Vaping gave me Eosinophilic Pneumonia, and I DONT use THC of any kind.

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Horselady154

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I was thinking it might be a good idea to have a harm reduction sticky now that the side effects of poor reactions to vaping are becoming more clear. I suspect some major lawsuits, similar to when the cig companies were all fined, are likely in the works at this point, although I personally am not interested in such.

In my case, shortness of breathe, coughing, low oxygen levels and severe weight loss (15+ pounds over 12 months) were all in effect. I don't think it should be a generalized warning, rather if you seeing these side effects you should visit your doctor and cease smoking.

Here are some of the most common side effects I have seen in similar cases to mine online.



The most distressing factor for my doctors and the hospitals were low O2 levels in the blood, especially at my age being otherwise healthy. This can be checked with an O2 thumb reader from amazon if anyone is interested to see if side effects are onsettings. (If you're below 98% I believe, it's a cause for concern) Unforchantly, I was sick for nearly a year before I knew how low my O2 levels were and it was very very odd to the doctors, really that was the thing that prompted specialists to get involved.

I was reading a link someone else posted in this thread which had a promoted article to this,

Scans show vaping teen’s lungs blocked with solidified oil

In this article, it mentions a very similar finding even worse than my own O2 readings. (37%)
With all due respect, since nicotine e-liquid has no oil in it, where is the oil coming from that is in his lungs? Seems to me that it is far more likely that he was vaping something other than nicotine e-liquid that has been found to be mixed with oil.
 

vaperXant

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As previously requested, Here is a list of my gear and timelines. It's been a while and I have gone through a lot of gear/toppers/juices so this will not be all-inclusive and the times might not all be right. I believe I originally got sick around August 2017, and about a year later it peaked in severeness and I was finally diagnosed and had a good doctor. I'm not sure there's much to learn from this though, because it been such a long period with a lot of products. In the end, I stayed sick changing products frequently which leads me to believe its more related to vaping itself then a specific product.

---- 2017 (Symptoms Start) ----
MODS
OWNED DNA MODS, EXPERIMENTED WITH TEMP CONTROL BUT DID NOT LIKE. WAS ALSO LIMITEDLY EXPERIMENTING WITH CUSTOM BUILDING AND VARIOUS COIL TYPES. Also had some SX series chips and Yihi. All highest wattage at the time possible, although I never really went over 80 watts.

TOPPERS
MOSTLY CROWN TOPPERS I BELIEVE IN THAT TIME RANGE, WITH OFFICIAL TOPPERS. ALSO, MAY HAVE HAD SMOK TOPPERS, ALTHOUGH IT'S BEEN A WHILE

JUICES

  • Strawnilla (by Nicoticket)
  • Mothers Milk (by Suicide Bunny)
  • Unicorn Milk (by Cuttwood)
  • Strawnilla (by Nicoticket)
---- 2018 (Peak in severeness) ----
MODS

  • DNA20012ƒ˜˙©çg41bn45
  • SX Series chips
  • OTHER SIMILAR MOD / CHIPSETS
TOPPERS
  • UWELL CROWN
  • SMOKTECH VARIOUS HIGH WATTAGE
JUICES
  • Vaptasia E-Liquid
  • Lava Flow by Naked 100 Fruit E-Liquid
  • Naked Unicorn by Naked 100 Cream E-Liquid
---- Early 2019 (Working Treatment plan, return to smoking midyear)----
MODS

  • DNA200
  • VooPoo DRAG
  • A few other similar high end / high wattage mods
TOPPERS
  • FREEMAX
  • SMOK CROWN / BABY / TFV
  • HORIZONTECH
JUICES
  • TAILORED HOUSE STRAWBERRY
  • NAKED
There are many more, but this is the most used I can remember. If something caused it, it would be in the RED 2017 area, but even then it still continued after changing products and was at it worst in 2018 nearly a year later.
 

vaperXant

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With all due respect, since nicotine e-liquid has no oil in it, where is the oil coming from that is in his lungs? Is it more likely that he was vaping something other than nicotine e-liquid that has been found to be mixed with oil?
PG and VG are oils in a sense. I have noticed at high wattage when vaping sometimes it's a very wet vape, with the PG / VG basically passing through the coils when you drag hard. This can certainly reach your lungs. In this article, it doesn't mention what was smoked in specific but since it's in PA where THC products are illegal and he was vaping for 2 years consistently it might have been nicotine based. Not only that, it shows the same symtoms I had and I did not use THC.
 

Horselady154

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PG and VG are oils in a sense. I have noticed at high wattage when vaping sometimes it's a very wet vape, with the PG / VG basically passing through the coils when you drag hard. This can certainly reach your lungs. In this article, it doesn't mention what was smoked in specific but since it's in PA where THC products are illegal and he was vaping for 2 years consistently it might have been nicotine based. Not only that, it shows the same symtoms I had and I did not use THC.
Your lungs were coated with something resembling bacon grease, as that teen's doctor said? That's not what I recall.

And no, PG and VG are not oils.
 

vaperXant

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PG and VG are oils in a sense. I have noticed at high wattage when vaping sometimes it's a very wet vape, with the PG / VG basically passing through the coils when you drag hard. This can certainly reach your lungs. In this article, it doesn't mention what was smoked in specific but since it's in PA where THC products are illegal and he was vaping for 2 years consistently it might have been nicotine based. Not only that, it shows the same symtoms I had and I did not use THC.
UPDATE: If you read the reference, which links to a FB post from his mother, they mention in the comments he was using "he was using the NJoy vapes that he purchased in local convenience stores."

This is a NICOTINE based product.

See the comments here -
 
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Horselady154

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UPDATE: If you read the reference, which links to a FB post from his mother, they mention in the comments he was using "he was using the NJoy vapes that he purchased in local convenience stores."

This is a NICOTINE based product.

See the comments here -

Kids lie. I'm sure you realize that. I doubt he would tell his Mother that he was vaping THC that he bought from someone in the alley. Instances of this have already been found in the current hysteria going on. The kids did not admit to having used THC, but were found to have done exactly that.
 

vaperXant

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Your lungs were coated with something resembling bacon grease, as that teen's doctor said? That's not what I recall.

And no, PG and VG are not oils.
I don't necessarily mean oil as traditional oil, but it could certain reach the lungs and harden. There are also many flavoring materials that could turn into oil-like substances in the lungs.
 
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Horselady154

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I don't necessarily mean oil as traditional oil, but it could certain reach the lungs and harden. There are also many flavoring materials that could turn into oil-like substances in the lungs.
If you used an oil-based flavoring, yes. However, they are clearly marked these days, which ones are appropriate for use in vaping (those that contain NO oil) and which ones are only for baking, etc.

So, if someone ignored the warnings and bought an oil-based flavoring and used it in their e-juice, it would not be good for them at all. Kind of like the warnings they put on lighters not to light them next to your hair. After that, I guess Darwin's Rule comes into play.
 
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kates

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I am really glad you are improving VaperXant but I think we have to be cautious about definitively saying this has been caused by vaping. Obviously these things should be thoroughly investigated but given the millions of people who vape with no negative consequences – and in many cases much improved health – it is feasible that the cause is elsewhere.

For example this discussion could equally be titled 'Smoking improves Eosinophillic Pneumonia' or 'Eosinophillic Pneumonia improved after cigarette use'. It would be technically correct but not the whole story. Clearly there needs to be further investigation into this current outbreak and any older cases like your own.

The article you linked appears to be caused by a different issue to your own – as it appears oil in the lungs has been identified– and so likely to be related to THC contaminated carts. I personally think the non THC and THC cases need to be looked at separately, at least initially (even if some symptoms are similar).

I hope you continue to improve and absolutely agree anyone with any breathing problems, coughing, sudden weight loss etc. should see a doctor immediately.
 

vaperXant

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Kids lie. I'm sure you realize that. I doubt he would tell his Mother that he was vaping THC that he bought from someone in the alley. Instances of this have already been found in the current hysteria going on. The kids did not admit to having used THC, but were found to have done exactly that.
That not the point, he had the SAME EXACT thing happen to him that happened to me, and I don't use THC at all... The point is somehow the lungs are being constained. It might not be an oil in the way you would typically define one, but rather an oil like substance. When I did my CT scans, they found hard nodules throughout my lungs which they were nearly sure were cancer. I had to get biopsies done to test what they are, and they were not cancer instead buildups from vaping. There are a lot of different scans coming in unique to a lot of vaping situations with THC and without THC, but it's certainly causing some sort of buildup in the lungs and they are not sure why.
 
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vaperXant

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I am really glad you are improving VaperXant but I think we have to be cautious about definitively saying this has been caused by vaping. Obviously these things should be thoroughly investigated but given the millions of people who vape with no negative consequences – and in many cases much improved health – it is feasible that the cause is elsewhere.

For example this discussion could equally be titled 'Smoking improves Eosinophillic Pneumonia' or 'Eosinophillic Pneumonia improved after cigarette use'. It would be technically correct but not the whole story. Clearly there needs to be further investigation into this current outbreak and any older cases like your own.

The article you linked appears to be caused by a different issue to your own – as it appears oil in the lungs has been identified– and so likely to be related to THC contaminated carts. I personally think the non THC and THC cases need to be looked at separately, at least initially (even if some symptoms are similar).

I hope you continue to improve and absolutely agree anyone with any breathing problems, coughing, sudden weight loss etc. should see a doctor immediately.
Read the reference, That case was NOT THC related and I doubt hes lying to anyone in the ICU lol... He's basically nearly DEAD and hes not even a kid... I should also mention they are sure this is related to vaping, THC or not and there are hundreds of cases showing up with people who have vaped for several years, so even if it's against what you like it's clearly an issue worth discussing.

I was directly told by my doctors after months of scans, biopsies, blood tests, etc that this is related to vaping and if I don't stop I can DIE. This isn't a one-off case, this was based on papers a handful of doctors across the US were working on with related cases, comparing scans and symptoms. I didn't post this because I made it up, I posted it because I had a bad experience and there aren't a lot of long term members who experienced this yet, so it's worth addressing. There are only a few hundred cases right now because for a while they had no idea vaping had negative side effects and it took them a lot of nationally collab to identify all these cases shared vaping as a trigger.

Even so, it's only about 550 cases which is VERY SMALL, but now they actually know what to look for so you can expect to see this go up as more longer-term effects start to expose themselves in patients and the hospitals know to ask if they are vaping as well. With this small of a case profile, I might be the first member to even bring this topic up, but I likely won't be the last.
 
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Horselady154

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That not the point, he had the SAME EXACT thing happen to him that happened to me, and I don't use THC at all... The point is somehow the lungs are being constained. It might not be an oil in the way you would typically define one, but rather an oil like substance. When I did my CT scans, they found hard nodules throughout my lungs which they were nearly sure were cancer. I had to get biopsies done to test what they are, and they were not cancer instead buildups from vaping. There are a lot of different scans coming in unique to a lot of vaping situations with THC and without THC, but it's certainly causing some sort of buildup in the lungs and they are not sure why.
The biopies would have told you WHAT substance the "buildups" were. What were they?
 

Horselady154

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Read the reference, That case was NOT THC related and I doubt hes lying to anyone in the ICU lol... He's basically nearly DEAD and hes not even a kid...
"This is what vaping looks like when your otherwise healthy 19 year old"

That is a kid.

How do you know it's not THC-related? There is no oil in nicotine e-liquid. So, if his lungs are coated with something like bacon grease, one has to ask where that would come from. It seems to me that it would be logical to investigate further.
 

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vaperXant

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The biopies would have told you WHAT substance the "buildups" were. What were they?
They can't always tell you what the substance is especially with the lesser invasive Bronchoscopy and in this case it was tested to see if it was a cancerous nodule and it was not. The testing stopped at "Are you going to need to start cancer treatments or not"... and me and my family were scared I had cancer at 28 years old. (I have a wife and 5-year-old) Is there another testing they could have done to figure out what it is and do more invasive biopsies, prob but not that I was willing to do or that my insurance would likely cover. (It was a$15,000 procedure) If it turned out to be cancer, then I would have likely had more intrusive testing done but in this case, it was a relief.


Im not looking to battle you on if vaping is bad. I love vaping, .... I wish I could do it right now. But there are real long term issues that might need to be addressed and even if there is one person here that sees this post and has similar issues that can be helped, it would be worth posting. Im not sure you quite understand the ordeal I went through over 2 years and $150,000+ in medical work for them to tell me vaping did this directly and conclusively and I need to stop, this was before it hit the news by MONTHS. This topic hitting the news and starting to become widespread is what drove me to share my story, what I experienced, what I vaped and my opinion in hopes to help others.
 
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Horselady154

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They can't always tell you what the substance is, and in this case it was tested to see if it was a cancerous nodule and it was not. The testing stopped at "Are you going to need to start cancer treatments or not"... and me and my family were scared I had cancer at 28 years old. (I have a wife and 5-year-old) Is there another testing they could have done to figure out what it is and do more invasive biopsies, prob but not that I was willing to do or that my insurance would likely cover. (It was a$15,000 procedure) Im not looking to battle you on if vaping is bad. I love vaping, .... I wish I could do it right now. But there are real long term issues that might need to be addressed and even if there is one person here that sees this post and has similar issues that can be helped, it would be worth posting.
If they biopsied it, they would be able to tell you what the substance was. Did they tell you it was oil build-up?
 

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@vaperXant thank you very much for following up with the requested info. And for your post in general.

I think I may remember seeing you on the Nicoticket subforum back in the day. IIRC, Strawnilla had insane amounts of dyketones. Not saying that's the issue here, but I do wonder if it could potentially be something about strawberry flavoring since that was your main gig. I've never enjoyed strawberry flavors, so perhaps that could partially explain why my health experience has been so different? I don't know, but interesting question IMO.
 

vaperXant

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If they biopsied it, they would be able to tell you what the substance was. Did they tell you it was oil build-up?
I was told it was not cancerous, but that's a pretty broad statement to make unless you're a medical professional. A biopsy is an inspection of the CELLS, im not sure how you assume that means they can identify any substance in existence because in my case they were not able to identify what it was without additional testing even then which might not identify what it is, which I did not consent to as coughing up blood for a week and fevers from the biopsy were enough for me and I was relieved to not have CANCER lol. There were talks of a more intrusive biopsy, but I was told that this should eventually repair itself or the lung would just grow around it.

I pushed them on what it was and they said they were unable to identify exactly what they were, but it was a vaping related injury to the lung. Keep in mind this was a series of nodules, not just one. If you read around, you can find some information about others who had similar scans in the medical papers on this topic.
 

vaperXant

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@vaperXant thank you very much for following up with the requested info. And for your post in general.

I think I may remember seeing you on the Nicoticket subforum back in the day. IIRC, Strawnilla had insane amounts of dyketones. Not saying that's the issue here, but I do wonder if it could potentially be something about strawberry flavoring since that was your main gig. I've never enjoyed strawberry flavors, so perhaps that could partially explain why my health experience has been so different? I don't know, but interesting question IMO.
I did not know this, I know one of the mothers milk or unicorn milk flavors also had some bad stuff they got called on, was this the same chemical? Also, that was me! I was active in Nicoticket.

Overall, Im not sure what the cause is. I think its vaping related and some people might be more suspectable then others for whatever identified reason. I think there are likely 2-3 issues here being merged into one with the news coverage as well, with THC being completely separate. That said, I dont it's wise for people to just assume it's some black market THC issue every time something happens with vaping related lung cases.

I do think flavoring could also be an issue, as 2017 was kindof the wild wild west. I just don't understand how that would linger and get worse into 2018.
 
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