Vv/vw mods vs mech mods

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Matt Marshall

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Feb 21, 2015
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So I've been vaping for about 6 weeks now (off the analogues for 4) and I think I'm obsessed. Started with a ego style battery lasted about a week before I went out and bought the istick30w and aspire nautilus mini. I'm now jnterested in sub ohming and planning on buying a kanger subtank mini but I've also found myself obsessing over mods, mainly mech mods some of the customisation I've seen round the forum is off the chain. My question is would it be worth my while to purchase one or just stick with the istick? What are the real benefits of a mech mod other than looking smart as ....!!?
 

RandyF

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The only real advantage with mechs is there is no electronics to break, but not having electronic protection can also be it's biggest downfall, as we all have seen in the news recently. They work great with a fresh battery, but after the first fire your vape will get progressively weaker with each subsequent fire. It is not a bad idea to have one around occasional use, or as a sure fire backup, but they are not practical as an ADV, though MANY people will disagree with that.

Also, if you do get one, stay away from the hybrid style, at least until you completely understand why they are so dangerous and why tanks like the ST series on them is not a good idea.
 

Susan~S

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Keep this in mind with regards to using your subtank on a mech mod.

On a freshly charged battery your 1.2Ω coil will give you 14.7 watts. The 0.5Ω coil will give you 35.28 watts. One is most likely under powered the other over powered.

In this scenario, you can't adjust to find your "sweet spot".
 

State O' Flux

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So I've been vaping for about 6 weeks now (off the analogues for 4) and I think I'm obsessed. I'm now jnterested in sub ohming and planning on buying a kanger subtank mini but I've also found myself obsessing over mods, mainly mech mods some of the customisation I've seen round the forum is off the chain. My question is would it be worth my while to purchase one or just stick with the istick? What are the real benefits of a mech mod other than looking smart as ....!!?

The practical applications of heat flux, wire gauge, parallel wire count & net resistance as they relate to... the simplicity of a mech mod vs. the independent wattage control of regulated mod.

In simpler terms... the Ohm's law limitations of mechs vs. the ability to "force" wattage with an APV... as it effects user vaping performance / satisfaction.

I'll keep this relatively short. If you've read my Steam Engine User Guides - parts 1 and 2... then you (probably) have a good handle on the fine tuning aspects of your builds.

This is for those who may be on the fence about mechs and APVs in general, or those considering a first time purchase of a high wattage APV.
It might even be handy for complete noobs, with little to no understanding of Ohm's law, wire selection and so in. For those folks, start with the "Advanced Education" article, and proceed in what ever direction suits you.
______________________________________________

Trust me when I tell you, although I'm a true lover of mech mods... in actual fact, if you don't give a crap about the "battery holder"simplicity (and "style"?) that mechs provide... the high-output, regulated APV is the way to go...if you want more build freedom than Ohm's law will allow.

Without independent regulation, a battery will discharge wattage/amperage at a rate determined by net resistance and voltage.

For wattage ("Power") the formula is V² ÷ Ω = P
For voltage ("Current"), the formula is V ÷ Ω = C.

The calculated wattage doesn't care about your wire gauge or coils in parallel count... just the net resistance and battery voltage.

Heat flux is the coil(s) radiant heat, expressed in milliwatts per millimeter of coil surface area... squared. For our purposes... it's simply how warm you perceive your vape to be.

Heat flux does care about the wire gauge, coils in parallel count and net resistance.

With that out of the way, lets move on to examples. All values are arrived at using the Steam Engine vapist's calculator.

With a mech mod... if you want to run at 0.5Ω with a heat flux of approximately 300 mW/mm² ...
Ohm's law formula calculates this to be a discharge of 35 watts @ 4.2v (and less as the battery voltage diminishes) ...
For a single coil, you must use 24 gauge wire (the thickest you can use), and for dual coils you must use 28 gauge wire. That comes out to 309 & 311 mW/mm² respectively.

With a regulated wattage mod (for consistency, we'll call this a 250 watt output APV) you can use what ever wire and build you want... or at least a broader spread of possibilities.

A 26 gauge dual parallel build at 0.7Ω? No problem... 95 watts will provide 300 mW/mm2 even. With a mech, you simply can't do it (at least, not with 26 gauge - try 30 ga.)... Ohm's law dictates that you will discharge only 25 watts, for a stone cold 39 mW/mm² with 26 gauge wire.

Another example... lets go deep sub-ohm, say 0.2Ω, with a quad parallel 24 gauge build. From a mech mod, Ohm's law dictates 88 watts @ 4.2v.
Run those numbers through Steam Engine, and we get a very cool 121 mW/mm². With a regulated mod, all we need to do is run at 218 watts to obtain our HF of 301 mW/mm².

Can we get 300 mW/mm² from a 0.2Ω, quad parallel 24 gauge build with a mech? Yes, we can. but it can only be done with 27 gauge wire, for a slightly hotter than desired, 345 mW/mm².

So what does all this mean to you? The most important values to the vapist are heat flux, parallel coil count net coil surface area, wire gauge and net resistance.

Secondary values are heat capacity ("lag time" to desired temperature) and leg power loss... which is the percentage of power wasted heating the legs. This last value is based on wire mass/density... the greater the mass, the more energy wasted to the coil legs.

In either case, we want low numbers... and to obtain those low numbers (and good primary values), we need to perhaps use thinner wire than we'd prefer... or possibly a higher net resistance, or a single coil build, when we'd prefer a dual parallel build.

With a regulated mod, you don't have total freedom in the sense that you can do stupid stuff, but... the range of possibilities opens up greatly when you can force wattage above that of the unregulated Ohm's law discharge.

Again... I'm a mech fan. Don't even own a hi-watt regulated mod. Yet.

SoF
 

Baditude

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Pro's for a Regulated Mod:

  • Safety built into the mod via the microprocessor. It will refuse to fire the atomizer if it detects a short, thus saving the battery, mod, and you from blowing up after a short circuit.

  • Power regulation keeps the vape experience the same from the beginning of a fresh battery until the mod stops working from a too low battery. The processor will alert you when the battery is getting low and needs to be replaced.

  • Variable power (via voltage or wattage adjustments) allows you to change the characteristics of your vape by adjusting the power output to the atomizer.

  • Most have built-in atomizer resistance and battery voltage meters, alleviating the need for separate digital multimeter, ohm reader, or battery voltage meters.

Cons for a Regulated Mod:

  • Many have a rather flimsy build quality and may be considered to be vulnerable to breakage from a fall or drop.

  • Always the chance that the electronics may fail, rendering the mod useless to vape.

  • Unless a high wattage regulated mod, it will not fire an atomizer resistance under 1 ohms (either because of processor amp limits or the protective circuitry seeing the low ohms as a short circuit)

Mechanical Mod Pros:

  • Most are built to be more durable, able to withstand some physical abuse.

  • Able to fire sub-ohm coils (<1 ohm).

  • No electrical components to fail.

Mechanical Mod Cons:

  • No built-in protection circuitry. YOU will be responsible for insuring there are no shorts, as a mechanical mod will attempt to fire the atomizer regardless. Short circuits can cause a battery to fail in thermal runaway, causing the battery to vent hot gasses. If the mod has inadequate venting, the mod literally becomes a pipe bomb.

  • Fixed voltage. No way to adjust the vapor except by changing the coil resistance.

  • Many have bottom-firing buttons. I find this to be a design flaw for safety reasons. The weight of a mod and atomizer can be enough to allow the device to autofire when set down, setting up a thermal runaway situation. Some bottom-fire mods have a locking mechanism, but who really sets this each time they set down their mod? A recessed bottom-fire button is a better design; a side fire button is even better.

  • With no processor power regulation, the vape will be strong with a fresh battery and progressively decline as the battery drains. You can over-discharge a battery in a mechanical to the point of battery failure.

______________

If your mod uses external replaceable rechargeable batteries, make sure you are using IMR (Li-Mn) or IMR/hybrid batteries, which are high-drain and safe-chemistry. These have a higher amp limit than protected ICR (Li-ion) batteries, which are now considered to be unsuitable for vaping devices.

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected ICR?


Mechanical Mod Safe Usage Guide
_______________

I use both a mech (Silver Bullet with RDA) and a regulated mod (Provari with Kayfun). I enjoy and use both daily for different reasons. For a relatively new vaper, I recommend using a regulated mod just for the safety factor.
 
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djsvapour

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Oct 2, 2012
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Both is good, and 100% advisable, although I can't see batteries/mods being outlawed in the UK, even if the liquid and tanks are doomed.

There will always be a way around the mods issue (if for some reason??) , even if you can only buy 18650s.

I keep a Nemesis and a Sigelei on my desk, and even a cheap GG clone. With the right resistance coil and some mechs, the anti-e-cig zombies ain't gonna get me.

The tanks over 2ml are definitely doomed, so make sure you have a few Kayfuns or Lemos in your collection.

I can see Aspire and Kanger making some "interesting" tanks in 2016 with a small capacity. Hopefully, those tanks will use the same factory atomizer heads that fit the 3ml-6ml tanks currently on sale.

There will be nothing bigger than 2ml on sale to 750 million Europeans from next year.... unless somebody can stop the EU laws.
 

skull cracker

Full Member
Mar 11, 2015
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12
Nh
I suggest you learn more abought it or ohms law if your not allready familiar, mech mods have advantages but can be unpractical meaning costly ,batteries are not cheap i have 2 ipv mini 30 my first, and a eleaf 50 watt both vv/vw the eleaf is my go to all weekend mod the charge last almost 2 days its not a tank to carry and it can use any tank even the so called 75 -100 watt heads,wich dont need 75 watts to taste good wich some might disagree,you have to ask yourself are you a cloud chaser or you just like a good tasty vape ,its what you want my freind and the last thing you dont care how much you spend,for myself i tend to lean towards practical cost efective and the best bang for my buck ,i almost never make a decision on the spot ,research is a good tool to use in todays social media, with that said my freind happy vaping i hope i was helpful.
 
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skull cracker

Full Member
Mar 11, 2015
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Nh
Very very well explained,maybe you could answer a simple question or questions for me please if you could,im embarking on a okr -10 chip build its rated for 60 watts i would like to run a 3 digit volt meter theres 3 wires red,yellow ,black im using dual 1865s with drain protection its a stacked build ,do i run red wire between fire button and positive 510 pin and black to negative side battery? And yellow just twisted together with red? ,also i have a 1amp charging port,it has negative battery and positive symbols on the board does that go directly to the negative and positive on the sled from the board? Thank you .
 

juggler86

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Feb 1, 2015
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The only real advantage with mechs is there is no electronics to break, but not having electronic protection can also be it's biggest downfall, as we all have seen in the news recently. They work great with a fresh battery, but after the first fire your vape will get progressively weaker with each subsequent fire. It is not a bad idea to have one around occasional use, or as a sure fire backup, but they are not practical as an ADV, though MANY people will disagree with that.

Also, if you do get one, stay away from the hybrid style, at least until you completely understand why they are so dangerous and why tanks like the ST series on them is not a good idea.


The whole vape drops off after a couple hits is such garbage and anybody who uses mechs on the reg knows that. The amount it drops off isnt noticeable for hours unless heavily chain vaping then ya 2 hours.

2nd hybrds are the best and dont take a rocket scientists to use and be safe. Dont use sub tanks and make sure your pin is sticking out and sturdy. Check your post with certain RDAs(plume veil, evem authentics) and make sure theyre not raisjng. It doesnt take alot to understand not to use a flush/sunken pin topper. My 1st mech was a hybrid and all I did was watch youtube. The mech mod "mystique" lol.

If you want a good mech experience for your first time get a Smpl mod and a Magma or Derringer, both have long pins and are safe.
 

Miata GT

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I personally prefer the 'romance' and 'artistry,' if you will, of mechanical mods and use them daily from my REO to my many tube mods. That being said, I believe that with the recent proliferation of very decent higher-powered regulated mods (and tanks to support them) there is not a need to have to go to mech mods for the level of vaping that used to only be available by using them.

I always suggest a regulated mod to a new, or newer, vaper.
 

nyiddle

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Apr 9, 2014
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The whole vape drops off after a couple hits is such garbage and anybody who uses mechs on the reg knows that. The amount it drops off isnt noticeable for hours unless heavily chain vaping then ya 2 hours.

On the contrary, with a .3 ohm build, I could easily drain a fully charged 18650 from 4.2V to 3.7V in 30 minutes.
 
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