VaporChase Review - SmokTech 2.5ohm DCT carto (and what it all means)

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Nomoreash

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Can we make this mandatory for people to watch before they purchase their first first vv. It sure would avoid headaches for those that insist on using LR with VV.

Awesome job and explanation, I'm sure it's going to get many views. I know I'm putting it on my link list for reference to save a lot of typing.
 

Mindfield

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Can we make this mandatory for people to watch before they purchase their first first vv. It sure would avoid headaches for those that insist on using LR with VV.

Awesome job and explanation, I'm sure it's going to get many views. I know I'm putting it on my link list for reference to save a lot of typing.

Nice work Mindfield.

Thanks! Yeah, seeing people still using LR on a VV or HV device is pretty much why I wanted to explain this in the video, because it didn't really make sense to me why anyone would want to other than by force of habit when upgrading from eGos and 3.7V mods and such and not really knowing any better.
 

Mindfield

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Dual Coils are such strange things, in practice I vape the 1.5 at 5v...this is giving me 8ish watts per coil and while its probably more vapor than a 3 ohm boge at 5v its not twice the vapor, Certainly not twice the heat.

Well, the "twice the vapor" thing is in ideal conditions of course, but as DCCs use up juice, the top coil generally dries out first and the vapor drops so it's not an exact science by any means. Also keep in mind that 1.5ohms @ 5V is pulling 3.3A from the battery. Unless you're using an IMR battery (and presuming the switch on your mod can handle the load), there's a good chance that the internal resistance of the battery you're using may not be able to supply that much instantaneous current, so you may not actually be getting all 8.3 watts per coil like you think you should be.
 

Goldenkobold

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I am using a 5v pass through but I just checked and it is only rated for 3 amps. Not sure how that is affecting it probably vaping it at slightly less than perfect. I hear the new Saber touch has a 5amp option for these so you can get 4.7v under load with a 1.5 or you could get a Darwin for 5v on the 1.5....honestly these things are just too much trouble, in my opinion. I would rather vape a 2 ohm boge at 4.2 than these dual coils at 4.7.

I suppose a 7.2v li-ion mod would have no problem running the 2.5 ohm dual coils amp wise?
 

Mindfield

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I am using a 5v pass through but I just checked and it is only rated for 3 amps. Not sure how that is affecting it probably vaping it at slightly less than perfect. I hear the new Saber touch has a 5amp option for these so you can get 4.7v under load with a 1.5 or you could get a Darwin for 5v on the 1.5....honestly these things are just too much trouble, in my opinion. I would rather vape a 2 ohm boge at 4.2 than these dual coils at 4.7.

I suppose a 7.2v li-ion mod would have no problem running the 2.5 ohm dual coils amp wise?

Well, it isn't just the rating of the switch but also the internal resistance of the battery you have to be concerned with. If the battery's internal resistance isn't low enough to deliver all 3 of those amps then you're not going to get that. Using an IMR or similar high drain battery then you will though. The switch rating just means that it can handle that much instantaneous power coursing through it without frying.

I don't really see it as being too much trouble, it's just a matter of keeping the electronics involved in mind. And yes, a stacked battery configuration will handle higher amperage much better than a single battery with a booster circuit, just as long as the switch can handle the current too.
 

Slurp812

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I don't totally agree. In order to get higher voltages at the carto, more current must be drawn from the battery. Knowing ohms law, and setting the different cartos for the same power will (aside from the voltage boost circuits efficiency) draw the same average amount of power from the battery. The difference , I believe is the heat is spread out across more turns of wire, or in the case of DCC's across two separate coils. For example, say we have 3 cartos. a 1.5, a 3.0, and a DCC 2.0. and all are made with the same size wire. And we drive all of them to 8 watts. And for this example lets assume the 1.5 has 3 coils, the 3 ohm has 6 coils, and the 2 4's in the 2 ohm dcc have 4 each. Now the 1.5 heating element is the shortest of course, and has all of the power (heat) in a very small area. And the opposite end of this example, the DCC 2 ohm not only has longer coils, but 2 of them. A total of 8 turns, laid out in different areas of the carto, thus heating more e-juice, but not as hot in a small area as the 1.5. I believe this would have an effect on the vapor, as well as the taste. What I have also found, is the LR cartos having higher heat in a smaller area tend to get that burnt taste sooner. And in the case of the DCC, the hear is spread out across more coils and can be cranked to more wattage total before getting that burnt taste. Looking at the limits of the ProVari, 2.5 amps, and 6.0 volts, we can calculate the best carto resistance for the highest power, and it comes out to 2.4 ohms. which does make the 2.5's the best you can get for the most output. And dual coils allows you to spread the heat across more area. IMHO....
 

Mindfield

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I don't totally agree. In order to get higher voltages at the carto, more current must be drawn from the battery. Knowing ohms law, and setting the different cartos for the same power will (aside from the voltage boost circuits efficiency) draw the same average amount of power from the battery. The difference , I believe is the heat is spread out across more turns of wire, or in the case of DCC's across two separate coils. For example, say we have 3 cartos. a 1.5, a 3.0, and a DCC 2.0. and all are made with the same size wire. And we drive all of them to 8 watts. And for this example lets assume the 1.5 has 3 coils, the 3 ohm has 6 coils, and the 2 4's in the 2 ohm dcc have 4 each. Now the 1.5 heating element is the shortest of course, and has all of the power (heat) in a very small area. And the opposite end of this example, the DCC 2 ohm not only has longer coils, but 2 of them. A total of 8 turns, laid out in different areas of the carto, thus heating more e-juice, but not as hot in a small area as the 1.5. I believe this would have an effect on the vapor, as well as the taste. What I have also found, is the LR cartos having higher heat in a smaller area tend to get that burnt taste sooner. And in the case of the DCC, the hear is spread out across more coils and can be cranked to more wattage total before getting that burnt taste. Looking at the limits of the ProVari, 2.5 amps, and 6.0 volts, we can calculate the best carto resistance for the highest power, and it comes out to 2.4 ohms. which does make the 2.5's the best you can get for the most output. And dual coils allows you to spread the heat across more area. IMHO....

First, you don't need more turns of wire, just a different gauge of wire. 28AWG rather than 32AWG, for example, to increase the resistance. Lower gauge wire also means hardier wire that can stand up to more punishment at higher voltages.

More importantly, there seems to be some confusion here about how current and resistance works.

First, you have to understand that electricity wants to get from point A to point B by the most efficient means possible -- the path of least resistance, as you're taught in first year Electronics. (Or at least, we were in high school.) Second, you also have to understand that, for electricity flowing through a conduit, heat is actually a waste product. It's energy lost to the current's attempt to make it from A to B.

The key word in the above paragraph is resistance. The lower the resistance of the conduit, the smoother the ride for the electrons travelling through it. No resistance wire (which is used in making some coils) has, as the name suggests, no resistance. (Well, it does, just very little; to get absolutely no resistance you need a superconductor.) Electrons just shoot through that stuff like greased lightning. (Bad pun. Terribly sorry.) But when you raise the resistance, the electrons have a harder time getting from A to B -- the conduit is resisting the electrons' attempts to get from one end to the other. In doing so, the electrons lose energy. Where does the energy go? It's lost as heat.

So low resistance atties and cartos provide low resistance. (said Captain Obvious.) Meaning electrons shoot through those things pretty easily, which means not a lot of energy is lost as heat. But for our purposes, we want heat, and the only place we can get that is by pulling more power from the battery. (Technically that's not correct; they don't exactly pull power, they complete a circuit that lets the battery push power to the carto. But that's not really important here.) More electrons being shoved through that low resistance wire at once creates more heat.

Problem is, that's not a very efficient way of making heat. If you raise the resistance, you need to draw less current to produce the same heat because the higher resistance wire makes it much harder for the current to make it from A to B, which means a lot of energy from the electrons making that more difficult journey is lost as heat. However, it takes less current from the battery to produce the same heat through higher resistance wire than it does through low resistance wire -- you don't need as many electrons being shoved through the wire at once because making the trip more difficult for them is more efficient at making them waste energy (and therefore create heat) than trying to pack more of them through a path of low resistance at once through increased current.

I hope that made sense.
 
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Slurp812

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No confusion about resistance at all. The confusion is in the regulation. You can't get 5 volts form a 3.7 volt battery for free. Lets just assume for an example here, that the regulator circuit is 100% efficient. I have a 2 ohm carto, and a 3 ohm. Now I want to dissipate 8 watts in both of them, with the same VV. Ok, battery under load is 3.7. My 2 ohm carto will need 4 volts applied to dissipate 8 watts, so the boost circuit will will have to make up for it. If as I said, it is 100% efficient, then to get 8 watts from the 3.7 volt battery, I must draw more current (2.16216 amps ) to boost the voltage up to 4 @ 2 amps. Now for the 3 ohm carto. I would need 4.89898 volts to get exactly 8 watts. Even tho this would be only 1.63299 amps through the carto, The 3.7 volt battery would still have to supply the same 8 watts to the boost circuit. Which means it must still draw the same 2.16216 amps. I cant get more power @ the carto than the battery is supplying. Of course in reality, the boost circuit isn't 100%v efficient, and the current draw isn't smooth with these types of circuits. The boost circuit draws large current pulses from the battery to induce a large magnetic field in an coil of wire and then and then lets it collapse to induce a higher voltage. Very similar to an old school ignition coil in a car. Large currents in the 12 volt primary induce huge voltages in the secondary but at very low currents. In this example, the pulses will be different, but average current out of the battery will be the same for the same power in the carto.

Oh, and no disrespect to you. I do find the higher ohm DCCs work better on my VV. Im not trying to discredit your video, or anything like that. At least you took the time to make it to help out others. Iv got cameras, and yet still haven't made a video. So thanks!
 
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