Vaping nicotine as a never-smoker, why not?
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Nicotine - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects | Examine.com
This is one of my favorite sites when dealing with any type of supplement as they relate to health implications. Check it out (although it's still "in-progress" and the research is still being compiled). Check the Human Effect Matrix.
That site is huge, so some pages kinda stay "in-progress" as more research becomes available.
This is one of my favorite sites when dealing with any type of supplement as they relate to health implications. Check it out (although it's still "in-progress" and the research is still being compiled). Check the Human Effect Matrix.
That site is huge, so some pages kinda stay "in-progress" as more research becomes available.
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This is my understanding, simplified as much as possible, of the state of knowledge of "nicotine addiction"...
1. I think it is indisputable that cigarette smoking leads to intense dependence of *something*
2. There is a lot of evidence that nicotine is the culprit, of course, because nicotine has always eased the pain of smoking cessation, in whatever form it's done (and FDA approved or not). Another duh moment.
3. There is also a huge amount of evidence that it is far more than nicotine. Words you will rarely if ever hear: "I just quit smoking and I am totally relaxed and comfortable with my NRT/Vaping replacement". No, what you hear is something to the effect "yes, the nicotine helps, but there is something seriously missing, I'm still craving cigs and I'm a basket case".
(I'll admit that some people claim to start vaping and make it sound like it was easy peasy but I'm not inside their brain and easy peasy can be relative, plus we all seem to experience the various dependencies differently. So maybe I need to modify my "rarely if ever"?)
4. A number of studies have been done where people were given essentially NRT products to infuse smoking levels of nicotine in their bloodstreams. This for periods of 6-9 months. My understanding is that it is a fact that NONE, ZERO, of these hundreds of subjects reported withdrawal at the end of the study when their nicotine was discontinued. That, I think, is conclusive proof, as best we could have at this time, that nicotine, by itself, does not create dependency within a 6-9 month period of regular use.
5. It has been argued here, by people that I personally have no respect for, that inhaling nicotine will have a different outcome. Supposedly due to the greater speed of absorption by the lungs. I have no respect for them because I have seen them argue anything, for the sake of argument, to advance an opinion that is not backed up with any facts at all. BUT...
6. Keeping an open mind, and not wanting to diss a message based on my feelings about the messenger, let's accept the possibility that inhalation is different.
(I do not buy the inhalation theory, short of actual evidence, because it is my understanding that the majority of nicotine absorbed while vaping is done through the mouth, nose and throat tissues, not the lungs. This is very often discussed here, and I assume that to be true. If it is true, then Nicotine Gum and Lozenges would have the same basic effect as vaping since the nic from the gum is absorbed through the same mouth, gum and throat tissues. The effect of the less effective lung absorption *shouldn't* make much difference, but our lab rats will prove that one way or the other)
I will also add that I've seen nic gum users talk about the "fast hit" they get from the gum, and my long experience with nic gum was similar. In my experience there is no faster and deeper "nic hit", aside from smoking, than chewing a tab of 4mg nic gum.
Now we are left with our lab rats, in the form of never smoking vapers, to basically test the following two theories:
1. Nicotine, by itself, might create dependencies over longer periods of time (many years) than the studies covered. And, in theory at least, the studies I mention were not intended to test dependencies, they were testing for neurological benefits. But if nicotine likes to form dependencies, outside of tobacco use, it shouldn't care about the motives of the people that organized the studies
2. Test the "inhalation theory" I mentioned in #5.
Now, as I understand things, in fact there is a great body of experimental evidence concerning long term use of nicotine sans tobacco, in the form of long term never smoking users of NRTs. NRTs have been over the counter since 1996, 19 years now. As best I understand it, although there may be a few isolated cases reported, few if any never smoking users of NRTs have been reported to have significant dependencies.
If I am correct in my facts above, there is not a whole lot (new) to test here, there is 19 years of experimental data out there. But if my facts are wrong, let's discuss that.
Neat article. Yes, increases dopamine. Therein lies the addiction.
Me too. First two years of vaping I kept having that phantom smoke smell like someone was smoking it my house. I have never smoked it nor has anyone else the 15 years we have been here. It was mainly first thing in the morning and when I would lay in bed watching TV before I fell asleep. I would even ask my wife if she smelled it. The cravings died down about a year and half in once I bought some wta and added it to some diy. I used the wta about a month and the died down considerably.
I also do not vape in the house as the clouds my wife and kids do not like. I respect that.
My last cigar was 2 months ago. I have always said they would have to pry a cigar from my dying hands. Apparently they won't have to now. My reasons for not having one is choice. I would rather my fancy be around me instead of running for the bomb shelter when I light one up.
I really hope one day I am off the vape, but I am the kinda guy that rolls with the punches life gives me. If it happens it happens. Mainly because I despise charging batteries, cleaning atties, rolling coils and diy. Flipping a smoke in the mouth and lighting it was sooo much easier.
I don't frown on people smoking, vaping or whatever poison they so choose. My family and friends are different and will gladly give them my opinions. Life is short instead of worrying about when I meet my maker I choose to enjoy the short journey we have. Smoking/vaping may make it a bit shorter but helps me enjoy the roses and crap along the way.
I had a buddy at work who quit smoking for quite a while, started vaping, fount it too difficult and not so satisfying, so started smoking again... I imagine a never smoker vaper may react the same way. They get the taste, but not enough,get frustrated with the cloud setup they were encouraged to start off with on here, so go onto cigarettes. In all likelihood they would have smoked anyway, though...
There are plenty of prescriptions which increase dopamine levels, as well... For some to think doctors are going to start prescribing vaping for medical benefits is silly. Doctors believe in controlled doses, not- 'sub ohm vape 20ml of 6gm/ml every day...'
Here's what gets me with this scenario. I have been in this situation. My tank leaked out and I did not have a spare. The gas station sells disposables. Instead of a pack of smokes, I bought 2 disposables. Sur e it was more money and the packs of smokes were looking good. They weren't as good as my kayfun and vt40. They did the job.
Even addiction to love can be dangerous. Why I try to practice moderation in everything I do. Sometimes the human being in me gets the best of me and I may have more beer than I should but Uber helps my wife and I in those situations.
I take the Libertarian angle on it. It's your body and your life. You have every right to do as you wish with either as long as you don't impinge on the rights and welfare of others. Seeing nicotine as no worse than caffeine I think you should just go for it. I mean let's be real about it, it's not like vaping is the gateway to smoking, in fact, it's been quite the opposite for countless vapers, including myself.
I'm sorry but I'm missing your point here. Do you need me to point you to the neurological studies? Or do you refuse to believe them simply because they don't fit your world view?
My guess is the makers of nic gum and patches sponsored the studies...
You agree with what? Yourself since you posted the prior 3 replies? Since there is no explicit threading here, it helps to quote a reply, especially if your reply is 3 words or less.
So it's a "neat article" that also said "Addiction is not inherent to nicotine, as is evidenced by nicotine therapy being used to curb cigarette addictions."
It's a site I thought would be of use for having compiled (and is compiling) studies as they pertain to specific health issues. Well, maybe someone will find it useful.
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I am strictly speaking of never smokers who vape. .
I do not think a never smoker would react that way as they have never had the addiction to the crap in analogs. Not to mention most never smokers are not going to like the taste of an analog or the smell it leaves lingering on everything.
Of the never smokers who vape that I know none use tobacco like flavors.
Everyone who has smoked started out as a never smoker...
I think vaping can be addictive, whether one was a smoker or not...
If someone hasn't smoked in 5 years but chews a pack of nic gum a day are they addicted to the nic gum?
LOL... so your argument is baseless and fact-less, and you believe anyone cares?
They actually do imply there is some dependency related to nicotine, but they have a very strange test for it:
"Rates of dependence on the nicotine replacement therapies were judged by how many persons were still using 3 weeks after the trial ended "
I always thought the measure of dependence is not the mere fact someone uses something in order to derive some benefit from it. The measure is in what happens when you take it away from them.
If you gave me Devil Dogs during the course of a study, and I kept buying them on my own after the study was over, it might just be because I like them. A lot. But it would not be proof of a dependency, by any definition I'm aware of. (and I did not see anything to the effect that the NRTs were or were not made available, for free, after the study, for whatever that might matter)
If they did smoke, ever, and especially if they started chewing nic gum as a cessation method, then that is totally irrelevant to this discussion on the dependency affect to never smokers. Why does this point have to be made, repeatedly? Can we not even agree that the experiences of smokers or ex smokers is irrelevant to never smokers?
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