Understanding the difference between IKV atomizers

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Rocketfish

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I see on the madvapes page that some are listed as US made components, some are not. Then there is the i06 which I understand is a different beast all together.:confused:

I would love a comparison page that breaks it down for the ignorant like me!

Please help a confused beginner out. I'm not new to vaping, but very new to high end atomizers. It seems a bit of a waste to use Joye LR306s on a Darwin, not that the Darwin doesn't make them perform, just that this could be the final link in a delicious tasty package.

I am also thinking of some of the 901/510s to fit my nice Super-T stainless drip tip.
Flavor is a big priority for me though, second place is vapor production/throat hit tied.
 

caged

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So the internals are different than the other IKV atomizers? But on the page it says that was the FIRST one, which would imply that all the others came later, and therefore might have better flavor?

What page says what was the first one?

The IKV 901 is great. Definitely try it.

Ikenvape uses his own US made heating coils in most of his atties for longer life. He's also known to tweak designs.
 

Crazy Canuck

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Taste is fantastic on the I06. I only received one in the beta test & it is still going strong. My only mistake was putting a juice in it that I don't like, and I can still "taste" hints of it. I will order more when the site comes back up. Fortunately, I have 4 dozen Fusions to keep me content.
A vodka bath and a rinse should get that flavor out for you :) I had to do that after a vape meet last week, and it worked like a charm.
 

Switched

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I see on the Madvapes page that some are listed as US made components, some are not. Then there is the i06 which I understand is a different beast all together.:confused:

I would love a comparison page that breaks it down for the ignorant like me!

Please help a confused beginner out. I'm not new to vaping, but very new to high end atomizers. It seems a bit of a waste to use Joye LR306s on a Darwin, not that the Darwin doesn't make them perform, just that this could be the final link in a delicious tasty package.

I am also thinking of some of the 901/510s to fit my nice Super-T stainless drip tip.
Flavor is a big priority for me though, second place is vapor production/throat hit tied.

The difference cannot and will not be explained, technically at least. You need to try them. They are rebuilt from the bottom up tp specific specs (read proprietary). The IO6 out shined the HH357 so it has been said. I missed that portion of the show :(

For example I prefer the 1.8Ohm over the 1.5Ohm. Folks do get hung up on numbers, I don't I go on performance :) ... and the design of the 1.8Ohm is akin to a 1.5 :):) You have to try them.
 

Rocketfish

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Ok, but I'm inclined to approach first from a technical end before getting into the variations. For arguments sake, they fall into 3 categories? The i06 which is a totally different atomizer though based on the 306. The 510 and 901 variations with USA made heating elements, and those produced to IKV specs overseas?

Which category came first, I'm assuming the latest will have the most improvement?

I like the idea of the i06, but I'm also considering a DCA, which would fix other issues for me, but will not accept the larger diameter I believe? Trying them all isn't feasible for me. I could try a couple, which is why I'm trying to narrow it down to a couple of choices, or understand which I should try if I don't like one or the other for some reason. I'll get an I06, though the lack of ability to use my drip tips that the DCA will allow is a bit of a downer, I don't like plastic tips in any way.

What are fusions?

EDIT: Nevermind don't want fusions.


I'm trying to decide between the 3.5 and the 1.8omh I06(I have a Darwin) and between HV and LR for the 510s too(also what is a 510 mini?) Thinking of an 801. It's all these choices, and the variations between each that move this out of the affordable and into the confusing range of pricing! I usually like to get 2 of any atomizer just to account for QC variations etc.
 
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Switched

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Well that is a little clearer :)

With the Darwin you do not need HV atties perse because you can vary the wattage to get the zing :) HV atties have a rather short life span when compared to STD resistance of 2.2Ohm.

Wrt the DCA this is/was interesting The Haze Hour 29-09. It is clearly stated that they need to go back and offer the various tops for them rather than the one size fits all as it is clear that it doesn't perform as advertised.

To answer your Q, if I had a Darwin I would be looking at 1.8 - 2.5 Ohm. Hope this helps.
 

Wharf Rat

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So that's interesting Switcher.

I've been told with VV (Buzz Pro) to use HV vs LR. And since I don't have a 2.+v option, you would recommend the 1.8 over the 3.5 i06? I am looking for the best flavor and good vp.

Now batt life is not a high priority, and if more amps stresses the electronics more I probably OK with that too. BUT it has been floated here and on another forum that pulling more amps stresses the batts and could or does cause gasses to be released from the batts. NOW that concerns me, but I could not find any info to support that. Have you run across anything like that.

While I'm asking, I'm using 1.8v atty with an AW ICR 10440 350 mAh. I read no LR with batts under 400+ mAh. Is that just for stick batts or in general.
 

Switched

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So that's interesting Switcher.

I've been told with VV (Buzz Pro) to use HV vs LR. And since I don't have a 2.+v option, you would recommend the 1.8 over the 3.5 i06? I am looking for the best flavor and good vp.

Heat in general takes away from the flavour IMO and experience. That being said there is the odd liquid that will shine with higher voltage than 3.7, this is where VV or VW comes in

Now batt life is not a high priority, and if more amps stresses the electronics more I probably OK with that too. BUT it has been floated here and on another forum that pulling more amps stresses the batts and could or does cause gasses to be released from the batts. NOW that concerns me, but I could not find any info to support that. Have you run across anything like that.

The statement is factual but not the context. Someone merely repeated data out of context. Yes you will stress the batts if you ask for more current than what the batt is capable of delivering. On protected batts, the PCB will shut the batt down, on unprotected batts it won't shut down.

Without getting into too many details, stressing the batt reduces its overall life. Stressing a battery causes rock content to form at an accelerated pace inside the battery. This formation of sludge for the lack of a better word also increases the internal resistance of the battery and current no longer flows freely. As this continues the formation of the rock content is accelerated and the vicious circle continues.

There is always a possibility of batteries venting (IMRs, LifePo) or venting with flame (LI Ion). The y do not vent gases as they are being stressed perse but rather will vent when they are in thermal run away.

While I'm asking, I'm using 1.8v atty with an AW ICR 10440 350 mAh. I read no LR with batts under 400+ mAh. Is that just for stick batts or in general.
Short answer for that one. 10440 cells are passe and no longer have a useful purpose in the vaping industry. The cell is not capable to deliver sufficient current to a std atty let alone an LR.
 

Wharf Rat

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Heat in general takes away from the flavour IMO and experience. That being said there is the odd liquid that will shine with higher voltage than 3.7, this is where VV or VW comes in

Thank you as always...... great info. You make me think and the my beliefs and knowledge, and that doesn't seem to happen enough.

OK, this doesn't make sense, yet verifies personal experience. It seems to me that LRs are not as hot as HV when I try to vape the same wattage (I don't account any load differential). The only time I've experienced more flavor on HV is on an i06, though my only Lr i06 was too tight too draw.
 

Rocketfish

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Hmm. This is interesting, because people talk about being able to fill a room with vapor(must be an exageration?) I have tended to use LR attys because my previous gear would handle the load but didn't have the voltage. What you are saying is that a standard resistance atomizer is best? Except that most of the IKV stuff I see is either LR or HV, not much in the middle(1.8 or 3.5 as Wharf rat commented on, nothing at 2.2-3ohms). I was really hoping for more flavor and vapor. My LR510s do better in the vapor department than the LR306s but the taste isn't as good. I was hoping driving a HV atty at the same wattage(but higher voltage) would create more vapor and taste, since I would have the same number of watts running through a coil with more surface area.

I currently run all my LR stuff between 4.2 and 6.4 watts, any higher and I get burn tastes.
I was thinking a HV atty would allow me to run at 8.4 to 10watts.


I really don't understand the point of HV stuff if this is not the case, if a LR atty is giving me the maximum vapor and flavor, why vape higher resistance and a higher voltage at all?

If there was a stainless drip tip(or even anodized) for the i06, I'd go for it, but I'm moving away from plastic tips(and can't live without a drip tip!) The supplier that has i06s, hasn't got any drip tips at all for them, not being able to drip is not so great. I could get by on a plastic drip tip for the mean time, but having just switched from a cisco 2.0 306 to a 2.3 Joye LR510 when I got home, I'm getting way more vapor(I can run higher wattage without issues too, vaping at 8.4 right now). Part of this I think is due to the metal body and stainless drip tip acting like a heat sink to transfer heat away from the atty(I can feel it on my lip, I suspect this provides some cooling via bloodflow like high powered LED flashlights rely on. I assumed the other part came from the higher resistance allowing use of more watts.

If there was an i06 DCA, or stainless steel drip tip I'd be set I'm sure:)

RE: atty lifespan, I haven't found an issue with this at all, I've never managed to kill an atty through vaping(I only use them a day or two before they get set aside to get washed with water and denture cleaner in a bottle) the oldest is 3 months, and its gotten to the point where it still works but vapor production is way down. I meant to pick your brains about cleaning and why or why not, but perhaps that's best saved for another thread:). I can't stand the taste and scratchy throat that arrives on day 2 or 3 of using the same atty.
 
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Switched

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Hmm. This is interesting, because people talk about being able to fill a room with vapor(must be an exageration?) I have tended to use LR attys because my previous gear would handle the load but didn't have the voltage. What you are saying is that a standard resistance atomizer is best? Except that most of the IKV stuff I see is either LR or HV, not much in the middle(1.8 or 3.5 as Wharf rat commented on, nothing at 2.2-3ohms). I was really hoping for more flavor and vapor. My LR510s do better in the vapor department than the LR306s but the taste isn't as good. I was hoping driving a HV atty at the same wattage(but higher voltage) would create more vapor and taste, since I would have the same number of watts running through a coil with more surface area.

I can fill a room with smoke, that is easy I vape 100% VG :lol: but still a metaphor to describe the atty is a vapour producer.

Technically speaking yes. A std is better than LR or HV. But each has a specific function and this is where you see all the time "YMMV"

I currently run all my LR stuff between 4.2 and 6.4 watts, any higher and I get burn tastes.
I was thinking a HV atty would allow me to run at 8.4 to 10watts.
... and they will, it all depends what you are trying to achieve.

chart.jpg


Prior to VV coming out one had to play with resistance and voltages to achieve their goal. With the darwin if one knows his sweet spot you simply dial in the wattage and vape away regardless of what atty is on the device.

For example I example I vape XHV 5.2 at 6V, and 2.5 at 5V. I also vape 3.5 at 6V. What do these figures mean? I prefer my vape at 7-8 watts, but do have the capability to go higher if desired at the risk of popping atties. e.g the XHV will give me 10W at 7.4 volts but the 3.5 will pop with fresh batteries as the batts are putting out 8.4.

I really don't understand the point of HV stuff if this is not the case, if a LR atty is giving me the maximum vapor and flavor, why vape higher resistance and a higher voltage at all?

it is funny know that the darwin is out that folks are coming to find out that there sweet spot lies between 4.2-4.5/7 volts, which is 7-8 watts. That is what the darwin has demonstrated as the darwin shows the voltage under load.

If there was a stainless drip tip(or even anodized) for the i06, I'd go for it, but I'm moving away from plastic tips(and can't live without a drip tip!) The supplier that has i06s, hasn't got any drip tips at all for them, not being able to drip is not so great. I could get by on a plastic drip tip for the mean time, but having just switched from a cisco 2.0 306 to a 2.3 Joye LR510 when I got home, I'm getting way more vapor(I can run higher wattage without issues too, vaping at 8.4 right now). Part of this I think is due to the metal body and stainless drip tip acting like a heat sink to transfer heat away from the atty(I can feel it on my lip, I suspect this provides some cooling via bloodflow like high powered LED flashlights rely on. I assumed the other part came from the higher resistance allowing use of more watts.

... and you will more coil wraps on the 510 than the cisco. Once again the chart explains what is going on.

If there was an i06 DCA, or stainless steel drip tip I'd be set I'm sure:)

A stainless steel drip tip won't do much for you, but a DCA may, as the atty will retain the heat similar to an eGo. OTOH will not preheat the incoming air as an eGo.

RE: atty lifespan, I haven't found an issue with this at all, I've never managed to kill an atty through vaping(I only use them a day or two before they get set aside to get washed with water and denture cleaner in a bottle) the oldest is 3 months, and its gotten to the point where it still works but vapor production is way down. I meant to pick your brains about cleaning and why or why not, but perhaps that's best saved for another thread:). I can't stand the taste and scratchy throat that arrives on day 2 or 3 of using the same atty.

I don't clean and I don't dry burn. They get a blow through from the mouth end every time they go wonky. This rids the atty of spent liquid ( a term I use to describe liquid that will no longer volatilize). Atties last me 4-6 month +, some longer (read rare).

Does HV have a place in someones arsenal? Yes, absolutely. Getting close to 20m of smoke free I find that my excursion in the 5V and up to be far in between. I vape the IO6 3.5 at 5V. Well looky here, it just happens to produce 7W on the GLV2 because the GLV2 puts out 5V loaded. OTOH I vape 'em on my P18 at 6V, you guessed it without looking tada :) 8.6W loaded.

In closing YMMV :)
 

5cardstud

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Switcher my man this is another example of people reading a statement and twisting it to their needs. I didn't say there was gases that were being inhaled as has been stated. To put it correctly I will reiterate. A battery converts chemical energy into electrical energy. This conversion is caused by chemical reactions inside the battery. The quicker the battery has to provide energy, the quicker those chemical reactions have to happen. If you make the battery work hard then some of the chemical energy is converted into electrical energy and some into heat energy. The heat energy makes the battery hot. The harder you make the battery work, the more chemical energy is converted into heat energy and the hotter the battery gets.
I personally ruined 3 sets of 16340 batteries while doin g extensive LR testing. Now as to the inhaling of gasses that was taken out of context and twisted around. My statement was. If these batteries are being stressed and these chemical reactions are taking place? I WONDER if these batteries are also giving off gases that we are inhaling? It was a question I posed that was used out of context. I will be a little more careful from now on when talking to this person and I will be making no more posts on any workings in the ecig industry. I will from now on be an observer.
 
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Wharf Rat

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Now batt life is not a high priority, and if more amps stresses the electronics more I probably OK with that too. BUT it has been floated here and on another forum that pulling more amps stresses the batts and could or does cause gasses to be released from the batts. NOW that concerns me, but I could not find any info to support that. Have you run across anything like that.

Switcher my man this is another example of people reading a statement and twisting it to their needs. I didn't say there was gases that were being inhaled as has been stated. To put it correctly I will reiterate. A battery converts chemical energy into electrical energy. This conversion is caused by chemical reactions inside the battery. The quicker the battery has to provide energy, the quicker those chemical reactions have to happen. If you make the battery work hard then some of the chemical energy is converted into electrical energy and some into heat energy. The heat energy makes the battery hot. The harder you make the battery work, the more chemical energy is converted into heat energy and the hotter the battery gets.
I personally ruined 3 sets of 16340 batteries while doin g extensive LR testing. Now as to the inhaling of gasses that was taken out of context and twisted around. My statement was. If these batteries are being stressed and these chemical reactions are taking place? I WONDER if these batteries are also giving off gases that we are inhaling? It was a question I posed that was used out of context. I will be a little more careful from now on when talking to this person and I will be making no more posts on any workings in the ecig industry. I will from now on be an observer.


OUCH !!!! 5C, It's me Wharf Rat, Nick the Greek.............. And now I'm this person ???

5C I count you as a close ECF friend. Iv'e learned more from Switcher and You than anybody else here that I can think of.

You made a post here and in our other thread " I WONDER if these batteries are also giving off gases that we are inhaling", in regards to using LRs on a VV. If that's true, it scares the HELL out of me. I tried to find any info I could on that. I went to Battery U and couldn't.

The discussion was on VW and atty resistance, hence the question to Switcher.

PLEASE re-read my post. This is not another example of people reading a statement and twisting it to their needs. I NEVER said anything about gasses being inhaled in my post.

This was a serious question to a serious concern. And nowhere did I take this out of context.

13 months ago, I knew little to nothing about electrical engineering? and how all this e-cig world worked. I've learned a lot in that time and always trying to learn more, hence the post. I've questioned Switcher's statements and when I questioned one of yours, you reply with "I will be a little more careful from now on when talking to this person"? I hope and pray that's not the case because Iv'e learned, laughed and had a enriched year with you. AND I would like that to continue.

If I can't question something you say, is there any way to have a discussion? I hope that you will not be an Observer, but know my friend, that I my question again.
 

Rocketfish

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Good to know, so you would recommend the i06 in 3.5 ohm then on the Darwin(vs the 1.8). I realize part of it is childishness, I HAVE 4.2-12.8 watts available, I want to use them all:)It's funny that you mention the 8 watt thing though, I find I can only tolerate 6 watts on a LR306, and even then the flavor is slightly reduced, So more coil wraps equals higher surface area, roughly? Does a HV atty have more surface area(and does this in fact mean higher wattage output possible without increasing the temperature at a given point on the surface) or an LR one in the same atomizer line?
I will be switching my standard orders to regular resistance again, thank you for your patience, and the insights you have provided me. I feel I am gradually getting to the point where my vaping habits are settling into a routine, and with consistent quality, and standardizing my equipment.

The stainless drip tip is partly for the heat sink effect(which I assume would still occur if somebody made an innie instead of an outie for lack of a better term). It's also just personal preference, I don't like sticking a bit of plastic in my mouth all day and heating it up. In the interim, what would you recommend if I want a drip tip on an i06, is there anything at all available, I know it won't fit in a DCA due to increased diameter, but are there any drip tips for them at all? I was planning to order several from maple leaf vapes, but if I have to take the cap off every time to drip it will be quite frustrating.

YMMV indeed, especially on cleaning, unfortunately, I just cannot stand an uncleaned atty for more than a day. I tried blowing them out and even flushing with a bit of fresh juice, just because I would like to agree with people who know a hell of a lot more about what goes on inside them(you mentioned something about cleaning reducing core life somewhere I think?). Unfortunately, no matter what I try, the slightly off taste/scratchy throat problem remains, switching to a new atty fixes this. Cleaning with a denture tablet is the closest I've found to making it new again, and I will tolerate some reduction in lifespan for that. If not cleaning them results in them not dying and tasting good(your experience), and cleaning them thoroughly does as well(my experience), how the heck are people killing them in the first place? It was the hassle of cleaning, and the still bad taste that drove me away from vaping the first time, the denture tablet was a marvelous discovery for me, before that I had resorted to tolerating bad tastes, and getting a new atty in the mix as a treat once in a while.
 

Switched

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Good to know, so you would recommend the i06 in 3.5 ohm then on the Darwin(vs the 1.8). I realize part of it is childishness, I HAVE 4.2-12.8 watts available, I want to use them all:)It's funny that you mention the 8 watt thing though, I find I can only tolerate 6 watts on a LR306, and even then the flavor is slightly reduced, So more coil wraps equals higher surface area, roughly? Does a HV atty have more surface area(and does this in fact mean higher wattage output possible without increasing the temperature at a given point on the surface) or an LR one in the same atomizer line?

Understandable! re: trying out all the ranges. The magic number I mentioned seems to be the norm amongst seasoned vapers - whether it is a physical or psychological. I believe the former but also believe once we are finally rid of the effects of smoking and have cleansed our system of the effects of those 4000 chemicals, our brain function also slowly returns to normal placing less physical demand on our system.

I have a Bulli A2T rebuildable atomiser (prep for HC's zombie attack) so I will be playing with various wire thicknesses to see what is what.Technically speaking the thinner the wire the greater the resistance, the greater the resistance (in the wire) the more heat produced. My belief is that the more current you run through a thin wire, the badder it is for the wire, however you will get more heat.

A thicker wire provides less resistance for current to flow and thus generates less heat. That being said a greater number of coils is required to provide the resistance and hence a greater surface area which in theory should provide more vapour. Our limits in atomiser is coil size because of the space we work in. Isaac came to that conclusion when he tried to improve the 306 and increase its longevity. The only way he could was to have the atty bigger e.g the IO6. He/we found success.

I have seen atties with as few as 3 wraps for the coil and as many as 6 wraps. I do not remember the if there was a significant difference in performance of lifespan, I wasn't into the technical stuff back then, plus I wasn't vaping properly neither and never kept accurate notes.

I will be switching my standard orders to regular resistance again, thank you for your patience, and the insights you have provided me. I feel I am gradually getting to the point where my vaping habits are settling into a routine, and with consistent quality, and standardizing my equipment.
Good for you. Not a shameless plug here but if you want consistency, you have come to the right place. I have been shopping here exclusively (atties and cartos) since June 2010. I forgot to mention, I hated cartos with a passion.

The stainless drip tip is partly for the heat sink effect(which I assume would still occur if somebody made an innie instead of an outie for lack of a better term). It's also just personal preference, I don't like sticking a bit of plastic in my mouth all day and heating it up.

Some folks do not like to feel the heat on their lips, to each their own. Delrin is perfectly safe it is used in the food industry and the heat generated by the atty does not affect the tip - unless it touches the coil, then it will melt. Living in BC you cannot possibly fathom how cold a steel dript tip is during winter months. <---- This is where Delrin is welcomed :)

In the interim, what would you recommend if I want a drip tip on an i06, is there anything at all available, I know it won't fit in a DCA due to increased diameter, but are there any drip tips for them at all? I was planning to order several from maple leaf vapes, but if I have to take the cap off every time to drip it will be quite frustrating.

There is nothing wrong with the DTs presently available for the IO6. However I do recommend a good washing and thorough rinsing first with a swab of alcohol. I make delrin drip tips for the IO6, but they are specifically designed to fit the 7mm which is coming out soon, and will be available at each site as an extra for 7mm owners only. <---- the reason? the 7mm is a native 510 connection, the IO6 can be used. I did not want to go with another proprietary device.

YMMV indeed, especially on cleaning, unfortunately, I just cannot stand an uncleaned atty for more than a day. I tried blowing them out and even flushing with a bit of fresh juice, just because I would like to agree with people who know a hell of a lot more about what goes on inside them(you mentioned something about cleaning reducing core life somewhere I think?). Unfortunately, no matter what I try, the slightly off taste/scratchy throat problem remains, switching to a new atty fixes this. Cleaning with a denture tablet is the closest I've found to making it new again, and I will tolerate some reduction in lifespan for that. If not cleaning them results in them not dying and tasting good(your experience), and cleaning them thoroughly does as well(my experience), how the heck are people killing them in the first place? It was the hassle of cleaning, and the still bad taste that drove me away from vaping the first time, the denture tablet was a marvelous discovery for me, before that I had resorted to tolerating bad tastes, and getting a new atty in the mix as a treat once in a while.
I have done the pleuthora of cleaning methods out there to include but not limited to denture cleaner. My conclusion - it simply is not worth the hassle. A periodic flush with alcohol is all that is needed. That being said the liquid one vapes plays an important role in atty maintenance. But for all intent and purpose, I don't clean and don't dry burn. If an atty has served me well and requires cleaning, a trip to 5-6V usually cures what ails it until it gives up its life. However, once introduced to HV you can no longer vape that atty at 3.7V again, it will be a wimp.
 

5cardstud

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OUCH !!!! 5C, It's me Wharf Rat, Nick the Greek.............. And now I'm this person ???

5C I count you as a close ECF friend. Iv'e learned more from Switcher and You than anybody else here that I can think of.

You made a post here and in our other thread " I WONDER if these batteries are also giving off gases that we are inhaling", in regards to using LRs on a VV. If that's true, it scares the HELL out of me. I tried to find any info I could on that. I went to Battery U and couldn't.

The discussion was on VW and atty resistance, hence the question to Switcher.

PLEASE re-read my post. This is not another example of people reading a statement and twisting it to their needs. I NEVER said anything about gasses being inhaled in my post.

This was a serious question to a serious concern. And nowhere did I take this out of context.

13 months ago, I knew little to nothing about electrical engineering? and how all this e-cig world worked. I've learned a lot in that time and always trying to learn more, hence the post. I've questioned Switcher's statements and when I questioned one of yours, you reply with "I will be a little more careful from now on when talking to this person"? I hope and pray that's not the case because Iv'e learned, laughed and had a enriched year with you. AND I would like that to continue.

If I can't question something you say, is there any way to have a discussion? I hope that you will not be an Observer, but know my friend, that I my question again.

I put it that way to be polite but your statement
"BUT it has been floated here and on another forum that pulling more amps stresses the batts and could or does cause gasses to be released from the batts."
was a thing I was asking if anybody thought of the possibilities while these batteries were being stressed farther. I wasn't saying that was a fact. Beings it was ME who posed that question it was Me that sounds ..... So anyway I'm glad it came up because I know it was a mistake I made that I won't do again. Your still good and I wasn't trying to impugn you in any way and I apologize for coming off so harsh.
People can run LR, XLR, or XXXLR if they feel safe doing so on higher voltage mods and I will not be saying anything about it again. Be cool Buddy
 
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