Vaporizing loose leaf tobacco

[GivingUp]

With loose leaf vaporizers having improved so much in the past couple of years, I think it's worth discussing the vaporization of tobacco again.

It works. I use the Mighty vaporizer which has adjustable temperature and a premium fine-cut cigarette tobacco with no additives apart from sugar. I do not recommend vaporizing tobacco that is not clear about its ingredients.

On its own, the tobacco is best vaped at 145-165 degrees C which is satisfying, but produces little visible vapour. I like to use the included liquid pad on top of the tobacco with some home mixed 20% VG 80% PG liquid. At 170 degrees C, this vapes really nice and smooths out the pure tobacco hit. Previous attempts described on the internet are often with fixed temp vaporizers (180 degrees C) and no e-liquid, which may explain why it hasn't caught on.

The main advantage of vaping tobacco? The lung hit. Far more satisfying than e-liquid and close enough to actual smoking to make it a viable path to giving up for those smokers that just aren't satisfied with the vapour from e-cigs. It's certainly a revelation for me. Tobacco manufacturers are working on all sorts of heat-not-burn solutions themselves, but the advantage of using actual tobacco is you have control of the quality of the tobacco itself, knowing it is free of additives and not having to buy plastic or disposable refills which they will no doubt charge too much for.

It was worth the investment for me.

 

[Dougiestyle]

When a fiberous material is placed in contact with a great enough heat, combustion occurs. With whole leaf tobacco, which is dried through the curing process, I don't believe there is enough moisture to vaporize. I think what is actually occurring is called smoking.

I have a wind-proof lighter that has no flame. It is battery operated. It heats a coil similar to what is in an atty. When the coil makes contact with a traditional combustible cigarette, the cigarette does not vaporize. Same concept.

 

[GivingUp]

It is easy to humidify tobacco - American Spirit themselves provide advice on keeping moisture in the tobacco so it doesn't dry out. There is no atomizer in the Mighty. It is a mostly a convection vaporizer with some conductive functionality. It is a proven concept with other 'dried materials'. While your response sounds scientific, can you expand on why you think tobacco would combust when hot air at 170 degrees C is blown past it? And why there is no residual smoke in the room where I do it? Combustion of tobacco produces smoke, right?

 

[Dougiestyle]

Maybe I'm wrong. Enjoy your method of inhaling nicotine. I'm not a brain scientist or rocket surgeon. Whatever works for you. I know my VG/PG nicotine liquid won't dry out and combust lol.

 

[GivingUp]

Thanks for clarifying. BTW, this isn't a criticism of e-cigs, which I think are nothing short of a health revolution. As I mentioned above, I use a VG/PG mix to enhance my experience thanks to this awesome invention and I have tried various kinds of ecig since the first cartomisers were being imported into the UK. But they never quite hit the spot and I'm not a fan of the intrusive flavours of e-liquids, so vaping actual tobacco is a perfect solution for me (and I hope others who are looking to give up).

 

[OhTheAgony]

I've been doing this in my first gen Arizer Solo on it's lowest setting for ages. I prefer the taste and ease of use of e-liquid personally though, plus it takes a thorough cleaning to get the tobacco taste out of the vape and glass stems when you want to vape other chamomile, eucalyptus, and mint type herbs in it. But it'll work.

 

[crxess]

Thanks for clarifying. BTW, this isn't a criticism of e-cigs, which I think are nothing short of a health revolution. As I mentioned above, I use a VG/PG mix to enhance my experience thanks to this awesome invention and I have tried various kinds of ecig since the first cartomisers were being imported into the UK. But they never quite hit the spot and I'm not a fan of the intrusive flavours of e-liquids, so vaping actual tobacco is a perfect solution for me (and I hope others who are looking to give up).

While I understand they work for you, Congratulations on the change. I personally want, wanted to get completely away from Tobacco.
First it was a Mindset in my battle to break a 45+yr habit. Later it became a choice as I truly do NOT like Tobacco Flavor. Even as a Smoker, I hated the Smoke from the opposite end of a cigarette. It was strong, irritating and at times, nauseating.

I just do not experience that with a Nice Cappuccino or New Orleans King Cake.

For me - Nicotine is the only link left to break between myself and Tobacco.

 

[MMW]

Welcome to ecf! Very interesting post!
A lot of folks vape different ways, so this would interest some im sure. And to me that's the beauty of it, different strokes for different folks.

I can only speak for myself here, but the only thing that I still enjoy from a vape that I did when I smoked is a little throat hit/nicotine. My draw isn't the same, the flavor isn't the same, temperature and volume of vapor isn't the same. FOR ME, all this is different by choice with a purpose to not try and replicate my previous actions to a tee. Personally I'm not interested in tobacco anymore.

Are you doing this solely now instead of liquids?

 

[sparkky1]

Thanks for clarifying. BTW, this isn't a criticism of e-cigs, which I think are nothing short of a health revolution. As I mentioned above, I use a VG/PG mix to enhance my experience thanks to this awesome invention and I have tried various kinds of ecig since the first cartomisers were being imported into the UK. But they never quite hit the spot and I'm not a fan of the intrusive flavours of e-liquids, so vaping actual tobacco is a perfect solution for me (and I hope others who are looking to give up).

If pure nicotine and "tobacco flavor" is what you seek there are better risk reduction products on the market

I'm not sure if your aware of WTA (whole tobacco alkaloids ) ejuice but maybe it's something worth trying for yourself, there are several post on the forum explaining it.
Basically what your doing is taking a tobacco leaf, that you don't even know has had toxic pesticides sprayed onto it or not, totally ( un-purified ) and igniting it, smoke by definition has water particles in it, so in a sense you are vaporizing but your still inhaling the rest of the ingredients of smoke ( tar / carbon monoxide ) causing blockage of the ventricle / arteries ( hypoxia ), of which my or any pulmonologist specialist could probably explain it better to you,
might wanna get those lung's checked out buddy, living on a breather sucks ............

 

[GivingUp]

Thanks for the replies. It's great that we get to discuss our various approaches as we try to extend our lives by moving away from smoking!

It is also important to note in this discussion that the tobacco I am using is NOT being ignited. There is NO combustion. Please take some time to look into convection vaporization because it does not ignite anything and this must surely have impact on the toxins normally created during the combustion process (i.e. eliminating or reducing them to some extent). I'm not saying vaping tobacco is healthy in any way, and with a general lack of information about the contents of tobacco vapour, there is obviously some risk associated, but we should be careful not to misinform users who arrive here after a quick google search. If we're gonna list toxins or describe chemical processes in this thread, we should provide supporting evidence. I've not yet found any useful info on tobacco vapour.

I do take Sparkky's point on pesticides but this could be resolved by ensuring you use organic tobacco.

It's not flavour I'm after here, it's specifically the lung hit. My body seems to recognise and be satisfied by vaporized tobacco where it wasn't from e-liquids (though I've yet to try WTA). Simulation of smoking was why the e-cig was invented in the first place, so as technology develops, I've always been interested in trying to simulate the process as closely as possible. To address the flavour itself, it's not like smoke as such, more like the smell you get from a fresh pack of cigs but in your mouth. Takes a bit of getting used to and would not suit everybody.

In terms of cleaning, using additional e-liquids will definitely mean the cooling chamber on a mighty/crafty will need very regular cleaning. If I was OhTheAgony, I would recommend having spare cooling chambers ($15-20) to swap out for different types of tobacco-style materials but not sure if that's an option on the Arizer Solo.

Another thing I realised is that this has an impact psychologically - I'm not abstaining from anything at all, just changing how I consume it. Like drinking a vegetable smoothie instead of eating them!

 

[GivingUp]

For me - Nicotine is the only link left to break between myself and Tobacco.

Just out of interest, if the simulation aspect is less important to you, is there a reason you use e-cigs over for example, nicotine gum or patches? I guess the flavour and experience of ecigs is something you value over just the nicotine itself?

Are you doing this solely now instead of liquids?

Yep, my KangerTech is now sat unused.

 

[Bad Ninja]

When a fiberous material is placed in contact with a great enough heat, combustion occurs. With whole leaf tobacco, which is dried through the curing process, I don't believe there is enough moisture to vaporize. I think what is actually occurring is called smoking.

I have a wind-proof lighter that has no flame. It is battery operated. It heats a coil similar to what is in an atty. When the coil makes contact with a traditional combustible cigarette, the cigarette does not vaporize. Same concept.

Incorrect.
I've been using herbal vaporizers since about 1998.
Herbal vaporizers use convection heating, which passes heated air through the loose leaf tobacco.
There is no combustion, no ash and no burning.
It does work exactly as it should.
If not for herbal valorisers, we wouldn't have e Cigs.

 

[sparkky1]

Thanks for the replies. It's great that we get to discuss our various approaches as we try to extend our lives by moving away from smoking!

It is also important to note in this discussion that the tobacco I am using is NOT being ignited. There is NO combustion. Please take some time to look into convection vaporization because it does not ignite anything and this must surely have impact on the toxins normally created during the combustion process (i.e. eliminating or reducing them to some extent). I'm not saying vaping tobacco is healthy in any way, and with a general lack of information about the contents of tobacco vapour, there is obviously some risk associated, but we should be careful not to misinform users who arrive here after a quick google search. If we're gonna list toxins or describe chemical processes in this thread, we should provide supporting evidence. I've not yet found any useful info on tobacco vapour.

I do take Sparkky's point on pesticides but this could be resolved by ensuring you use organic tobacco.

It's not flavour I'm after here, it's specifically the lung hit. My body seems to recognise and be satisfied by vaporized tobacco where it wasn't from e-liquids (though I've yet to try WTA). Simulation of smoking was why the e-cig was invented in the first place, so as technology develops, I've always been interested in trying to simulate the process as closely as possible. To address the flavour itself, it's not like smoke as such, more like the smell you get from a fresh pack of cigs but in your mouth. Takes a bit of getting used to and would not suit everybody.

In terms of cleaning, using additional e-liquids will definitely mean the cooling chamber on a mighty/crafty will need very regular cleaning. If I was OhTheAgony, I would recommend having spare cooling chambers ($15-20) to swap out for different types of tobacco-style materials but not sure if that's an option on the Arizer Solo.

Another thing I realised is that this has an impact psychologically - I'm not abstaining from anything at all, just changing how I consume it. Like drinking a vegetable smoothie instead of eating them!

You want throat hit Throat-Hit Nicotine - Vapers Tek
UnFlavored Nicotine E-Liquid Base

 

[sparkky1]

Incorrect.
I've been using herbal vaporizers since about 1998.
Herbal vaporizers use convection heating, which passes heated air through the loose leaf tobacco.
There is no combustion, no ash and no burning.
It does work exactly as it should.
If not for herbal valorisers, we wouldn't have e Cigs.

I stand corrected my good friend,
BUT what are the main ingredients that you seek from your tobacco vapor ?

 

[GivingUp]

I think this is a good question because the reason I prefer it is unknown at this stage. Without analysis of what is actually in the vapour, it's difficult to know why the particular combination of natural chemicals is so satisfying. WTA definitely sounds like it's closer to actual tobacco, but I'd need to compare them to give my opinion. I do think that once you start entering the realm of that kind of extraction/purification it's an additional process being carried out by unknown persons (i.e. an additional point where contamination could take place) and may not even include the ingredient/s I find so satisfying. I will try it though and feed back.

All I do know is it 'feels' like smoke in the lungs. It bites, like smoke does, but without stinging the throat on the way down. Some less reputable e-liquids I've tried have too much throat hit - much more than actual smoking in fact. It is almost like my body recognises that it's tobacco (I've smoked for nearly 30 years, since my pre-teens).

If anyone reading this thread has resources to actually examine tobacco vapour (!), that would be great to discuss! There are lots of existing discussions around smoking tobacco vs e-cigs, but not comparing tobacco vapour to e-cig vapour.

 

[retired1]

This will remain open as long as the topic remains on the vaporizing of tobacco (which is permitted for discussion here).

Any derailments towards that other stuff, and this will get locked down in a hurry.

Why we don't allow drug talk

 

[crxess]

If we're gonna list toxins or describe chemical processes in this thread, we should provide supporting evidence. I've not yet found any useful info on tobacco vapour.

I'm sure Phillip Morris will soon have all the miss-information anyone could ask for.

Phillip Morris Smokeless Cigarette Not as Safe as E-Cigarettes, Big Tobacco Researcher Says | E-Cigarette Reviews and Rankings

 

[Mr.Mann]

With loose leaf vaporizers having improved so much in the past couple of years, I think it's worth discussing the vaporization of tobacco again.

It works. I use the Mighty vaporizer which has adjustable temperature and a premium fine-cut cigarette tobacco with no additives apart from sugar. I do not recommend vaporizing tobacco that is not clear about its ingredients.

On its own, the tobacco is best vaped at 145-165 degrees C which is satisfying, but produces little visible vapour. I like to use the included liquid pad on top of the tobacco with some home mixed 20% VG 80% PG liquid. At 170 degrees C, this vapes really nice and smooths out the pure tobacco hit. Previous attempts described on the internet are often with fixed temp vaporizers (180 degrees C) and no e-liquid, which may explain why it hasn't caught on.

The main advantage of vaping tobacco? The lung hit. Far more satisfying than e-liquid and close enough to actual smoking to make it a viable path to giving up for those smokers that just aren't satisfied with the vapour from e-cigs. It's certainly a revelation for me. Tobacco manufacturers are working on all sorts of heat-not-burn solutions themselves, but the advantage of using actual tobacco is you have control of the quality of the tobacco itself, knowing it is free of additives and not having to buy plastic or disposable refills which they will no doubt charge too much for.

It was worth the investment for me.

Hmmm . . . I am interested, but I don't know about keeping tobacco on hand. Kinda tricky. Thanks for the write-up.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I think this is a good question because the reason I prefer it is unknown at this stage. Without analysis of what is actually in the vapour, it's difficult to know why the particular combination of natural chemicals is so satisfying. WTA definitely sounds like it's closer to actual tobacco, but I'd need to compare them to give my opinion. I do think that once you start entering the realm of that kind of extraction/purification it's an additional process being carried out by unknown persons (i.e. an additional point where contamination could take place) and may not even include the ingredient/s I find so satisfying. I will try it though and feed back.

All I do know is it 'feels' like smoke in the lungs. It bites, like smoke does, but without stinging the throat on the way down. Some less reputable e-liquids I've tried have too much throat hit - much more than actual smoking in fact. It is almost like my body recognises that it's tobacco (I've smoked for nearly 30 years, since my pre-teens).

If anyone reading this thread has resources to actually examine tobacco vapour (!), that would be great to discuss! There are lots of existing discussions around smoking tobacco vs e-cigs, but not comparing tobacco vapour to e-cig vapour.

Sorry to show my bias, but if you buy WTA, get it from Aromaejuice (get the unflavored WTA). AeJ was trained by the original creator of WTA, and he is well known here and is a chemist. @Dvap

 

[crxess]

History of the Electronic Cigarette