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Two 18350's better vape then a single?

Discussion in 'VAMO' started by footbag, Oct 11, 2013.

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  1. footbag

    footbag Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2010
    NEPA
    I had been using the Vamo in shorty mode with a single 18350. It's a better size for stealth vaping at work. I thought the flavor was muted and I thought something was going wrong with my Vamo.

    So I put the two 18350's in and all of a sudden it's working fine. Do Vamo's just operate better with stacked batteries? Or is my Vamo doing something funny?
     
  2. Trayce

    Trayce Moved On ECF Veteran

    Mar 28, 2013
    Multiversal
    You have twice the power with two batts, so it's going to hit better. However you should follow safe batt practices if stacking.... there are many threads that cover the extra precautions that are recommended. I don't stack so can't point you to them, but it's recommended to only use matched batts (same brand/type/model, both new), charge them together, etc.

    You could also use a single 18650 batt which would have slightly less power than 2 18350s but would avoid the potential safety downsides associated with stacking batts.
     
  3. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Feb 10, 2009
    GA by way of WV
    Good points. You only get the "full" potential of the Vamo with two 18350's. The 18650 still has to be "boosted". There is a difference in performance between the two. Some don't think it is enough of a difference to use two 18350's. I think the difference is more significant.
     
  4. wbart

    wbart Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 6, 2013
    Easton, MD, USA
    See I always thought the same... But I thought it was in my head this whole time
     
  5. Trayce

    Trayce Moved On ECF Veteran

    Mar 28, 2013
    Multiversal
    If you choose to, but most folks (I'd venture) use a single 18650 without boosting because they get a great result, unlike using a single 18350. Of course now that he's stacked, he might miss the power, switching to a single 18650! :)
     
  6. vicflo

    vicflo Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 25, 2009
    Virginia
    Depends on who you ask. In person the majority people i know that own vamos stack 18350s and have no problems. Keep in mind my "majority" is a building full of senior EE/CE majors.

    On these forums you get "schooled" with info on battery variances that are actually quite tolerable by a device that was designed to use them stacked. Easiest thing to do is use paired 350s that you use and charge together that you use for stacking only, easy as that. Use a sharpie to mark if it makes it easier. I personally use flatops for stacking only and button tops for short mode and have them labeled 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 etc.

    So my answer is yes. Either a low volt drop (usually high amp rated) 350/650 or quality stacked 350s will get you a better vape than 1 350 as the vamo was "designed" for it.
     
  7. K_Tech

    K_Tech Slightly mad but harmless Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2013
    Eastern Ohio, USA
    It seems that the Vamo can lower voltage on stacked batteries better than it boosts voltage on a single battery.

    I don't think it was a Vamo, but PBusardo has a video where he tested and charted the output on a VV/VW mod using single and stacked batteries on various resistance coils at different voltage and power settings.
    Above a certain voltage/power setting the single battery configuration just kind or petered out, while stacked batteries stayed pretty strong all the way to the max.

    Although I don't vape at high power, I use stacked 18350's for consistency and better control.

    Edited to add that I do the same on my Zmax.
     
  8. footbag

    footbag Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 28, 2010
    NEPA
    OK. I have been using safe battery procedures.

    I guess that's just the way it works. I'd rather use it in shorty mode, but not at the expense of flavor.

    Guess I'll stick to the doubles.
     
  9. Coastal Cowboy

    Coastal Cowboy This aggression will not stand, man! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 13, 2013
    Alabama Gulf Coast
    You can stack batteries in the Vamo. The device is designed for it, unlike many other APV's that are not specifically designed for it.

    However, you have to follow a very strict protocol in order to do it safely.

    http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vamo/452155-batteries-2.html#post10920157

    Those two grey D.K.L. "900" mAh batteries really aren't well suited for this purpose. If I were going to stack 350's, I would use brand new AW IMR 350's and they'd be paired forever.
     
  10. Coastal Cowboy

    Coastal Cowboy This aggression will not stand, man! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 13, 2013
    Alabama Gulf Coast
    I'm coming around to the idea of stacking 350's in the Vamo. I haven't done it because I have yet to purchase a dedicated pair of high quality batteries for that purpose.

    However, the mod is specifically designed to allow stacking, which if done properly, gives the device a solid advantage over other devices, even those priced considerably higher.

    I was once of the opinion that one should never, EVER stack batteries in a device. While doing so will always and everywhere increase the risk factor, the fact that the Vamo has the ability to detect the higher voltage of the cell(s) installed and adjust performance based on the voltage detected is a big plus.
     
  11. vicflo

    vicflo Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 25, 2009
    Virginia
    Just to note: Every so often if im ever using stacked batteries i meter them individually when they hit ~7v either in the device if im not home or with a multimeter. If there is a ~.5v difference i toss them (or mark them for single use... but you can see where that would go wrong). Out of 8 pairs of flat tops over the course of 1.5 years ive only had to throw away one.

    20131012_025404-2.jpg

    this ghetto yet functional simple to make atrocity sits next to my charger and kind of helps keep the battery rotation in order instead of me picking through a pile of batteries and having to look at each one. easy to rotate even singles. just pick a direction and keep putting the freshly charged at the back of the line and pick up the rested ones from the front. there is 1 empty spot that i failed to line up in the picture.

    For future reference of people that have to see this horrid picture the other ones kept saying it was too big to upload... my other one is actually symetrical sanded and stained. 3/8" spade bit fits 18xxx batteries like a glove.

    But like some others ive gotten used to lugging around the ncr18650b around. A pair of LG18650D1s is on the way here for me to test out.
     
  12. donesmokin

    donesmokin Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 20, 2011
    NE Oregon
    I've been a confirmed stacker almost from the start of my vaping career. The LavaTube proved to me that single battery operation was less than ideal. As the battery discharged the vape suffered. Regulating two batteries down just works better than boosting one battery up IMO. I think the danger isn't so much stacking in a PV but cheapo chargers. One set of IMR 18350s overcharged and ruined. MAN those things got hot!
     
  13. Trayce

    Trayce Moved On ECF Veteran

    Mar 28, 2013
    Multiversal
    I am satisfied with one 18650 but if I were to stack I would certainly get a really excellent charger (like the one I got :D ), especially if new to vaping / working with batts. This charger costs $45 after an applied FB10 coupon code for 10% off and it's free shipping: Xtar VP1 Digital Charger (digital display)

    There are a few things that make it different and better than most chargers used for vaping. First, it has a built-in volt meter accurate to .02v and an LED readout that shows you the charge state of each battery mounted in the charger. So when you put one in for re-charging, it will show (for example) 3.58v ... then as it charges it the volts rise until it reaches 4.19 - 4.20 at which time it shuts off the charge until the batt starts to lose charge again, then it charges it back up to the 4.19 - 4.20. So unlike other chargers, it is actually made to leave the batts in it, unattended, and it will keep them ready for use.

    It also has another neat feature... you can set the charge rate by pressing a button to toggle through the choices: 250ma, 500ma, or 1amp. The LED window shows what the selected charge rate is, battery state, and there's an animated progress bar (like cell phones have). I keep mine to 250ma as it is better to charge slowly if you have the time. EDIT: Forgot to add it also comes with a DC car adapter!

    I absolutely LOVE this charger as I never have to get out the VM to test the batts... I can see at a glance what the volts are. And it's perfect for using with a new pair of batts for stacking. It charges, monitors and maintains each bay separately, and each bay has its own readout. Also, I have touched the batts when charging and they are never warm.

    Aside from all this, (and now this goes way over my head) it uses the recommended algorithms for charging.

    The NiteCore charger costs about half as much (and is highly recommended), but I'd rather pay $20 more to not have to use a separate volt meter, and to see at a glance that my batts are in good shape. Especially if stacking, I would not be without this thing. And because I have it, if I ever decided to try stacking, I'd feel pretty safe because of this charger (and the fact that the Vamo is made for stacking and has safety precautions built-in).
     
  14. donesmokin

    donesmokin Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 20, 2011
    NE Oregon
    The XP1 looks like a really nice one. I already had 5 chargers including an i4 when it came out though. I have had some success at curbing my e-cig spending...LOL!
     
  15. Denrock316

    Denrock316 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2010
    Ohio, USA
    I just recently got a Nitecore i2 it gets quite warm when charging is this normal? (It's only about 1 week old)
     
  16. Coastal Cowboy

    Coastal Cowboy This aggression will not stand, man! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 13, 2013
    Alabama Gulf Coast
    I have military spec Nitecore I2 and I4 chargers. Both will get slightly warm when charging more than one battery.

    If it gets HOT, toss it.

    All electronic devices fail sooner or later.
     
  17. donesmokin

    donesmokin Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 20, 2011
    NE Oregon
    Now you make me wish I'd touched the i4 as well as the protected 18650s that were getting hot in it Denrock! Hate to toss four batts but I'm about to. I'll put them on the charger and see. Just read through the reviews of the i2 on Amazon. The only comment about heat was "stays fairly cool". What batts are you charging?
     
  18. donesmokin

    donesmokin Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 20, 2011
    NE Oregon
    Military spec?
     
  19. Denrock316

    Denrock316 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2010
    Ohio, USA
    2 AW IMR 18650s (new), It only gets a little warm when charging 2 16340s it doesn't get what I would consider hot with 18650s just a bit warmer than with the 16340s.

    Oh I Just wanted to add last time I charged with it I had it plugged in a socket with a bunch of other things tonight when I charge some batteries again it's got it's own socket all to itself I wonder if it will make any difference.
     
  20. vicflo

    vicflo Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 25, 2009
    Virginia
    I have my chargers on slightly raised on a old gutted out cd rom drives sheet metal casing. behind that i have a good old trusty holmes desk hepa filter that blows over and under it.

    i use nitecore chargers as well. the casing of it is almost always somewhat cool to the touch. pictures that ive come across of chargers/batteries exploding tended to be in poorly ventilated areas. simply keeping your charging devices and batteries cool can prevent them from going over that domino effect of a thermal ledge (heat = more resistance = more heat...etc). It also keeps them more efficient and improves longevity (kind of a blanket statement for pretty much all electronics).

    Sounds like overkill but it all sits behind my head. when im working throughout the day. just flick a switch before i go to bed and i dont have to worry about a thing.
     
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