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USA: Is Now the Time to Stockpile? What is your strategy for when the time does come?

Discussion in 'Law and the E-Cigarette' started by SnusAndSnuff, Feb 3, 2013.

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  1. SnusAndSnuff

    SnusAndSnuff Full Member

    Dec 27, 2012
    Northern California
    I am a new vaper. I have read a few posts here and there about how the FDA under the Obama Administration is "looking into" "regulating" PVAs, calling them "drug-delivery devices" and saying that "there is no proof they aren't just as dangerous as cigarettes"

    I don't know enough about this, nor do I have enough time to figure this out. My question is simple:
    • are they in the process of determining regulations RIGHT NOW,
    • or are they still formulating the framework for which they will begin to determine regulations?

    If it is the former, then it is absolutely the time for me to stockpile: remember what happened when Obama and his FDA cronies began "looking into" flavored cigarettes under the family/safety tobacco prevention nonsense? Surely they are not as stupid as they come off and will outright ban them. But maybe they are. Instead of hoping for the worst, if one has the money, they might as well be proactive.

    If it is the latter, then stockpiling isn't necessary, but if one has the money, as I do, then he should go about and stockpile for the hell of it.


    _____


    I'm still in the stage where I haven't even found an e-cigarette I like. Finiti locked you into their flavors. DSE-048 required too much effort to activate the automatic battery. eRoll kills all taste of flavoring. Over the next month I'm going to buy several, such as the J306, J510, JeGo, D-810, D-910, etc. and find a model or two that actually works for me.

    I also don't know how I would stockpile and would like some suggestions.

    Lets say a battery and an atomizer lasts a person 3 months, and they want to stockpile 60 years worth. Does it even make sense to buy 240 batteries and atomizers for storage over 60 years? Will they degrade within that time even if they are airsealed? I have several kilograms of pipe tobacco airsealed multiple times over which will be safe for centuries if kept out of heat. Will the same work for batteries and atomizers?

    How about nicotine juice, flavoring and PG?

    I realize that a lot of people on this forum believe that Obama is a great guy and would never outlaw access to nicotine base and PG, or never tax the hell out of it. I respect your opinion. Regardless, I am paranoid of all politicians and would just rather err on the side of paranoia.

    How, if I have money, should I go about stockpiling? What would you do?

    Is anyone else thinking of stockpiling (USA only)?
     
  2. ohnoitsthomas

    ohnoitsthomas Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 2, 2012
    United States
    Skipping the speculation about what could happen part and going straight to gear talk. ha

    Battery: Using a mod like a GGTS or a Provari that takes 18650-18350 would be the way to go for the long haul. They will never outlaw batteries that are used primarily for flashlights, so you don't have to stockpile and start worrying about shelf life.

    Atomizer: Getting into rebuildable attys or "RBA's" would be really the only reasonable choice. The wick and coil use standard materials that you can find just about anywhere and after a very small learning curve are very easy to use...and they work and taste better too! ha

    Juice: Still not 100% on this but I believe VG/PG and food flavoring will always be available so really all you'd want is a lot of straight up liquid nicotine which I believe you could just freeze.

    Not sure if all of this nerd talk was much help but this is pretty much my self sustaining master plan that I have cooked up.
     
  3. denali_41

    denali_41 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 7, 2011
    Over Der
    get ya some good solid devices,,include a mec mod that is easy to fix ,,a few types of rebuildables and some nic concentrate..

    everything else will still be available even after a 100% banning..should those idiots at FDA manage to get them banned
     
  4. tartanraven

    tartanraven Moved On ECF Veteran

    Nov 12, 2012
    St. Louis, MO
    if things get too out of hand, I'll just move back home to Scotland
     
  5. Hello World

    Hello World Super Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 20, 2012
    Vancouver
    One of 3 things is going to happen:

    1. Nothing.

    2. Regulated & taxed.

    3. Banned.

    "Nothing" is best only in that it has the least undesirable consequences all things considered.

    "Regulations" ... Gov't desired as it props up the tax base and "Saves Face" for BP. Can't regulate them one way and everyone else another.

    "Banned" won't happen, as it'll create a phenomenal amount of damage at this stage. In countries where nicotine importation and distribution is restricted, ie. "banned", no one pays any attention to such edicts and enforcement is limited to stopping the occasional package at customs. I wouldn't be surprised if at least 10 million people have already switched to e-cigs. Looking at companies like NJOY and BLU, they seem to be quite unconcerned by the amount of money they are blowing on adverting.

    All I can say is learn how to DIY and stock up. Worst gets to worst, you'll have to order from outside the USA which may be inconvenient and possibly a little more expensive, but the show will just go on.
     
  6. ohnoitsthomas

    ohnoitsthomas Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 2, 2012
    United States
    Like the way you think, ha.
     
  7. Petrodus

    Petrodus Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2010
    Midwest
    If they banned ecigs, would you stockpile?
    One of the longest running threads in this forum
    started Jan 2009 and still "Hot" ... Click Here
     
  8. zapped

    zapped Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    NO!!!! Not until I get my tax refund check back....then you can stockpile at will. :)
     
  9. Plumes.91

    Plumes.91 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 30, 2012
    United States
    Hello Word, your post is discouraging and Im too tired to go on but I will come back.
    Everyone, now is the time to fight. Do not lay back and watch what happens like a lazy cat.
     
  10. Hello World

    Hello World Super Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 20, 2012
    Vancouver
    I am not suggesting one not fight for their rights, but exactly what are you fighting for?

    You may have a different objective than I do, and I understand that, but if regulations mean tax increases plus making DIY illegal or subject to fines ... I'm sorry I don't support that anymore than I would support a ban. I mentioned this many times before, but e-cigs are expanding astronomically even in countries where they are restricted or illegal.

    Nicotine is a restricted substance, has been for a long time, it's just not been enforced. Secondly, I doubt that major players with big bucks like NJOY and BLU who have already been doing the heavy fighting through the courts could care less about DIYers, and are making a far larger splash than any of the various vaper blogs.

    Nonetheless, I routinely speak my voice by writing letters, commenting on news articles, etc. what else do you want to do to fight? Personally I think telling others about the benefits of e-cigs is the best way to fight back, because I have more faith in the products and it's benefits to individuals than whatever lawmakers or any bureaucracy wants to do with it.

    I wouldn't fight for regulations, I don't consider that any improvement, but that's what's gonna happen in due time. I won't be subjected to $20 for a 10ml bottle/cartridge of e-juice, sorry not voting for that. I'm also quite sure NJOY and BLU would rather see DIYers regulated at some point so we are forced to buy their products. Too many different interests within interests.
     
  11. Petrodus

    Petrodus Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2010
    Midwest
    World isn't a Goom & Doomer but a "Realist"
    Big Difference

    Hi, World
    1948 was a good year
    :p
     
  12. hvac999

    hvac999 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 21, 2010
    Charlotte, NC
    The FDA normally does not do things immediately. There will be a period to stockpile. But then again, EVERYBODY will be stockpiling so all items may be difficult to get during that period. SO, Stockpiling will NOT hurt.
     
  13. Iron Molly

    Iron Molly Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 27, 2010
    State of Anxiety
    It's unlikely that hardware could be banned, as it can be used with zero nic juice. PG and VG are used for many other things, as are flavorings. The thing that may become difficult/expensive to get is nic liquid at your desired strength.

    Me, I have back ups for the back ups anyhow, but I have stashed some extra nic liquid in case things go south. I agree that impending regulations will start a stampede. When I first started vaping everyone was awaiting the decision on E-cigs as a medical device. Which thankfully the FDA lost that battle. Let's hope they lose this one as well!
     
  14. HandbananA

    HandbananA Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 24, 2012
    USA, Florida
    Hmmm read this excerpt from wikipedia about magerine and tell me what you think. It really shows the government only cares about itself. If your not in bed with their freinds then you are the enemy and need to be banned,taxed,etc.


    As early as 1877, the first United States (U.S.) states had passed laws to restrict the sale and labeling of margarine. By the mid-1880s, the U.S. federal government had introduced a tax of two cents per pound, and manufacturers needed an expensive license to make or sell the product. Individual states began to require the clear labeling of margarine. The color bans, drafted by the butter lobby, began in the dairy states of New York and New Jersey. In several states, legislatures enacted laws to require margarine manufacturers to add pink colorings to make the product look unpalatable,[54] but the Supreme Court struck down New Hampshire's law and overruled these measures in Collins v. New Hampshire, 171 U.S. 30 (1898). Some localities required restaurants using margarine to post signs reading "Artificial Butter Used Here".

    By the start of the 20th century, eight out of ten Americans could not buy yellow margarine, and those that could had to pay a hefty tax on it. Bootleg colored margarine became common, and manufacturers began to supply food-coloring capsules so that the consumer could knead the yellow color into margarine before serving it. Nevertheless, the regulations and taxes had a significant effect: the 1902 restrictions on margarine color, for example, cut annual U.S. consumption from 120,000,000 to 48,000,000 pounds (54,000 to 22,000 t).

    With the coming of World War I, margarine consumption increased enormously, even in countries away from the front like the U.S. In the countries closest to the fighting, dairy products became almost unobtainable and were strictly rationed. The United Kingdom, for example, depended on imported butter from Australia and New Zealand, and the risk of submarine attack meant little arrived.

    The long-running rent-seeking battle between the margarine and dairy lobbies continued: In the U.S., the Great Depression brought a renewed wave of pro-dairy legislation; the Second World War, a swing back to margarine. Post-war, the margarine lobby gained power and, little by little, the main margarine restrictions were lifted, the most recent states to do so being Minnesota in 1963 and Wisconsin in 1967.[55][56] Lois Dowdle Cobb (1889–1987) of Atlanta, Georgia, wife of the agricultural publisher Cully Cobb, led the move in the United States to lift the restrictions on margarine.[57] Some unenforced laws remain on the books.[58][59]

    source: copy & pasted from Wikipedia
     
  15. CDalio

    CDalio Full Member

    Jul 23, 2012
    Ft Myers, FL USA
    I would not put too much faith in the actions of "BLU"... My understanding is that product is owned, distributed, and marketed by Lorillard through thier existing merchants... It is the first "big tobacco" entry into the ecig world that I know of. They have forced any merchant that carries thier tobacco products (Newport, etc..) to sell BLU or stop recieving thier other products.. Not sure what their up to yet, unless it is just as it seems at face value.. Cashing in on the e-cig boom..
     
  16. Uncle Willie

    Uncle Willie Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    As I've mentioned on the numerous other threads that deal with this ..

    If you are personally concerned about supply .. stockpile now .. none of us has a crystal ball on what the future holds .. however, considering the cost of analogs, a stash of nic solution is a relatively inexpensive item .. which, in the event of regs, could dramatically increase prior to any reg .. and nic solution is the keystone item ..

    I personally have 6000ml in the freezer, properly glass bottled and with an indefinite storage time .. a $360.00 investment .. and, even if nothing happens, which seems unlikely, I have it for my own personal use .. so I see it as a win win scenario ..
     
  17. Petrodus

    Petrodus Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2010
    Midwest
    Of course they are cashing in on the e-cig boom
    I suggest Lorillard did their homework before buying Blu
    and is confident they will be around for some time to come.

    Regrading buying nic as Uncle Willie suggests ... Good Idea.
    Most will not because they do not want to deal with nic
    Human nature thing.

    It appears to me most e-cig marketers are doing business as usual
    and not in a panic mode. Called my marketer on the phone today
    and no panic there. Was told the FDA will do as it please and
    they will adjust. Interesting ...

    Anyone else talking to their marketers? What are they saying?
     
  18. westy78

    westy78 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 4, 2013
    Colorado
    There's also no proof that wearing pants isn't just as dangerous as using cigarettes. Until the government tells me they are safe or someone does a clinical study, I will not wear them and no one else should be allowed to either.
     
  19. Paulette

    Paulette Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 22, 2012
    Florida
    After reading yesterday on the forum about whether we should start hoarding supplies, etc., in anticipation of what is going on with the FDA, I wanted a better understanding of the FDA rule-making process. Having been a paralegal for more years than I want to say, I decided I would research this (even though I loathe having to do legal research regarding federal regulations)!

    Luckily, before I really delved into it, I came across a recent radio interview of Bill Godshall from Smokefree Pennsylvania. If you are interested in knowing and understanding what is currently happening with the FDA, I strongly urge you to listen to this radio tape from VP-Live done around January 20, 2013. If you go to about 42:00 and listen to the end (which is a total of about an hour), this is where Bill’s interview starts. I know it’s long, but I truly believe you will be happy that you did; especially if you are in the US. Start the tape and do some mindless chore at the same time. Below are some of the highlights from this interview.



    From what Bill says, late last year the FDA issued its “Notice of Intent to Propose Deeming Regulation;” to be issued in April, 2013; and this is what prompted the recent public hearing. However, they have twice in the past issued a “Notice of Intent to Propose Deeming Regulation” and never did. The first time happened in the summer of 2011 saying it would be issued in October of 2011 and the second time happened in the Spring of 2012 saying it would be issued in the Summer of 2012.

    The process, according to Bill, is if they in fact issue this “Deeming Regulation,” it is NOT law yet. There would be an additional time span of somewhere between probably 60 and 120 days to generate comments to this “Deeming Regulation.” Bill believes that IF the FDA does issue a “Deeming Regulation,” no new “law” would occur until probably the end of this year. He stated that not all federal-agency proposals become law and there is a formal rule-making process that must be followed. He also stated that IF the FDA does issue a “Deeming Regulation,” he feels it would be more like June or July before that is even issued.

    Bill stated that e-cig users, CASAA and other e-cig-supporters “pissed over their [FDA’s] parade” at the hearing. Bill said that he had hoped for between 500 and 1,000 e-cig-supporter comments; and was blown away by getting 5,365 comments that they submitted to the FDA (of which about 99% of those were from e-cig users). He opined that two-thirds of the live testimony given at the hearing was in support of e-cigs. He did state that the FDA must issue a report to Congress as a result of this hearing, but did not indicate a time frame for that.

    I strongly urge you and every other person here to listen to this. It will give you such a better understanding of what is happening.

    https://soundcloud.com/vp-live/deeming-regulations
     
  20. SnusAndSnuff

    SnusAndSnuff Full Member

    Dec 27, 2012
    Northern California
    Thank you for that link, this was excellent.

    THANKS OBAMA FOR APPOINTING JOSHUA SHARSTEIN YOU ARE THE GREATEST!
     
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