Vaping loopholes, hardware, liquids and laws

[dezyner]

I started vaping because I loved to smoke, loved the nicotine, just got tired of paying the huge taxes on it. I started doing diy liquids to get the flavors i like, get the nicotine levels i want, and again, save money. So, my questions are many with all the regulation and policies concerning e cigs and how it will work. The batteries, you can build for about 10 bucks at any radio shack, and even the ones we love that are manufactured are really just flashlight batteries, so it may just be the look alike e cigs that get targeted immediately, and regulated and taxed. the coils, cartos, clearos and tanks are a little trickier to come up with if they are banned, but i guess they could be considered and designated to something, anything, "cooking supplies". and then comes e liquids, and I think that the nicotine is really the main component I couldn't live without. And if they start taxing it absurdly like they do tobacco, I will just buy in bulk. So technically, can all of these elements be loopholed around. Is this all going to boil down to anything that "looks like" or is marketed at "traditional cigarette markets" gets hit? for the people out there that use the advanced stuff and diy everything will stay the same. I mean, if I make a mod from radio shack, rebuild my coils, and mix my own diy, all that i need is nicotine. i could live with "look alikes" being taxed, I don't care at all what my setup "looks" like. doesn't just changing the name from e cig to vapor device get around most of the hassle?

 

[dezyner]

pg and vg are used for alot of stuff, and i buy mine from a vendor that has absolutely no ties to ecigs, at all. 25 a gallon. i can make the battery for 10 bucks at any radio shack. the only two things i can't buy anywhere at all, are the nicotine, and the clearos. and i'm pretty sure i can buy the clearos oversea, have it shipped.

 

[junkman]

The only thing to fear is regulation of the sale of nicotine. Now you can buy 500ml of 100mg nicotine in PG from wizard labs for about $60 and mix your own, cutting down to your preferred strength. However, if the FDA gets involved and makes it so I can't buy the nicotine from wizard labs or any other vendor, or can only buy with a permit, then we are screwed.

 

[dezyner]

The only thing to fear is regulation of the sale of nicotine. Now you can buy 500ml of 100mg nicotine in PG from wizard labs for about $60 and mix your own, cutting down to your preferred strength. However, if the FDA gets involved and makes it so I can't buy the nicotine from wizard labs or any other vendor, or can only buy with a permit, then we are screwed.

my thoughts exactly, Wizard is a great shop. Notice that he doesn't mention "e-cigs" at all. Smart. but I will just buy tons of nicotine if that happens. it's the one element you "have to" have. and the atomizers. those are going to be tough to loophole around. those two things, nicotine and atomizers are what I'm trying to figure out how to get around.

 

[Saintly1]

I know there are a multitude of uses for PG/VG but are there other uses for PG/VG with nicotine or is that sold strictly for e-cigs?

The FDA usually focuses on the marketing of a product, as well as the safety of it. They won't let e-cigs be marketed as a smoking cessation method because there aren't enough studies to show that it is a safe and effective method. Personal testimony is not enough for them. As long as the products aren't marketed in a way that claims they are beneficial or therapeutic then the FDA often turns their head. There is still the health issue but since PG is used in asthmatic nebulizers I don't see the FDA stepping up and claiming inhaling PG is unsafe. They would have to recall and ban nebulizers which isn't going to happen.

That same theory should apply to nic juice as well. As long as it's not marketed as being used in e-cigs for the purpose of smoking cessation then there's not much they can do as long as it's used in other approved uses.

It's similar to the adult toy industry. If you market a Hitachi massager as an adult toy then it will be subject to adult toy regulations. If you market it as a massager then it's simply a massager. Still the same device, just a different point of view to the general public in the eyes of the FDA.

 

[mostlyclassics]

That same theory should apply to nic juice as well. As long as it's not marketed as being used in e-cigs for the purpose of smoking cessation then there's not much they can do as long as it's used in other approved uses.

Nicquid has two uses: vaping and bug poison. This may sound paranoid, but I've been slapped by the Fed'ral Gummint so often that I know what follows is likely, if not inevitable. The FDA could require that nicquid be "denatured." Denaturing is adding enough human-poison to make it unfit for our purposes. (For the bugs, well I figure they wouldn't care.) A prime example of denaturing is the denatured alcohol you can buy in pharmacies. The stuff is 70 to 95% real live booze alcohol, but it's had added to it evaporating denaturing agents which make denatured alcohol unfit (and actually poisonous) to drink.

So, in the future, I expect to see denatured nicquid, fit for killing beetles on my roses but totally unfit for vaping.

 

[Saintly1]

So, in the future, I expect to see denatured nicquid, fit for killing beetles on my roses but totally unfit for vaping.

You might be paranoid but that actually seems like the easiest approach for them. No real regulation required, just make it unusable. Hmm.. I wonder if the FDA is reading this forum?

 

[junkman]

my thoughts exactly,... and the atomizers. those are going to be tough to loophole around. those two things, nicotine and atomizers are what I'm trying to figure out how to get around.

Just get an RBA.

Something like an AGA-t. Problem solved.

 

[dezyner]

nicotine is a chemical extract. the denaturing aspect of alcohol has yet to stop anyone from making their own "homebrew". it never did. prohibition never works. didn't work for alcohol, hasn't worked on "other substances" , and probably wouldn't work with nicotine. home labs. that was the loophole i was looking for, thanks. bootleg. lol.

 

[dezyner]

Just get an RBA.

Something like an AGA-t. Problem solved.

i was hoping that i wouldn't have to make my own resistance coils, but yeah, your right. loophole found, thanks.

 

[Eblyth00]

I don't think they could really regulate anything that does not contain nicotine such as atomizers. I know of plenty of stores I can walk in and buy a .... or a .... pipe. Because until you add the substance there not illegal.

 

[mostlyclassics]

I don't think they could really regulate anything that does not contain nicotine such as atomizers. I know of plenty of stores I can walk in and buy a .... or a .... pipe. Because until you add the substance there not illegal.

Actually, they are illegal. They're called "drug paraphernalia." Ask Tommy Chong about the stretch he did in the federal slammer for selling such devices.

 

[dezyner]

Actually, they are illegal. They're called "drug paraphernalia." Ask Tommy Chong about the stretch he did in the federal slammer for selling such devices.

sorry, but they're not illegal. they are illegal if you refer to them as anything other than tobacco pipes. and then, only if you get caught.

 

[Izan]

If it contains nic, it WILL BE taxed.
Hardware is a mute point. The nic is the tit here. Based on what they did with RYO tobacco, expect a 10 fold increase in price.
I'd say...2016 or later...

I

 

[dezyner]

If it contains nic, it WILL BE taxed.
Hardware is a mute point. The nic is the tit here. Based on what they did with RYO tobacco, expect a 10 fold increase in price.
I'd say...2016 or later...

I

that's kinda what i thought, they miss their revenue stream, so go directly to the nic. i'll just stock up on the one thing you gotta have, nicotine. do they sell it in 50 gallon drums. lol.

 

[Saintly1]

Actually, they are illegal. They're called "drug paraphernalia." Ask Tommy Chong about the stretch he did in the federal slammer for selling such devices.

dezyner is right. Bongs are illegal, tobacco pipes are not. Again, marketing is everything.

 

[Eblyth00]

Well I think if it came down to it I could cut myself down to 0 nic juice an wouldn't have anything to worry about.

 

[bzmotoninja83]

Good thing I have a big standup freezer. I just wonder how many shelves I can take up before the wife starts stomping her foot in my direction?..... Lol
Sent from my {920} using Board Express

 

[Butters78]

I heard maters got a tiny bit of nic in them so I've been trying extract! Tastes like burnt ragu!

 

[mostlyclassics]

dezyner, and others, I think a reading of Title 21 USC Code, Section 863, would be useful here.

Also, it's worth checking the entry in Wikipedia here.