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U.S.A: PACT Act 2009

Discussion in 'Law and the E-Cigarette' started by AngeLsLuv, Sep 11, 2009.

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  1. AngeLsLuv

    AngeLsLuv Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 5, 2009
    Lake Ariel, PA.
    THE SITUATION: Right now there is legislation pending in the United States Senate - the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009 (“PACT Act”) (S.1147) which contains, among otherbad ideas, a provision to make ALL cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products nonmailable. This legislation has already been passed by the House of Representatives and is currently in a Senate Committee that could send it to the Senate floor at any time for a vote!

    WHAT THIS MEANS TO YOU: By making all cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products nonmailable, the Senate is ensuring you will no longer be able to purchase these products by
    mail-order, telephone order, and/or the Internet because the United States Postal Service, along with UPS, Fed-Ex and all other carriers will be prohibited by law from delivering your orders
    to you. Taking away your options means forcing you back to buying over-priced tobacco products from your local retailer once again.

    WHAT YOU CAN DO: Contact your Senators and tell them not to pass the PACT Act. Your Senators should be protecting your interests, but it is up to you to let them know what you think about the PACT Act. There are three easy ways to contact your Senators - by telephone, email, or regular mail - all of which are explained below. Every state has two Senators - please remember to contact BOTH Senators for your state. At this point time is crucial, so a phone call is by far the best means to use!

    THE POSTAL SERVICE: The price of stamps is being raised practically every year. The PACT Act will take an entire class of legal, non-hazardous goods and make them nonmailable. What this
    means is a huge loss of business (potentially hundreds of millions of dollars) for the Postal Service. Will they continue to raise the price of stamps and other mail services to compensate for their lost
    income? The United States Postal Service is already suffering a fiscal crisis due to the downturn in the economy. If the PACT Act is passed and millions of dollars of revenue are taken away, there could be serious consequences for consumers, including reducing the number of delivery days from 6 per week down to 5 or perhaps only 4 days per week.

    COST: When the PACT Act of 2003 (S.1177) passed the Senate, the Congressional Budget Office prepared a Cost Estimate for the Bill. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that the PACT Act
    of 2003 would cost about $140 MILLION over the 2004-2008 period to enforce. $140 Million over four years - and that estimate is already six years old. How much will the PACT Act of 2009 cost to enforce? Isn’t there a better way to spend our tax dollars?
  2. doots

    doots Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2009
    Hi Everyone,

    Correct me I'm wrong. PV's and Juice arent tobacco products.
    Where is the tobacco in any of these products?
    How can these be considered contra-ban under this law, if passed?
  3. Mac

    Mac Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    All though that may have been true once the SE court case may change things. The court hearing comes down to a simple decision. If e-cigs are ruled a tobacco product they will be left on the market. If they are not then they become a drug device combo and immediately banned. So they are about to be either 1 a tobacco product or 2 completely banned.

    Sucks doesn't it?
  4. ckc

    ckc Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 3, 2009
    Internet sales are already being set up to be watched:-

    To make sure that Florida actually acquires that revenue, lawmakers for the first time ordered regulators to begin tracking down Internet tobacco sales. Department of Business and Professional Regulation press secretary Alexis Antonacci Lambert said administrators are hiring seven people to begin the hunt.

    Convenience Store Decisions
  5. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    This bill has created near-panic on the snus forums. It will shut down shipments of snus from Sweden, dissolvables I buy from Seneca Indian Reservations, nasal snuff from England, pipe tobacco custom-blended in Kentucky. The wording in it is a sham about terrorists profiting from contraband cigarettes; the bill's real purpose is clear -- collect state taxes now being lost on Internet sales.

    E-cigs will be added to restricted items, even if they are not a tobacco product. Bet on that. Again, the goal is the herd all nicotine addicts to cigarettes sold in local tobacco stores only, fully regulated and massively taxed.

    I'm not concerned only with e-smoking doors closing. I'm concerned with virtually every smoking alternative being effectively banned by this bill. This bill has a potentially more devastating impact than the Family Smoking etc. that gave the FDA authority over tobacco products.
  6. doots

    doots Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2009
    yes it all does suck!
  7. PlanetScribbles

    PlanetScribbles Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 3, 2009
    Londinium, Brittania
    Is this where the phrase 'stuck between a rock and a hard place' comes from?
  8. DaMulta

    DaMulta Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 18, 2009
    T-Town Oklahoma
    Like they won't pass it if u write to them complaining. It's all about the money.....smokers never win, and I don't see people that vape TAX free win anytime soon....

    BARENETTED Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 22, 2009
    Mark my words - that PACT ACT will pass with flying colors.

    Do you know how much tax revenue is lost by people ordering out of state? Butts are 75.00 a carton here in NJ. I know lots of people who internet order for about 40.00. However, I know lots of folks that got caught and had to pay thousands back! Ecigs will follow. They are not going to let us get off free! They want our money even if they have to kill us for it! :mad:
  10. solonguniverse

    solonguniverse Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 8, 2009
    Missouri, USA
    They can tax the hell out of it if they want. It'll still be cheap and I'll still get to vape. If all they want is my money and not my cancerous corpse, I don't mind too much.
  11. kristin

    kristin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 16, 2009
    CASAA - Wisconsin
    Why do these have to be considered either? Nicotine is a drug, but is it only a MEDICINE?

    Caffeine is a drug, but it's not considered a medicine. Soda cans aren't considered a medical device to deliver caffeine to stop drinking coffee. Not all caffeine-containing products must be classified as a "coffee product." Why must liquid nicotine be considered either a tobacco product or a medical product? Alcohol is used in medical applications (Nyquil), yet beer tappers aren't considered medical devices.

    Why can't it be called what it is? Recreational Nicotine.
  12. Crash

    Crash Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 27, 2009
    Karachi, Pakistan
    God it must suck to live in America.
  13. solonguniverse

    solonguniverse Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 8, 2009
    Missouri, USA
    They're not the only country with ridiculous taxes and an impending ban on e-cigarettes, but it does suck sometimes. Quite a few countries have already banned them and more on the way.
  14. Crash

    Crash Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 27, 2009
    Karachi, Pakistan
    Yea but they are the only ones dragging it out and creating all the drama. Ne how I can make all my own stuff so I wont be affected just need to stock up on a life time of atties.
  15. seminolewind

    seminolewind Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 5, 2009
    Corydon Indiana
    If e-liquid is a tobacco product, does that mean that the patch, lozenge, gum, etc are tobacco products as well?
  16. kristin

    kristin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 16, 2009
    CASAA - Wisconsin
    No, those are considered medicinal drugs, with the intent to treat nicotine addiction. Not intended for continued use.
  17. Pandora

    Pandora Senior Member

    Sep 10, 2009
    Michigan, USA
    I said this in a different post, but I'll say it again here - in addition to contacting congressmen and signing petitions, who wants to get together and write to talk show hosts? Seriously, it will bring more attention to the issue and help educate people. I haven't even started vaping yet lol, but I'm down to help out. I don't have enough education to write about the topic yet (although this forum is helping me get there quickly), but I am an excellent writer/editor. I'll lend a hand if I can.
  18. solonguniverse

    solonguniverse Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 8, 2009
    Missouri, USA
    I don't necessarily believe in the democratic process at all times, but "dragging it out" is just another way of saying taking in all viewpoints before making a decision. The motives behind their final decisions aren't always the most pure, but in the months following the initial controversy surrounding e-cigarettes they have at least pretended to discuss the issue.
  19. Mac

    Mac Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    If by "rock" you mean corrupt and oppressive government and by "hard place" you mean greedy parasitic corporations seeking to profit from the exploitation of humanity then yes.
  20. Krel

    Krel Full Member

    Why can't the be categorized like food or Caffeine? Why does it keep coming back to the drug/deliverything when I get more kick from my Redbull in the morning?
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