws.