Truth about Rath juice(must see)

[markarich159]

Will link you to a post in a thread already in progress. Saw this on youtube and, literally, could not believe my ears. Here's the link:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ath-juice-beat-me-my-money-2.html#post1718298

 

[AcePilot]

Its BULL..... like this that is going to ruin vaping for everyone.
Think about it, the "unsafe" crap the FDA is trying to shove down our throats is all about the liquid. How we don't know exactly whats in it, who makes it, where it really comes from. This is infuriating on so many levels.
I have a few bottles of "Rath Juice". Thankfully I have been so obsessed with my TV liquids that I haven't tried the Rath ones. Now come to find out its some illegal woman being forced to make it blindly while he goes off and gambles? Its sickening. This is the type of stuff thats going to ruin the great thing we've got going. Scandals bring attention, and this is NOT positive press.

Thanks . Now the anti-vaping robots can say that this can be the case with every supplier.

First the complaint was that its from china, and there is no quality control.
So... The people create their own business' making liquid here in the US.
Then we find out its actually the "locals" that lack quality control. Awesome.

 

[Automaton]

I understand everyone's frustration. But given all the factors in play, I'm not prepared to think anything more of this situation than "This is incredibly sad."

Gambling can become an addiction every bit as vicious as drug addiction. I had a teacher in high school who was also a wrestling coach, and a great guy. But they went on a wrestling meet trip, and he'd gambled away all the trip money before the meet even began.

Not because he was an evil SOB. But because he had a problem.

Is it possible this guy really is just a jerk? Sure. Do people have every right to feel screwed? Yes.

But let's withhold on the bigger judgements for now. We really don't know exactly what's going on here, and there's every possibility that we're just dealing with a sick man who needs help.

 

[bassthumper]

Its BULL..... like this that is going to ruin vaping for everyone.
Think about it, the "unsafe" crap the FDA is trying to shove down our throats is all about the liquid. How we don't know exactly whats in it, who makes it, where it really comes from. This is infuriating on so many levels.
I have a few bottles of "Rath Juice". Thankfully I have been so obsessed with my TV liquids that I haven't tried the Rath ones. Now come to find out its some illegal woman being forced to make it blindly while he goes off and gambles? Its sickening. This is the type of stuff thats going to ruin the great thing we've got going. Scandals bring attention, and this is NOT positive press.

Thanks . Now the anti-vaping robots can say that this can be the case with every supplier.

First the complaint was that its from china, and there is no quality control.
So... The people create their own business' making liquid here in the US.
Then we find out its actually the "locals" that lack quality control. Awesome.

Chill the hell out.
This has nothing to do with quality control. This has nothing to do with china. You're going off on him and you don't even know why.

This is about the guy who owns Rath gambling away all these thousands of $'s that ppl send him for liquid and never giving them what they pay for. All these suppliers bought liquid from Rath and NEVER GOT IT. Now if you ask me-- I think this should be "told on the mountain" because nobody wants to pay money for something they aren't gonna get. You should be thanking him for the information!

 

[r3dgh0s7]

wow, nice reply


*face palm*

 

[markarich159]

My concern is more along the lines of what kind of deleterious swill this gentlemen may have been pawning off as vapable product to hundreds/thousands of vaping customers. Remember this is going directly into our pulmonary tissue. I don't care what "health or psychological problems" this guy had. He sold something intended for direct pulmonary inhalation that could have , through his negligence, harmed or killed somebody. Lets say the lady who was making this in Rath's absence made a simple milligram to gram mathematical error upon mixing(that's a factor of 1000 error- or 3 orders of magnitude) How many people could have been severely injured/killed by vaping something they though was 18mg/ml which was actually 18000mg/ml?!?!

Frankly,this guy should be in jail or at the very least sued out the whazoo.

I'm a pharmacist- If I was online gambling while dispensing and "accidentally" dispensed Percocet instead of Prilosec to someone and they died of an opiate overdose, no one would care about my "gambling addiction". I'd lose my license, be sued to poverty and possibly brought up on negligent homicide charges.

And we DO know what's going on here- it's been independently confirmed by SEVERAL well known and reputable suppliers.

No, I'm with AcePilot on this one. This is exactly what the industry does NOT need right now, and if it's smart it will take stern, swift action against this guy as an example of what we will NOT tolerate. Gamble on your own time. If it becomes a problem that spills over into your business, get help OR shut down your business. Don't use your "business" to extend your habit while ripping off good people and risking harm to many.

Oh and P.S. The Bogetech facility in China leaves any US liquid manufacturer in the dust. Go to V4Life subforum and watch his video of the Bogetech plant tour. They use a sophisticated airlock/cleanroom production line that makes our USA kitchen eliquid makers look like Bathtub Gin makers. They are also independently certified by ISO, TUV, SGS and South Korean FDA and utilize GMP practices. I have nothing bad to say about Chinese eliquid(at least DK/Boge) and wish USA eliquid makers would start voluntarily adopting some of their principles. Certainly this RATH incident would have been averted if this was so.

 

[potholerepairman]

thanks for the heads up

 

[Automaton]

That's all well and good, and please do make people aware of possible safety issues, as well as ethical issues, that are going on here.

But while I may not be a particularly religious person, I'm inclined towards "hate the sin, not the sinner."

No rational person would throw away a business opportunity like what he had. Like I said, he may be a jerk as well, but we don't know that for sure - what we do know, at the least, is that he's sick.

Jail is not where you put sick people. At least, not if you want them to get better.

So please do warn people about possible dangers that this may cause. But can we abstain from the vitriol aimed at someone that we don't really know the whole situation with?

EDIT: Asking someone to be an addict "on their own time" is a bit absurd. What would you have done, as a smoker, if your employer forbade you from smoking for a whole 10-hour shift?

My concern is more along the lines of what kind of deleterious swill this gentlemen may have been pawning off as vapable product to hundreds/thousands of vaping customers. Remember this is going directly into our pulmonary tissue. I don't care what "health or psychological problems" this guy had. He sold something intended for direct pulmonary inhalation that could have , through his negligence, harmed or killed somebody. Lets say the lady who was making this in Rath's absence made a simple milligram to gram mathematical error upon mixing(that's a factor of 1000 error- or 3 orders of magnitude) How many people could have been severely injured/killed by vaping something they though was 18mg/ml which was actually 18000mg/ml?!?!

Frankly,this guy should be in jail or at the very least sued out the whazoo.

I'm a pharmacist- If I was online gambling while dispensing and "accidentally" dispensed Percocet instead of Prilosec to someone and they died of an opiate overdose, no one would care about my "gambling addiction". I'd lose my license, be sued to poverty and possibly brought up on negligent homicide charges.

And we DO know what's going on here- it's been independently confirmed by SEVERAL well known and reputable suppliers.

No, I'm with AcePilot on this one. This is exactly what the industry does NOT need right now, and if it's smart it will take stern, swift action against this guy as an example of what we will NOT tolerate. Gamble on your own time. If it becomes a problem that spills over into your business, get help OR shut down your business. Don't use your "business" to extend your habit while ripping off good people and risking harm to many.

 

[markarich159]

That's all well and good, and please do make people aware of possible safety issues, as well as ethical issues, that are going on here.

But while I may not be a particularly religious person, I'm inclined towards "hate the sin, not the sinner."

Unless you or a friend or family member was hurt, then bring out the gallows.

No rational person would throw away a business opportunity like what he had. Like I said, he may be a jerk as well, but we don't know that for sure

Yes we do, the story has been confirmed by at least 5 independent suppliers- the ENTIRE story- ALL OF IT!!!

Jail is not where you put sick people.

you're right. I disagree with putting a gambling addict in jail for JUST gambling or a drug addict for JUST possesion. This goes way beyond that. This is Fraud, theft, illegal indentured servitude, negligence and several consumer protection violations.

EDIT: Asking someone to be an addict "on their own time" is a bit absurd. What would you have done, as a smoker, if your employer forbade you from smoking for a whole 10-hour shift?

Not stole all the petty cash and gone out and and bought hundreds of cartons of Camels, while lying about my hours worked and providing a shoddy, possibly dangerous product to the general public.

And this isn't about being a functioning addict while at work. This is about allowing your addiction to adversly affect others-suppliers and their family's - (I just saw a video where a supplier who Rath stole from was thanking him for taking food out of his 2 children's mouths) and the vaping public in general.

If someone has to go to jail for being caught with a small amount of a green leafy substance, then it's only fair, Rath should go to jail as he's not just harmed himself but many others- possibly an entire industry.

We could go on for days like this. I have my opinion, your's obviously differs. If the FDA finds out about this and immediately bans eliquid because of the possible harm unregulated eliquid suppliers like RATH could cause based on this incident, your opinion may change.

 

[Automaton]

...And the only reason you weren't going out and swindling that money and stealing those cigs is because your addiction is legal, and relatively cheap.

Same for me. Same for everyone else here.

And you know how I know that? Because as legal and relatively cheap as our addictions are, I have been broke enough to get a scary glipse of what I would do to feed my addiction. My only saving grace was having a big network of people who liked me enough to help me feed it for a short while.

Most people here (thankfully) have never gotten quite that desperate. But please understand - it's not a question of "if" you would do it. It's a question of "under what circumstances" you would do it.

And no, I wouldn't send a sick person to the gallows for hurting someone I cared about. Been there, too. My pain doesn't negate their sickness. Try me.

I'm not arguing the validity of the story. I'm not arguing that he stole, or lied, or was negligent, or is being cruel to his wife. None of it.

I'm just saying that all of this, sadly, is within the bounds of what someone will do when they are an addict. And his addiction, unlike ours, is EXTREMELY expensive.

Maybe you have to really see a good person turn into something like this to get it. I don't know.

But I have. And I get it. And without more information about his history (which I am not entitled to), I am not ready to make a judgment on his humanity.

The only thing I can make a judgment on at this point in time is his products and services.

 

[AcePilot]

Chill the hell out.
This has nothing to do with quality control. This has nothing to do with china. You're going off on him and you don't even know why.

This is about the guy who owns Rath gambling away all these thousands of $'s that ppl send him for liquid and never giving them what they pay for. All these suppliers bought liquid from Rath and NEVER GOT IT. Now if you ask me-- I think this should be "told on the mountain" because nobody wants to pay money for something they aren't gonna get. You should be thanking him for the information!

Um... I wasn't referring to the person who posted this. And yes, This has everything to do with quality control.
I am in NO WAY going off on the OP. I am extremely sorry if it was taken that way, Again, I am IN NO WAY talking bad about the original poster. Props to the OP for starting another thread.
I am referring to "Rath".
Personally, I do not care that he has a "problem". So does a rather large portion of the population. I don't care if you (By "you" I mean anyone, not the OP... Just thought I would clarify now, so you don't jump down my throat again) are a Junkie/drunk/gambler Etc.. You can drink/smoke/shoot/gamble your life away, and It doesn't matter much to me. I care that he has been distributing this crap to the community (The stuff that he actually sent) and then ripped off suppliers.

And... How is this not a quality control issue?
Yes, he ripped off suppliers. Yes, that's a jerk move.
What about the people that have been vaping the liquids that have been prepared by an unexperienced person? How do people know what they are really getting? Sure, they could be 100% safe, and just lack flavor. Fine, but that my friend, is a quality control issue. Quality control = Controlling the quality of the product.

 

[AcePilot]

No, I'm with AcePilot on this one. This is exactly what the industry does NOT need right now, and if it's smart it will take stern, swift action against this guy as an example of what we will NOT tolerate. Gamble on your own time. If it becomes a problem that spills over into your business, get help OR shut down your business. Don't use your "business" to extend your habit while ripping off good people and risking harm to many.

I wanted to reiterate the fact that I was not pointing my "rant" at you, but at Rath. I didn't realize when I originally posted that it would look like I was talking about you... Well because that would be completely absurd.

Of course, I wasn't talking about your post being "not what we need right now". I was talking about the scandal. The stupidity and utter lack of concern for people that Rath has shown.

Every one needs to know about whats going on with Rath Juice. Your post played a part in getting it out there. I had no idea what was going on till I stumbled upon your post, So thank you markarich159 for helping to spread the word.

 

[mynicknamerocks]

Oh booh hoo, the poor man is 'sick' and has an 'addiction'.

I couldn't give a rats .... what his problem is - this is unforgivable. absolutely unforgivable.

It puts our entire hobby(?) at risk, the health of consumers and finances of businesses.

POOR FORM.

 

[AcePilot]

Oh booh hoo, the poor man is 'sick' and has an 'addiction'.

I couldn't give a rats .... what his problem is - this is unforgivable. absolutely unforgivable.

It puts our entire hobby(?) at risk, the health of consumers and finances of businesses.

POOR FORM.

Couldn't agree more. Is there anything that can be done about this?
Is there anything the suppliers can do? Or are they just out the thousands of dollars?

 

[Automaton]

Oh booh hoo, the poor man is 'sick' and has an 'addiction'.

I couldn't give a rats .... what his problem is - this is unforgivable. absolutely unforgivable.

It puts our entire hobby(?) at risk, the health of consumers and finances of businesses.

POOR FORM.

Then feel free to spread the world about the possible danger of his recent products. Feel free to spread the word about his deceit. Feel free to give him a very big mountain to climb if he ever wants to regain his career.

But hating him personally, or being vengeful, is not only useless, and indicative of a lack of ability to relate to others, but poisonous for you.

 

[AcePilot]

Then feel free to spread the world about the possible danger of his recent products. Feel free to spread the word about his deceit. Feel free to give him a very big mountain to climb if he ever wants to regain his career.

But hating him personally, or being vengeful, is not only useless, and indicative of a lack of ability to relate to others, but poisonous for you.

Wait. So.. Knowing what he has allowed to happen, would you support him if/when he attempts to "regain his career"?

You seem very understanding. And that's great. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round... I however can't be understanding when it comes to stealing, endangering the health and wellness of others, and giving vaping a bad name.

Why shouldn't people be angry with him personally? He personally allowed this to happen. "Sickness" or not, He allowed this to happen. He chose to Lie and Steal. He lied about having cancer. He stole money. Lost of it.
This vaping community is one that I have come to love, And I see no reason to be kind and understanding when someone pulls this crap.
Just my

 

[potholerepairman]

... My pain doesn't negate their sickness.

I like that line , thanks MistressNomad I going to steal and use it when ever its needed.You being so forgiving wont hold it against me for too long.thanks really.

 

[Automaton]

Would I support him in regaining his career? Most likely not. Or at least, not until it was very well re-established. I don't have to be trusting to be understanding.

It's ok that you can't understand. Maybe it really is something you have to see, to understand. But good people can do some very wicked things when they are tormented.

And gambling is a special kind of torment - fueled not only by the addiction itself, but by the belief that the addiction can solve the damage done by the addiction. That is what makes it so vicious.

People shouldn't be angry with him personally because they don't have enough information about him to conclusively say that he's just a jerk. That simple.

Yes, he did choose to do all of it. But he chose to do so with a very ill mind. I have watched a friend of mine hurt her own child because of sickness. And knowing how tormented she was, I simply can't hate her. I couldn't even try, or pretend.

Does it negate that she hurt her child? No. Does it mean I think it's ok for her to be around her child? No.

But it does mean I was very upset when they sent a sick woman to prison. It does mean I feel pain for her, and for her child.

I'm not asking you to put up with it. I'm just asking you to, if not understand, at least evaluate what it really means when you just said to me "I don't understand."

Love,
Cassie

Wait. So.. Knowing what he has allowed to happen, would you support him if/when he attempts to "regain his career"?

You seem very understanding. And that's great. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round... I however can't be understanding when it comes to stealing, endangering the health and wellness of others, and giving vaping a bad name.

Why shouldn't people be angry with him personally? He personally allowed this to happen. "Sickness" or not, He allowed this to happen. He chose to Lie and Steal. He lied about having cancer. He stole money. Lost of it.
This vaping community is one that I have come to love, And I see no reason to be kind and understanding when someone pulls this crap.
Just my

 

[Automaton]

I like that line , thanks MistressNomad I going to steal and use it when ever its needed.You being so forgiving wont hold it against me for too long.thanks really.

Heh, go for it. Glad you liked it.

 

[AcePilot]

Would I support him in regaining his career? Most likely not. Or at least, not until it was very well re-established. I don't have to be trusting to be understanding.

It's ok that you can't understand. Maybe it really is something you have to see, to understand. But good people can do some very wicked things when they are tormented.

And gambling is a special kind of torment - fueled not only by the addiction itself, but by the belief that the addiction can solve the damage done by the addiction. That is what makes it so vicious.

People shouldn't be angry with him personally because they don't have enough information about him to conclusively say that he's just a jerk. That simple.

Yes, he did choose to do all of it. But he chose to do so with a very ill mind. I have watched a friend of mine hurt her own child because of sickness. And knowing how tormented she was, I simply can't hate her. I couldn't even try, or pretend.

Does it negate that she hurt her child? No. Does it mean I think it's ok for her to be around her child? No.

But it does mean I was very upset when they sent a sick woman to prison. It does mean I feel pain for her, and for her child.

I'm not asking you to put up with it. I'm just asking you to, if not understand, at least evaluate what it really means when you say "I don't know."

Love,
Cassie

..There is no "I don't know" here. I know right from wrong. What he has done is wrong. It really seems like you are misdirecting your love for your sick friend, and defending a complete stranger who has hurt A LOT of people.
I am not going to argue with you about this. Obviously we are polar opposites, and both entitled to our different opinions.

This topic is about spreading the word about Rath, and what he has done. Lets keep in that way.