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Vaping masters, Please HELP with constant BURNT/DRY Hits!!

Discussion in 'Wick and Wire' started by LVixen, Jul 6, 2015.

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  1. LVixen

    LVixen Full Member Verified Member

    Jul 5, 2015
    Hello everyone!

    I'm hoping someone can help me figure out what I'm doing wrong in this situation because I'm at my wits end!!

    I'm brand new to vaping (and dripping) and just started to build my own coils. I've been using steam-engine for all the calculations and to make sure I'm vaping safely. Wrapping the builds hasn't been as complicated as I thought it might be, but wicking???? It's freakin' kicking my {Moderated}! At least I THINK the problem is with my wicking because I've actually built higher and lower resistance wraps, with different inner diameters to see if it would solve the BURNT/DRY HIT problem but it has made no difference at all.

    I've googled, researched, read, watched a ton of youTube videos on wicking and it looks so simple! Which it is, because I follow the instructions to the letter and when I'm done wicking, everything looks beyootiful and exactly like what I've seen in the tutorials, but as soon as I fire it up, I get a burnt/dry hit either on the very first hit or the second for sure!:-x
    The RDA housing also gets VERY hot to the touch (but not hot vapor).

    Here's the material/equipment I've been working with:

    Wick: Japanese cotton pads
    Wire: only have 24g Kanthal
    Juice: Max VG juices, mostly >90% VG (Virgin Vapor, Velvet Cloud, etc)
    Builds (all dual coils):
    • tried a 0.4 ohm (10 wraps around 2.4mm drill bit)
    • also tried a 0.3 ohm with a larger inner diameter (6 wraps around 3.0mm drill bit)
    • and even larger ID (6 wraps around 5/32" drill bit) for .35 ohms
    • also tried a 0.2 ohm spaced coil (4 wraps around 3.0mm drill bit)
    Atty: Plume Veil 2.5
    Mod: 18650 Mech Mod (Copper Limitless Mod) or iPV3 Li mod box
    Batteries : Sony VCT4s

    I only have the Japanese cotton pads, but I've tried more cotton, less cotton, thicker wicks, thinner wicks, longer wicks, shorter wicks, tighter wicks, looser wicks, you name it, I've tried it! I've also tried playing with the height of the coils in relationship to the cyclop air holes on the Plume Veil and I didn't see much of a difference. There seems to be adequate air flow.

    I've also inspected the coils for hot spots and cannot see any. Both coils usually heat up at the same time from the center out, and there are no hot leads or anything of the sort.

    I've put the RDA on both the mech mod and the iPV3 Li, and I get BURNT hits right off the bat with both, except maybe with the box mod if I vape at lower wattages (around 35 watts or so), then it takes about 3 hits before I get the burnt hit, but any higher wattages and I get the burnt hit immediately on the first hit.

    I've attached some pics of some of the different builds/wicking I've tried.

    image1.jpeg image2.jpeg image3.jpeg image4.jpeg image5.jpeg image6.jpeg

    How can I correct this issue? It shouldn't be THAT hard to build and wick your own coils, even for a noobie. Something is really off here. I just don't know what! Please ADVISE, pretty please?
     
  2. opticruby

    opticruby Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 19, 2015
    UK
    I would say the first thing to check if for hot spots and hot legs (where one or both legs are glowing red before the coil), as this will give you dry hits/burnt taste.

    Also make sure the wick is saturated even if a bit of juice leaks from the wick onto the deck its fine.

    With rta's I find less is more with wicking.

    High Vg juices are harder to wick than say 50/50 so wicking is a little different.
     
  3. LVixen

    LVixen Full Member Verified Member

    Jul 5, 2015
    Hi there, @opticruby! Thanks for replying!

    As I mentioned in my post, I've inspected all coil builds for hot spots or hot legs and haven't found any. Besides, I have tried about 4-5 different coil set ups over the last 2 weeks, and I find it hard to believe that I would have a hot spot/lead in every single set up, so I don't know...

    But I'll be sure to take your advice and saturate the wicks some more and see if that helps!:thumb:

    Thanks again for your input:)
     
  4. bky16

    bky16 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 4, 2015
    Hong Kong
    Judging from the wattage 30 you using, 90% VG e juice, insisting on a dual coil. I guess you are a cloud chaser. But your choice of atty doesn't agree though. I'm not suggesting plume veil can't kindle that. But a proper choice like mutation V4 might be better.

    For cloud chasers, most will want more air flow, it will as well cool down your atty and thus your coil.

    In your approach to avoid dry hit. Try lower the wattage, to start like 16W. Try less quick, or say pulling the wick through your coil should have less resistance. Starts less and then more on the same coil.

    From your pictures, seems to me, the wick going through the coil is too thick. Further,.it's too long. Some will just suggest that it should just touching the juice well.

    Make sure the air holes are wide open.


    I'm not a cloud chaser though.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. LVixen

    LVixen Full Member Verified Member

    Jul 5, 2015
    Hi @bky16! Thanks for your reply!
    Yes, I have to admit that I'm in it for the clouds, as I don't use any nicotine when I vape :) But as I mentioned in my original post, I've tried ALL KINDS of thicknesses and sizes of wicks, but I always get a burnt hit either with the first or second pull. And yes, all the air holes are wide open.

    As far as the RDA, I specifically picked the Plume Veil because of its reported efficiency as far as flavor AND clouds (Rip Trippers' review on YouTube), and I've seen him do these sick builds on the Plume Veil, so I thought it should be an appropriate choice for me, no? I guess I can give the Mutation X or the Doge a try, though.

    But I'll be sure to take your suggestion and start at 16 watts and see if that works out any better. THANKS a bunch!
     
  6. VictorViper

    VictorViper Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2013
    Vancouver
    Airflow may come into it, but heat capacitance seem to be your main issue here. Your highest resistance coil is near my absolute lower limit for my own builds, so try to keep that in mind, but my suggestion would be to try a higher gauge wire, or stick to a single coil with the 24 gauge. In the 0.4ohm build, you have ~40W feeding into almost 23cm of wire. With 24awg, you have a tremendous amount of ramp up and cool down time and with that much surface area, your wick and juice are both likely being stifled.

    I know this doesn't help you right now, but I highly recommend looking into getting some 26 and 28awg kanthal. I do keep 24, but I find it far too slow to be useful in anything but a single coil config at the resistance levels I'm comfortable running.

    Try an 8 wrap single coil at 2.4mm ID. You'll clock in around 0.5-0.6 ohms and ~30W but you'll more than double your heat flux. This should let you use shorter draws and avoid overcooking your juice.

    It should be noted that you are indeed using a lot of wick. Excess beyond the coil itself won't cause burnt juice issues, but it can contribute (negatively or positively) to the airflow in the atomizer. Keep experimenting, wicks are a fickle beast and demand tailoring to the coil and atty you use.

    Hope this helps!

    [EDIT] Forgot you're using an IPV as well as the mech. Again using the 0.4ohm build, crank that wattage UP. 70W would be a more appropriate power level to ensure your coils heat more rapidly. A slow coil presents problems on heating AND duration to cool. Double whammy.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Darth Omerta

    Darth Omerta Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2015
    I agree with everything @VictorViper said. I would like to add you dont need to build sub ohm to get clouds. I find my Dark Horse rda vapes great in the .5-1.2 dual coil range. In fact I was in at the local B&M last week with a 1.2 build on my Dark Horse running LG HE4s in my King v2 mech and the clerk was convinced it was a .5 build. Granted this guy wasnt the most knowledgeable clerk Ive ever met, but he was just comparing clouds. Dual coil build on RDAs with mech mods can produce great clouds and relatively high ohms is my point.

    Edit: I would also like to add that I also vape high VG juices and that just this morning I decided to try building a .4 just out of curiosity and Im finding its too hot for my liking. The more I build the more Im finding that .6 - .7 is my sweet spot for mechs.

    *Note : I use 28 guage and wrap on 1/16 drill bit for an ID of 1.58mm
     
    • Like Like x 4
  8. LVixen

    LVixen Full Member Verified Member

    Jul 5, 2015
    Hi there @VictorViper! This is VERY informative, really helpful!

    I do tend to build lower resistance coils for cloud chasing, but I hadn't considered how slow 24g Kanthal would be. The reason why I chose that specific gauge was because of all the Rip Trippers tutorials I saw on YouTube. He often uses 24g kanthal and it seems to work out just fine for him. Of course, he also knows what he's doing, and me, not so much! LOL!

    I will certainly take your advice and pick up some higher gauge wire, and in the meantime, I'll take your suggestion and try the 8 wrap single coil around a 2.4mm drill bit. And I'll also reduce the amount of wicking material.

    Now with the single coil you suggested, what wattage should I set the iPV at?

    THANK YOU!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. LVixen

    LVixen Full Member Verified Member

    Jul 5, 2015
    Oh wow, that's really interesting! I've heard really good things about the Dark Horse too. So what gauge and ID were you using with that build?
     
  10. Darth Omerta

    Darth Omerta Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2015
    I just edited my post to include that. I prefer around 8-10 wraps with that guage and ID.
     
  11. LVixen

    LVixen Full Member Verified Member

    Jul 5, 2015
    Got it! I may just have to try that. I'm pretty much willing to try ANY freakin' thing coz I'm about to pull my hair out! I just can't get this to work! LOL!
     
  12. stevegmu

    stevegmu Moved On ECF Veteran

    You are new and using an 'advanced' set up and don't say anything about an ohm meter, just calculator...
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Darth Omerta

    Darth Omerta Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2015
    Have you read Baditudes blog called Ohms Law For Dummies? Dont worry Im not implying you're a dummy or anything. I read it a few times when I was starting out to get a good grasp on Ohms Law and how it relates to vaping. The analogy he uses of the water wheel is EXTREMELY helpful not only for understanding but if you're able to read between the lines a bit it can help with thinking through exactly what kind of cloud your build might produce. Hope it helps.

    (14) Ohm's Law for Dummies (Vapers) | E-Cigarette Forum
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Wolfenstark

    Wolfenstark Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 1, 2014
    Perth , Australia
    I have some 24g but find it not that suitable for the mech reo Im currently using.
    26 gauge for me is much more suitable for the resistance and wraps I like.
    Most of Rips builds with the 24g I suspect are single coil builds , probably 6.5 wraps single at 0.6Ω.
    The time to heat up the 24g is long and then long time to cool down , I haven't used max vg juices , vg around 65% so max vg may not be liking the amount of wire and heat your getting in most of your builds.
    I'd get some 26 gauge or if want to stay with the 24gauge then just try a single coil say 5.5 / 6.5 wraps 2.5mm.
    Make sure below your coils is free of cotton for good air flow.
    After you've build your coils and tested them , give them a scrape with a flat screw driver along the wraps if they are not glowing evenly from the inside out or if you get any hot legs. Then juice up the wick and give some test fires to see how things are going.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. GrandSam

    GrandSam Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 12, 2013
    Oceanside, CA, USA
    Your cotton looks like it is being suffocated. Try using a tad less. You should be able to slide the cotton in and out of the coil with minimal resistance. That does not mean that the cotton should slide out with ease, there should be a bit of resistance. If your mod moves while you slide the cotton out, there's too much. If the cotton doesn't rub against the coil as you slide it out, there is too little. Look for a happy medium.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. f1vefour

    f1vefour Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 3, 2013
    Pensacola
    Unless you're vaping 100+ watts I would suggest 27g wire (which can still do 100 watts), heat up/cool down will be much quicker which helps prevent burnt hits. In your pics that is too much cotton, 90+VG can't wick through that mass quick enough.

    I also suggest at least trying rayon for wicking, more heat tolerance and better flavor (to a lot of people).

    You don't need dual coils to chuck clouds. Try single coil and see what you think if your atomizer supports single coil mode.

    Keep inhaling for a second after releasing the button on your mod, it helps tremendously with cooling and keeping the coil from fouling.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. LVixen

    LVixen Full Member Verified Member

    Jul 5, 2015
    Just because I didn't mention my ohm meter does not mean I don't have (and use) one. My original post really had more to do with wicking (I THOUGHT that was the problem at the time), and that's why I didn't really mention the ohm meter.

    Also, are you familiar with the steam-engine calculator website? If you plug in your material/equipment, it'll provide you with more information than you could ever need! Including resistance and much, much more.

    In addition, as I mentioned in my original post, I have the iPV3 which gives me the resistance of my build as soon as I screw the RDA on to the box mod, so yeah, I check my resistance in 3 different ways. :thumbs:

    Hi Darth!

    I haven't read the particular blog/post that you mentioned, but I'm pretty familiar with the general concept of voltage pushing current/amperage through resistance, and all the equations which determine volts, current, resistance, as well as power. But I'll definitely check out that blog because I really could learn more about how all of that relates to vaping. Thanks so much!!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. LVixen

    LVixen Full Member Verified Member

    Jul 5, 2015
    Hi there, Wolfenstark!

    Yes, I see that a recurring recommendation here has been to try a single coil as opposed to dual when using 24g kanthal, so I'll definitely be trying that! And yes, I do leave room directly below the coils for air flow, and I also scrape the coils and inspect for hot spots/leads.
    Thank you for your input!

    Hi GrandSam!

    At this point I'm not really sure that the wicking is the problem anymore, because as I mentioned in my original post, I've tried less cotton, more cotton, shorter wicks, longer wicks, thinner wicks, fatter wicks, looser wicks, tighter wicks, and nothing has made a significant difference as far as the burnt hits go.

    But I'll be sure to use less cotton when I wick the single coil build I'm gonna wrap tonight. Thanks so much for your input!!:)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Darth Omerta

    Darth Omerta Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2015
    @LVixen

    I figured you had a pretty good grasp on the concept but i read that blog just before i posted my comment and remembered about his analogy of the water wheel. I really like that analogy for some reason and it helped me understand better why its sometimes better to build .8 and up on your rda.

    And i mean better for flavor and proper vapor production. Not to mention that its safer too.
     
  20. GrandSam

    GrandSam Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 12, 2013
    Oceanside, CA, USA

    Hm, that's a tough one then. Have you tried a different juice? Something with less VG (a 70vg/30pg blend). Due to the high viscosity of 90%VG juice, the cotton may have a difficult time wicking the juice. Ideally, you would take a puff, exhale, then take another puff, by which point the juice will have traveled from the tail of the cotton, up to the center where it comes in contact with the coil. With high viscosity (high VG) juices, this poses an issue, since the juice could take a tad longer to travel up and to the coil.
     
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