Vapers' Own Legislation and „Common Sense“

[Ardo]

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about vaping etiquette and I saw that someone else had brought up the topic within another thread a couple of months back, but it didn’t get much attention then. Especially when I read suggestions like „use your common sense“, I realize how much we actually need guidelines, because it doesn’t take much for a few to ruin things for the many. As time goes by, vaping is becoming more and more popular. Chances that there will be vapers, who don’t understand „common sense“ and who will be used as examples to demonize the whole vaping world, will probably increase accordingly. So, perhaps it’s time for the vaping community to work out rules, sort of make its own legislation of vaping, that would set a common understanding for vapers what is OK and what is not. Here are some thoughts about the topic.

First, I firmly believe that there’s a clear distinction between vaping and smoking and that vaping should be allowed in public places. That being said, I also believe that there should be restrictions to where vaping is acceptable and rules that should apply to all vapers.

I don’t think vapers should be vaping everywhere like it's god given right, but I don’t think that vaping should be allowed only where smoking is allowed. I don’t think vaping should mean blowing out clouds of vapor where it’s crowded but I also don’t think vapers should be avoiding any sort of attention hoping that no one will notice. And I definitely don’t think sneaking around, like one was up to something bad is going to help. Even though it can sometimes get tricky to distinguish „in your face“ actions from polite ones, I think that in most situations there is a fine line. We just have to define where that line is.

So, who should be defining rules for the others?
Well, many of the people here have more than 2-3 years of vaping experience, thousands of thoughts published and loads of experience vaping in the public. Members of CASAA obviously. I think we should trust their judgement.

OK, How to get it out?
Through ECF and vendors. It should be the first thing to read for the new members here. ECF could introduce these rules to vendors, make it a good practice to have the etiquette up on their sites and it doesn’t take much to print a few extra lines in bold on the user manual. I believe that’s a win-win for all of us. Once the ball is rolling, I’m pretty sure the rest will follow. All it takes is a good example from a critical mass. With vendors it’s easier, but with vapers it seems to me that wether they know it or not, they are educating people by nature. E-cigs are a novelty for a lot of people and questions and looks are easy to come by. When vapers are explaining e-cigs to other people, it’s educating. It’s sort of „responsible vaping“ to me. Helping other vapers understand the rules of vaping if someone happens to cross their path, who perhaps hasn’t heard about them is just one step further. I think that making vapers just a bit more aware about the issues would help a lot and ECF has a huge amount of power to do something about it.

Will it take time and effort? Yes, absolutely. But the benefit would be enormous. Think just how much easier it is to get vaping accepted if vapers shared a mutual understanding of what is suitable and what is not. It would be an ideal for us if everyone (public establishments and guests alike) could see that the vaping world is organized and can handle its issues. It gives a sense of security that vaping is bound by some sensible rules and people will less likely be offended by jerks who don’t understand the meaning of „Common Sense“. It would help a lot in overcoming prejudice and ignorance and it would help a lot in getting vaping accepted.

So the question is: Should the vaping community work out its own vaping legislation? Actually get it done and get it out through ECF and vendors? Anytime soon, before those we haven’t elected to do so, do it for us?

 

[JENerationX]

The problem begins when even amongst veteran vapers you ask about vaping somewhere like a movie theater or grocery store. We can't agree amongst ourselves. It would be nice if we could.

 

[flbutterfly1]

I have no need to vape while in the grocery store or in a movie. Plus as a smoker we should already be trained to just avoid smoking in certain places. I do vape in non smoking motel rooms and in my house but not in non smokers houses. They would never have allowed me to smoke in these places so why would I vape in those places atleast without asking first. Some people can be rude and even if vapers code of ethics were in place some people would never use common sense anyway. I have had smokers (like my hubby) light up in my car and I had to say something that offends and I tell them no smoking. Also I have people that smoke in my "pool room" and I hate it they get nasty wet ashes all over but I vape there and we are outside so should I be mean no the smoker doesnt know any better they figure we are outside so I'm gonna smoke. Same goes for vapers just because I dont vape there others think they can and have the right to in most cases unless they are told specifically not to. It is a very hard to put in place without all people having the same ideas and same manners.

 

[tommy2bad]

When smoking was legal everywhere and anywhere, common courtesy applied.
Same with vaping, I think it will take time but I can see vaping becoming common enough that people will not confuse it with smoking, which will allow self regulation.
Yes their will always be puritans but they'll become a minority, the rest of us will just get on with it.
Of course this natural development could be short circuited by legislation and we end up with rules that defeat the purpose of vaping in the first place.
The recreational use of nicotine and the pleasure of vaping should only be subject to law when it's proven to be an imitate hazard to the user or others. Not because it 'might' or because someones 'concerned'. Thats for manners to cope with not law.

 

[VaprMade]

The only reason IMO why this is even an issue, is because we do not have concrete proof that vaping is non toxic to others. A few limited studies have come out on both sides, but until we see large testing of these products and there effects, if any, second hand wise, this debate will come up.

Now I definately am against any type of rules or regulations as of right now because no legitimate study has come out with conclusive evidence that vaping is harmful. Not only that but my health has improved over the past year and a half of vaping, so if I can notice my own health improving, that leads me to believe that secondhand effects are at least reduced with vaping when compared to smoking.

So the only guideline I would accept and follow at this point in time wherever I want. I see it as no different than the nicotine patch/gum/lozenge. If we want to keep legislators from banning it we can't make our own laws, we must further the science and testing of these products. Conclusive evidence of safety is the one thing that can help us out on that regard.

 

[mwplefty]

As far as a Code of Conduct for Vapers if you will, it would be very difficult. There are three issues on which vapers disagree (with number 1 causing the most disagreement):

1)In what public places should vapers vape (Should they only vape in designated outdoor smoking areas? Should they only vape outdoors? Should they only vape in restaurants, bars, bowling alleys, casinos, night clubs, and work offices? Should they vape in hospitals, supermarkets, and elevators? Should they vape anywhere at anytime?)

2)How vapers should vape in public places (stealth vape only in non-smoking areas? stealth vape everywhere? stealth vape in movie theaters? no stealth vaping/only large clouds of vapor? only large clouds of vapor in less populated areas?)

3)Who should vape (only people who are over 18? only people who are former smokers? only people who are trying to not start smoking? only people who are trying to normalize the behavior? only people who are trying to curb another habit? only people who like the physical appearance and sensory appeal of smoking?)

 

[Duster6524]

Vaper's Code of Conduct

Rule 1 : Show common courtesy
Rule 2 : Give common respect
Rule 3 : Have common decency
Rule 4 : Use common sense

Now I'll pull my flame resistant blanket over myself and go back to my little corner of the world.

 

[rothenbj]

Rule Number 1- Don't throw dead batteries on the sidewalk or out your car window.

 

[Ardo]

If we lived in a perfect world, we wouldn’t have to worry about other vapers manners. But we don’t. On the other hand, I understand that there is no need for definining every single situation vapers can find themselves in. But a few reasonable guidelines should still be highlighted. Like defining and suggesting stealth vaping or using liquids that give you the hit but don’t emit that much vapor. But most of all, we could be just saying out loud the one thing that vapers can agree on, but not all of them follow:

• No, you can’t vape anywhere and everywhere at any time, because it may be offensive to others and what you do has bigger effect, especially to your fellow vapers. So be respectful. In other words, things that Duster6524 just said.

Saying these things out loud has a huge power. Then it is said. It becomes a guideline that vapers agree on. It can’t be ignored and it has immediate effect. I guess that vapers have seen the power of good example over and over again when they made themselves ones by switching over to e-cigarettes. Then what happened? They converted others. That’s the power of a good example. What won’t help is discussing these things over and over again in threads that will soon be replaced with new ones and hoping that common courtesy would apply. Vaping community should say these things and actually get it out. Together with confirming your age, first timers in ECF and vendors sites should be reading this. It takes some effort and it will take time. But there is no point in hoping and expecting good things to happen, when there are people out there, fighting to get vaping banned from indoors.

There will always be jerks who don’t understand common sense, but there’s a lot we can do to minimize the number of jerks. If being a jerk about vaping is not something general and there will be only a few ones, they will be kicked out from public places, instead of just banning vaping indoors for the entire vaping community. And that is what we want. Isn’t it?

 

[Ardo]

For example: I’m sitting on the 8th floor of our National Library right now. There are 4 other people in this room. The closest person is about 16 feet away. There is no way I could be disturbing anyone right now. No one would ever notice me if I didn’t want them to. And I wouldn’t be bothered by them if they were vaping.

I went to speak to the library keepers and they told me that they have never met vapers and if they did, they wouldn’t know what to think of this. In the end they thought that water vapor and books don’t match as they need to protect those books. But they wouldn’t mind me vaping in the hallway. If they saw vapers coming here every day they would need speak to their boss about it. Their boss considers their opinions when making a decision. Their opinion is entirely dependant on how vapers look to them. And there it is. It’s vapers responsibilty to make a good impression. That applies to any other public place out there. We can totally ruin things or we can make it work. Why not make sure, that every vaper would be aware of this?

 

[Duster6524]

Don't stealth vape. If you feel that you have to hide it then you know it is probably not right to do it. As Ardo has said, it is not a 'right' to vape anywhere or anyplace you feel and it does reflect on the community as a whole. This leads to the next rule, Ask, don't assume. You know what they say about assuming... it makes an (a**) of (u) and (me). There are other options when you feel that need for nic, think of what you did when you smoked and got the craving, what did you do, snack, chew gum (nic or not), hummed, got up from where you are and went some where you could smoke, just waited for a break or end of day?
As I get some time I'll try to get something in black and white for vapers consideration unless somebody beats me to it. And I'm going to try and get some discussion going on another thread I'm on for additional input.

Thanks Ardo for bringing this up and trying to rally fellow vapers to help themselves out.

 

[sonicdsl]

Don't stealth vape. If you feel that you have to hide it then you know it is probably not right to do it.

I disagree. There are times when it's not that you feel it's wrong, it's just that you know, at this point in time, people will not understand, and assume you are doing something wrong.

Therefore, when I'm in that situation, I'll typically find a restroom, and take a quick hit there. Since I know now that there's nothing of consequence in the exhaled vapor, I feel no guilt about that whatsoever.

Same with a quick stealth hit on a plane or so forth. Why consume unneeded calories or wait for a puff or two if not neccessary?

But I do agree with not being rude. As with any action, if it's truly bothering someone, you should not do it. But if they don't know you're doing it, then there's not an issue, IMO.

 

[TennDave]

I consume a vape at work (school where I work) several times a day but do a double inhale, hold it in and there is no vapor exhaled. No one is the wiser. There is nothing to see.... I get the nic I need and keep working, feeling more energized and focused. I'm actually being more productive for my employer- I truly believe this.

 

[sonicdsl]

I consume a vape at work (school where I work) several times a day but do a double inhale, hold it in and there is no vapor exhaled. No one is the wiser. There is nothing to see.... I get the nic I need and keep working, feeling more energized and focused. I'm actually being more productive for my employer- I truly believe this.

My previous employer let me vape freely at my desk. It was quite nice! I'm sure I won't get so lucky on the next job!

 

[JENerationX]

I vape anywhere it would be reasonable to walk (or sit) around blowing bubbles (if bubbles were to have no soap in them). Vapor can be a visual distraction. I'm not going to blow plumes of vapor in a movie theater, grocery store, planetarium etc. (I have and will stealth with a small PV if I'm there long enough that I need to). I refrain from vaping at funerals, wedding services, church etc... because it's not somewhere I'd even drink a cup of coffee. I have vaped at a wake although not in the receiving line because that could be disrespectful. I did vape at my desk at my last employer. I did put a small desk fan on my desk and blew my vapor into it so that it dissipated and was not creating a giant cloud people could see. I'm not going to vape in someone else's car unless they're OK with it, or I have a window cracked... not because of anything in the vapor but because a giant cloud might be distracting for the driver. The biggest rule of thumb for me is that although it isn't smoke, it can and will be a visual distraction in some cases, and if I'm somewhere in a large crowd of people, elbow to elbow, I will not vape anywhere I wouldn't want someone else's vape wafting into my area. I will stealth if I can reasonably do so.

 

[mwplefty]

Basically, you should vape anywhere you would feel comfortable using a cell phone. Vaping serves as a distraction. Nothing else. If someone's blowing a large cloud of vapor, the worst that could happen is that another person gets annoyed. If someone's engaging in a conversation with me and they are more focused on their PV, I would become annoyed AND distracted (then again, I would go nuts when someone starts texting while I'm having a discussion with them). I wouldn't vape at Church, funeral, or wake. It's just not respectful. I would most certainly vape in a grocery store, in a museum, at work (when I'm not dealing with a customer).

Funny story about vaping at work (at least I think it's funny):

I was filing some papers at the office (which almost never happens because I rarely go to the office). There was a woman sitting less than 5 feet away from me. Apparently, she was my co-worker, yet I had never seen her before. I took out my PV and started vaping as usual. She asks me to stop because she claims to be allergic (she said that "what I was exhaling" makes her sick). I told her that it was only water vapor, NOT cigarette smoke. She insisted that she still had allergies. I told her that I had never heard of someone being allergic to water vapor before. I even said that perhaps the flavor of the PV was bothering her. She continued insisting that it gave her stomach aches and a sore throat (even at this time, I'm pretty sure that she still thought that I was smoking an analog). She asked that I not vape until she left (which was 5 minutes later). I was very confused by the situation, but I honored her request. I wasn't going to badger her about something so trivial, so once she left, I took out my PV and kept on vaping.

 

[sonicdsl]

Basically, you should vape anywhere you would feel comfortable using a cell phone. Vaping serves as a distraction. Nothing else. If someone's blowing a large cloud of vapor, the worst that could happen is that another person gets annoyed. If someone's engaging in a conversation with me and they are more focused on their PV, I would become annoyed AND distracted (then again, I would go nuts when someone starts texting while I'm having a discussion with them). I wouldn't vape at Church, funeral, or wake. It's just not respectful. I would most certainly vape in a grocery store, in a museum, at work (when I'm not dealing with a customer).

Funny story about vaping at work (at least I think it's funny):

I was filing some papers at the office (which almost never happens because I rarely go to the office). There was a woman sitting less than 5 feet away from me. Apparently, she was my co-worker, yet I had never seen her before. I took out my PV and started vaping as usual. She asks me to stop because she claims to be allergic (she said that "what I was exhaling" makes her sick). I told her that it was only water vapor, NOT cigarette smoke. She insisted that she still had allergies. I told her that I had never heard of someone being allergic to water vapor before. I even said that perhaps the flavor of the PV was bothering her. She continued insisting that it gave her stomach aches and a sore throat (even at this time, I'm pretty sure that she still thought that I was smoking an analog). She asked that I not vape until she left (which was 5 minutes later). I was very confused by the situation, but I honored her request. I wasn't going to badger her about something so trivial, so once she left, I took out my PV and kept on vaping.

At my last job, the co-worker who sat across from me always wanted to smell my vapor to see how new flavors smelled!

 

[TennDave]

I have encountered both scenarios- those that complain that the vapor bothers them- they are allergic, etc. and those who want to smell it and enjoy my flavors. Unfortunately, the ANTZ are trumping up all kinds of twists to research that is out and also bad research to say that the vapor actually is harmful- thus the indoor bans will continue. I even had one person recently (a complainer) tell me "I told you so" in regards to the harmful vapor I'm expelling. Yes, I want to beat these people over the head w/ the facts, but sometimes it's best not to call attention to vaping, especially if it's where common sense would tell you, it might be best not to vape.

 

[Ardo]

I consume a vape at work (school where I work) several times a day but do a double inhale, hold it in and there is no vapor exhaled. No one is the wiser. There is nothing to see.... I get the nic I need and keep working, feeling more energized and focused. I'm actually being more productive for my employer- I truly believe this.

This is how I've always understood STEALTH VAPING. It only means being polite and not blowing out clouds of vapor, not sneaking around. I understand if someone was taking a 20 hour flight to Asia and it’s strictly prohibited on airplanes, you have very little choices left. But most of the day people don’t get into situations that strict.

But when vapers get into situations, where stealth vaping should be considered, there’s a fine line between sneaking around and being polite. That's the point. Shouldn’t we define those things big and bold? To avoid misunderstandings. Again, I understand that we can’t agree on every single situation, but defining stealth vaping, why it’s necessary to know these things, why there should perhaps be elbow to elbow rules (too little space, no go!) – these things help avoid misunderstandings. And that in turn helps to overcome opposing vaping in public.

BTW, one of the reasons why I brought up the topic was that TennDave also came up with the idea to have etiquette cards printed out. But that thread was closed and it wasn’t discussed any further. But I firmly believe that taking action to make our own lives easier and protect freedoms that we have right now, is going to help more than hoping that everything will sort itself out somehow.

 

[Ardo]

Unfortunately, the ANTZ are trumping up all kinds of twists to research that is out and also bad research to say that the vapor actually is harmful- thus the indoor bans will continue. I even had one person recently (a complainer) tell me "I told you so" in regards to the harmful vapor I'm expelling. Yes, I want to beat these people over the head w/ the facts, but sometimes it's best not to call attention to vaping, especially if it's where common sense would tell you, it might be best not to vape.

The way I see this, everything going on around e-cigarettes and vaping is happening on two levels. Legislation and social. I understand that CASAA is doing great job fighting bans on legislational level. But we should also be doing our best to win public opinion. That can be done by showing vaping and vapers in positive light and by educating people. Winning public opinion will not happen by making laws. Only vapers themselves can make a difference here. This is where we have a lot to do. And there’s a lot we can do.